M-4 Not Suited For Warfare in Afghan Hills

[Rocky C]

By Slobodan Lekic - The Associated Press
Posted : Friday May 21, 2010 7:42:35 EDT

KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military's workhorse rifle — used in battle for the last 40 years — is proving less effective in Afghanistan against the Taliban's more primitive but longer range weapons.

As a result, the U.S. is re-evaluating the performance of its standard M-4 rifle and considering a switch to weapons that fire a larger round largely discarded in the 1960s.

The M-4 is an updated version of the M-16, which was designed for close quarters combat in Vietnam. It worked well in Iraq, where much of the fighting was in cities such as Baghdad, Ramadi and Fallujah.

But an Army study found that the 5.56mm bullets fired from M-4s don't retain enough velocity at distances greater than 1,000 feet to kill an adversary. In hilly regions of Afghanistan, NATO and insurgent forces are often 2,000 to 2,500 feet apart.

Afghans have a tradition of long-range ambushes against foreign forces. During the 1832-1842 British-Afghan war, the British found that their Brown Bess muskets could not reach insurgent sharpshooters firing higher-caliber Jezzail flintlocks.

Soviet soldiers in the 1980s found that their AK-47 rifles could not match the World War II-era bolt-action Lee-Enfield and Mauser rifles used by mujahedeen rebels.

"These are important considerations in Afghanistan, where NATO forces are frequently attacked by insurgents using ... sharpshooter's rifles, which are all chambered for a full-powered cartridge which dates back to the 1890s," said Paul Cornish, curator of firearms at the Imperial War Museum in London.

The heavier bullets enable Taliban militants to shoot at U.S. and NATO soldiers from positions well beyond the effective range of the coalition's rifles.

To counter these tactics, the U.S. military is designating nine soldiers in each infantry company to serve as sharpshooters, according to Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote the Army study. They are equipped with the new M-110 sniper rifle, which fires a larger 7.62mm round and is accurate to at least 2,500 feet.

At the heart of the debate is whether a soldier is better off with the more-rapid firepower of the 5.56mm bullets or with the longer range of the 7.62 mm bullets.

"The reason we employ the M-4 is because it's a close-in weapon, since we anticipate house-to-house fighting in many situations," said Lt. Col. Denis J. Riel, a NATO spokesman.

He added that each squad also has light machine guns and automatic grenade launchers for the long-range engagements common in Afghanistan.

In the early years of the Vietnam War, the Army's standard rifle was the M-14, which fired a 7.62 mm bullet. The gun had too much recoil to be controllable during automatic firing and was considered too unwieldy for close-quarter jungle warfare. The M-16 replaced it in the mid-1960s.
Lighter bullets also meant soldiers could carry more ammunition on lengthy jungle patrols.

The M-16 started a general trend toward smaller cartridges. Other weapons such as the French FAMAS and the British L85A1 adopted them, and the round became standardized as the "5.56mm NATO."

The Soviet Union, whose AK-47 already used a shorter 7.62mm bullet that was less powerful but more controllable, created a smaller 5.45mm round for its replacement AK-74s.

"The 5.56 mm caliber is more lethal since it can put more rounds on target," said Col. Douglas Tamilio, program manager for U.S. Army firearms at the Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey. "But at 500-600 meters (1,600-2,000 feet), the round doesn't have stopping power, since the weapon system was never designed for that."

The arsenal, which is the Army's center for small-arms development, is trying to find a solution.

A possible compromise would be an interim-caliber round combining the best characteristics of the 5.56mm and 7.62mm cartridges, Tamilio said.
The challenge is compounded by the fact that in flat areas of Afghanistan, most firefights take place at shorter ranges of up to 1,000 feet, where the M-4 performs well.

U.S. soldiers in militant-infested Zhari district in southern Afghanistan's Kandahar province said they haven't experienced problems with the range of their M-4 rifles.

Lt. Scott Doyle, a platoon commander in Zhari, said his troops are usually facing Taliban AK-47s.

"When the Taliban get past 300 meters (1,000 feet) with an AK-47, they are just spraying and praying," he said.

Martin Fackler, a ballistics expert, also defended the 5.56mm round, blaming the M-4s inadequate performance on its short barrel, which makes it easier for soldiers to scramble out of modern armored vehicles.

"Unfortunately weapon engineers shortened the M-16's barrel to irrational lengths," Fackler said. "It was meant for a 20-inch barrel. What they've done by cutting the barrel to 14.5 inches is that they've lost a lot of velocity."

[hbharrison]

I wandered when some at the top would get the hint just maybe our Marines will get something with a little more punch to it, old stand by M-14's maybe or anything in 7.62 would be better than what they are using oh crap give'em BMG's that will work

[polizei]

Omg yes, please a .308! Or a .338 Lapua. Yum

[fmoyer]

Dig out the old BAR,s and M-!'s good range and stoping power. Get back to basic shooting skills for everone. Every Marine is a rifleman lets make them all good ones.

[hbharrison]

Check with some big ammo dealers they said there is more .308 around and being made than .338 and I have been told there a lot of M14's still in the inventory but no matter get the things to the Marines and they will take it from there.

[m14ed]

We used to have some good toys in the old days and one infantry training
regiment system that everyone got as a starter course.
Are'nt the Young supposed to profit from the Mistakes of their elders ?

Dig out the old BAR,s and M-!'s good range and stoping power. Get back to basic shooting skills for everone. Every Marine is a rifleman lets make them all good ones.

and OTHER ANTIQUES maybe like ??1911a1 pistol, M 60/pig & m14,s ,????

Ready on the right, ready on the left, all ready on the Firing Line,

[SGT7477]

The 300 Ultra Mag would work just fine,lol.

[Zulu 36]

I see the article quotes Dr Martin Fackler, MD. This guy knows his stuff when it comes to terminal ballistics. I've always thought it was dumb to reduce the M-16 barrel length so short.

Dr Fackler has shown that severe wounds from intermediate caliber assault rifles are not due to yawing or cavitation (i.e. from tumbling), but instead due to fragmentation of the bullet. This requires a certain velocity level to accomplish when it strikes the primary target. Higher powered combat rifle rounds (7.62 and similar calibers) inflict their wounds somewhat differently because of bullet size and weight.

I suppose it doesn't matter much when you're shooting across a room, or even across a street. But start getting some real ranges involved and the 5.56mm doesn't quite make it out of a short barrel. I think much over 500 meters with even a 20" barrel is pushing it.

The 5.56 is very sensitive to intermediate targets (leaves, brush, windows, walls, etc) not to mention cross wind. The 7.62 is much more forgiving.

I could shoