Chu Lai Corpsman 1965

[Lynn2]

Also I am a little unclear here on some details.

The BSM was awarded 4 years after the fact? And the HQ people you are dealing with say the letter you have re. your BSM they do not believe as being legit? And no mention of a BSM is in your SRB?

Do I have this in the ball park correct?

Confusing to follow for sure

[doverite06]

Lynn2 - I know it all sounds a little strange to be true but it's the absolute truth. I was actually awarded the medals in May 1969 when I was promoted to E-5 (ten months aftere release from Active Duty. That is why the two awards were a total suprise to me. They wree four years after the actions. Yes, everyting you repeated above actually happened. The basement flood (have confirmation), promotion in 1969 AFTER release, two visits to Aid station never recorded. As far as what I said to the Corpsman, what the hell did I know. Thre were no MAJOR actions going on at that time that I know of but I know there were guys being wounded out thereand I just assumed, compared to mine theirs would be more serious or they wouldn't be at the BAS. Between 1961 there were 1,864 KIA's in Nam and 7,337 WIA's, I'd say the BAS's were busy especially since at that time, they were probably rudimentary set ups. For all I know, nobody could have been there at the BAS, but I knew I didn't need to go. No major offenses at that time. Just small arms skirmishes all over the place. I was on a Search and Destroy to turn back or kill a small band of VC heading for the air field perimeter. At first I didn't send in alot of detail but soon found out everyting I sent them was never any good. So, I got tired of sending in a few docs at a time, plus, I had just located my former Squad Leader (now a Major retired) and he gave me a bunch of info. So, I sent it all in, labeled, with an explanation on each portion and a copy of each page of my record marked in red as to the mistakes. In just eight days, I got back a letter telling me none of it was material. Right now, all I'm trying to do is get my records straightened out. If the TAD assignments had been added and the dates had been correct and the other visits to the aid staton would have been recorded, I figured maybe, just maybe they would begin to think, maybe there is something to this. Yes, the awards were given to me four years late. I know you are aware of the requirements for the PH and it says that you have to have been treated by a "medical officer" and their definition of a medical officer includes a Corpsman. It does not say you have to be treated by a medical Doctor. Believe me, I have checked into all of it and there were many PH's issued to personnel that never went to the BAS. I should have gotten the CAR anyway, but for sure I should have gotten it for my participation in Starlite and the unit also recieved the PUC for Starlite. But I know my unit received it anyway because I was told to purchase one when I got back to the states because I earned it. I wore it on my uniform the entire remainder of my enlistment and it was listed among my awards in a letter a Major wrote for me when I was applying for colleges just before I got out. I'm sure he wouldn't just make it up. The unit I was assigned to in RVN was changed a few times. When we left Okinawa, we were Supply Co., Hq&Svc Bn, 3d Mar Div (Rein) fMF. Soon after arrival in Chu Lai, we became FLSG#1, 3d Svc Bn, 3d Mar Div (Rein) FMF. A couple months later, we were changed to FLSG#2, 3d Svc Bn 3d Mar Div (Rein) FMF. According to my formeer Squad Leader, there was another name change but I don't remember it and it isn't on my record. Three TAD assignments not on my record (two in Nam and one in Little Creek), none of my visists to the aid station on my record, date I left Oki for Nam is not correct and in total conflict with unit rosters. Checked Unit Diaries and I got them all and apparently no one cared about doing them becasue the first thing I could find about my unit was dated December 1965. Did you know that unit diaries were only done piecemeal until June 1965. June 14th is the date of MCO 10something or other signed into affect by the Commandant requiring all units to begin doing unit diaries so they could be used for tactical training purposes at later times. Up until that order, not all units did unit diaries. Most of what I did was when I was on TAD assignments. If my records would have been kept accurately, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now. Believe me, I have had my share of doubters, but if I were making this all up, I wouldn't have been taking a chance all this time (four years) of getting caught. I am an honorable Marine and I served with honor. All I want is my records made whole. It's not even about the awards anymore. One's military records should be accurate, and mine are not. The entire Naval Records Departmetn is in a shambles and they are responsible for the most important records of a veteran's life. It's not only a shame, it's a travesty. As a matter of reading it, my guess is once they label you as a "troublemaker", which I have been and I'm going to continue to be, they don't even read your letters, one page or 150 pages. They asked for documentation and I gave it to them. I also sent them just two pages of my unit rosters showing me in Chu Lai in early March 65 and still there in late Feb 66, both dates in direct conflict with what is on my records. They still sent me the same letter back....more information but NOT MATERIAL. That's the mentality I am up against. Take this where you want and have your doubts if you need to, but all kinds of strange things happend during that war and after, and a lot of it was never even recorded. High ranking officers told me right out that there was so much paperwork, they sometimes never did it. Some threw it away and said it was destroyed or burned up in an atack. One guy even told me he performed an awardable act and his CO told him if he wanted the award, he would have to write up the citation himself and the CO would sign it. Another guy told me that his CO told all his men that if they got wounded it had better be serious or he wasn't going to lt them go the the hospital and there would be no PH because too many PH's make him look bad as a Company Commander. I've been at this for four years, and I've learned an awful lot and believe me, it's not a pretty picture. And to put the top on it, in some instances, especially at records, we Vietnnam vets are still being treated like the unwanted child. I, for one, am not going to stand for it and I will take this to the hights level I can go. Again, thanks for listening and Semper Fi.

[Wyoming]

**** this ****. I hate reading novels. Sorry.

[doverite06]

Doc Green: Sounds like the Corps had all the bases covered but I'm here to tell you that it didn't work that efficiently 100% of the time, especially back in early 65, when the most important thing at that time was defensive ops. We had attempted infilrations through the perimeter to the air field on a regular basis. The first real combat unit to arrive in Chu Lai was the Third Bn, Third Marines and they were so wide spread out, that poges like me had to assume infantry positions. I was a young 19 year old, straight out of boot and scared to death. What did I know about procedure or if it was even being followed. Not a chance that I went up to some officer, or even anyone as high up as a Corporal and asked them , are you sure you are following up on what happened to me or what I did. Back then, a Corporal was Jesus Christ, and a Sergeant was GOD himself. We didn't even look in the direction of an officer. I'm sure the process worked most of the time, well, I may have some doubts bcause of the condition of my records, but I can tell you it didn't work 100% of the time. After my incident, I was still under the impression that no PH's were being given out because Vietnam was still being referred to as a "conflict" and PH's were only given out during war time. Why did it take them four years to come around, you're guess is as good as mine. "Best of Luck, Frank". Yep, that's exactly what I am going to need....LUCK! Semper Fi.

[doverite06]

Sorry BigAlHlmes, but some people want to know the story for whatever reason. Maybe it's because they don't believe me, I don't know. I've always been long winded but I'm one of those guys that believes details are important. It's like Marine Corps Policy, not fully explained, easily misunderstood. I wrote policy and I can tell you thta one word out of place and it can be turned around to bite you in the a$$. Same with stories like this. You can bet someone will pick it to pieces and come after me like a hungry pit bull. It's happened to me before. Don't want to be rude, but if you don't like long stores, all you have to do is click a key on your computer.

[Wyoming]

Sorry BigAlHlmes, but some people want to know the story for whatever reason. Maybe it's because they don't believe me, I don't know. I've always been long winded but I'm one of those guys that believes details are important. It's like Marine Corps Policy, not fully explained, easily misunderstood. I wrote policy and I can tell you thta one word out of place and it can be turned around to bite you in the a$$. Same with stories like this. You can bet someone will pick it to pieces and come after me like a hungry pit bull. It's happened to me before. Don't want to be rude, but if you don't like long stores, all you have to do is click a key on your computer.

Which is exactly what I did, because I forgot the original question anyway, if there was one.

Now look, iffen your SRB is that ****ed up, how long it took this long to try to straighten it out?

[Lynn2]

Frank, are you sure you were not M-I6 or CIA? Because no one but no one could get a PH, a PUC, a BZ with V, and have many details to other units and trips to the BAS and have nothing in their SRB andf a blank medical record. And then have all their records which could prove all of this destroyed in a home flood.

Frank, I do think you believe. But no one else could. (from another site)

"My problem is that because my records have mistakes and omissions, I am being denied the Presidential Unit Citation and the Combat Action Ribbon for my service in Chu Lai Vietnam in 1965-66. I was also awarded the Bronze Star Medal and a Purple Heart for actions in 1965. The awards were not given to me until May of 1969, four years after the actions. I have no other documents except for my original DD-214......

.......Also, I was TAD to 3/3 during Operation Starlite (August 18-19, 1965) and THAT was never put on my record. That is where I earned the BSM (yes "V" authorized. Wounded (fell into punji trap - 8 stitches to right knee) while on Search and Destroy, June 18, 1965. Treated in field by Corpsman. Not on my medical record BUT, two other visits to field hospital for other non-combat injuries also not on my medical record. Records have wrong dates, missing info, two TAD assignments not recorded and several other errors. BSM and PH not awarded until May 1969.......

.....No CAR, No PUC, No BSM, No PH on my record and they (BCNR) refuses to update my DD-214 (DD-215) to reflect these awards, even though I know I rate them. Very unusual circumstances regarding the BSM w/V and the PH. Way too lengthy to explain in this forum. Yes, I think the botXXX XXne is that they don't believe me. I have nothing to show them because all my documents were destroyed in a basement flood. Doc's, along with uniforms, dog tags, all my USMC memorabilia in my sea bags and ruined. Note: I was not in the infantry. My MOS was supply..... Had one TAD assignment while in Little Creek also and that is not on my record either. BSM and PH "citations" were given to me at the same time I was promoted to Staff Sergeant, ten months after release from active duty. "Citations" look more like letters from CMC to presenting officer in Detroit Michigan, so BCNR denying because they don't fit the "standard" format. Medals and certificates given with the "citations/letters" but they (medals and certificates) were in the destroyed sea bags.... after Starlite so I don't know if he ever got a chance to report my BSM actions. Maybe they found something in his records well afterward and that is why the four year delay. Basically, BCNR is (reading between the lines) calling me a fake. Served honorably for four years and honorably for 11 months in Vietnam and promoted to E-6 in one enlistment....

.....TAD's not recorded. Medical record page is BLANK. Nothing recorded in "Combat History" page except "24 May 65 Operations, South Vietnam 11 Feb 66 (wrong dates). Nothing else such as entries about S&D's, patrols, TAD's to other units.... much more to this story, you will be amazed."

[tdrt]

Sorry BigAlHlmes, but some people want to know the story for whatever reason. Maybe it's because they don't believe me, I don't know. I've always been long winded but I'm one of those guys that believes details are important. It's like Marine Corps Policy, not fully explained, easily misunderstood. I wrote policy and I can tell you thta one word out of place and it can be turned around to bite you in the a$$. Same with stories like this. You can bet someone will pick it to pieces and come after me like a hungry pit bull. It's happened to me before. Don't want to be rude, but if you don't like long stores, all you have to do is click a key on your computer.

It's not the fact that it's long, there's no paragraphs so extremely difficult to read.

[doverite06]

Lynn 2: I can see all of this conversation is starting to head in the wrong direction wtih a couple of you guys. This has happened to me before when I simply reachd out for some simple information. The bottom line is, I have my records in hand, and I know what dates I was in Nam and I know what I did. All I'm trying to do is get the facts right. If you have never experienced problems with your records, you wouldn't underestand what I'm talking about nor what I'm going through with BCNR. And to have others express doubts about the whole story simply because it is far fetched, well that is just plain not right. Don't judge until you know all the facts. What you experienced and what your experiences are could very well be different from someone elses. My basement flood was not a simple flood. My basement walls cracke in three places about ten inches wide. It made the front page of the local news paper. All kinds of wierd things happen in life and there are always bleievers and dobters. Apparently Lynn2, you have been to the TWS site. It started the same way there, s simple question trying to locate someone, and one or two a-holes took it upon themselves to questin every detail of my military history. I was not CIA or part of M-I6, whatever that is. I was simply one Marine who arrived in Vietnam before things things became more formal. I look at Vietnam as two different wars. The early years - pre TET and the later years. The guys that served from 67 on were in a real fight. In 65, things were different and there was no real structure. We were mostly on the defensive until Starlite. Plus, you were in Danang...a LONG fifty miles north. It makes a difference. I get the impression you are questioning me and if that's the case, I have enough to deal with in my battle with BCNR. The few documents I was able to come up with were wet but salvagable because they were in a differnt place in my basement. They are musty smelling but readable. Other information I have comes directly from the two people I've been able to locate that I served under, my former NCOIC and my former XO. If you want to ask me legitimate questions or continue this chat in a respectful way, I'll respond. But if you are going to make judgments about me base on facts you don't know, I'd rather end this right now.

[Lynn2]

Frank, what I posted came from the military lawyer site where you asked questions. And what I posed was your words. Not mine-----yours.

But you say you got a BZ with V and that came 4 years after the action and from a long dead officer and now all you have is a letter saying you have a BZ with V but nothing in your SRB. And the people that do this for a living say the letter looks bogus to them.

Do I have this correct? Because understanding what you claim to have happened is not to much to ask.....is it?

[doverite06]

BigAlHolmes: Same goes for you as I said to Lynn2. Don't go making judgments unless you know all the facts. I really don't understand you last statement -

Now look, iffen your SRB is that ****ed up, how long it took this long to try to straighten it out?

If you mean How come it took this long to straighten it out, well the answer to that is IT ISN"T STRAIGHTEND OUT. If you are asking how come it has taken so long to ge around to it, well, I simply got the idea to put together a shadow box in March of 2006 and until that time I had no reason to communicate with BCNR or anyone else. So the first thing (2006) I did was send in my DD-214 and ask that it be updated becaue I knew there were unit citations authorized aafter I got out and I knew I had more than was on my original. PLUS, when they typed up the original, the typed one digit of my Social Security Number wrong. I questioned it at the time but they said it didn't matter and when the clerk was done typing it, he simply took a pen and crossed out the incorrect digit and hand wrote the correct one above it. Even I was smart enough then to know that would cause me problems down the road, but that's the way they left it and would not change it and that, unbeknownst to me, was the beginning of a long string of mistakes I would find when I finally requested my whole SRB once I saw that I had a fight on my hands with BCNR. If you ar eaksing WHEN will it be straightend out, the answer is I don't know, but the way things are going, I am assuming NEVER! But that doesn't mean I'm going to quit harassing them. Someday, this WILL get to the right person and it will all be straightened out.

[doverite06]

Lynn2: I sought that lawyers advise to see if there was any way I could "go after" BCNR. He has not seen my doc's but other lawyers as well as other very high ranking officers have. Yes, they are different than the "standard" (that's what BCNR told me). But I have proven them wrong in every accusation they have made about the format of the "citations". One good reason is that they came four years after the actions. Up until then, I had never even seen a citation so I would have no idea what they look like. I don't know if the Doc who stitched me is alive or dead. I don't even know is name. I know my CO is dead. My XO is alive, but he is unwilling to write a letter about something he is not 100% certain of in his memory. Besides, he did not witness the wound and BCNR won't accept anything but letters from eyewitnesses. Could the report you speak of actuallly have made it to the BAS and was misplaced or lost or whatever and found sometime later causing the four year delay. I can't answer that. I have no idea who recommended me for the award. As far as the BSM is concerned, the CO of 3/3 was Lt. Col. Joe Muir who was KIA less about two to three weeks after Starlite. Did he even get a chance to write something to my CO, who is also deceased? I've read 3/3's unit diaries from that time and Muir talks about alot of things in them before he was killed, but NOTHING administrative. Did the helicopter pilot who said to me "you're going to get a medal for this", write something to Muir and it was found later? Your guess is as good as mine. I don't know the answers. I do know that my former XO should know I was TAD to Starlite, but once again, he won't attest to anything that he cannot actually remember. He told me that was the CO's responsibility and I've found he is deceased. Why do the documents look different? Well, I have to surmise that it is because they were four years late coming and they were sent from CMC to Detroit to be given to me, almost like a gesture of some kind. If you could see them or have seen them, you would know that I could not possibly have produced them as one individual insisits I did. My computer skills are limited to typing letters and this sort of stuff. They have the EGA on them and the words "Unnited States Marine Corps" is curved. I haven't the slightest idea how to do something like that. This is not about the awards anymore as much as it is my records. I know they are incorrect and I want them made whole. If then, my corrected records are able to shed some further light on the awards, then so be it. If not, I will have to live without them But I also rate the PUC and the CAR and because of my records, I am being denied those awards also. All I ask is that you not judge based on a simple question and how strange it might sound or look. I've been down that road and It's not pleasant. You would not believe what this fellow,supposedly brother Marine has done to me and the hardship he has caused me and my family, all based on his own conjecture after serving about four months in Nam in 1970. I am confident the time will come when he will be proven wrong and then we'll see what kind of a man he really is. Will he man up and admit he jumped the gun or will he remain the a$$hole that he is. I am a Marine of honor and integrity. A Marine like him, has no honor.

[doverite06]

tdrt - I'm very literate and I consider myself good at grammer. In a formal letter, I would do it the right way. In this kind of format setting, paragraphing takes up more space and my responses are long enough, without the spacing between paragraphs. I think readers still get the point. Someone on this forum told me if you can't say it in a page or two, then it's not worth it. I have found that short explnations are misunderstood and left to much too wide of an interpretation. Thus, I try to make what I am saying VERY CLEAR.

[Lynn2]

Frank, you did not actually answer my question.

Do you , as you seem to have stated, have an award for a BSM with V that was awarded 4 years after the fact but no documentation in your SRB?

If you can answer that simple question I may have a good idea what happened to your records and why stuff does not show up in them.

[doverite06]

Lynn2: "And the people that do this for a living say the letter looks bogus to them".

Obviously you have not had the pleasure, or should I say displesure of dealing with the people at BCNR and Naval Records...the people who do this for a living. If not, you are in for a real suprise if the day ever comes. These people's heads are so far up their a$$ it's pathetic. We all think they are professionals but I have found out differently. A lot of them are civilians with no military background whatsoever. Others are military retirees who just wanted to work a few more years. A lawyer who had to visit Naval Records in St Louis told me he couldn't believe what he was seeing or hearing. It's a total shambles. Also, so called professionals do make mistakes. Don't tell me you've never seen it happen. Like you, I've been around the block a few times and it's pretty damn discouraging. For example, take for instance our "porfessional politicians". Need I say more. My documents are different but that doesn't mean they are phony. I've asked around and I've been told by other recipients that thier documents are totally different from what is supposed to be the standard. I also spoke with a Navy Cross recipient who told me his "citation" had to be re-done twice before they got it right. The first one had the wrong date and he requested a revised copy. The second came back with the wrong location. He is a WWII veteran and his NC action was on Pelilu and they had it on his citation as Iwo Jima. These are our so called professionals.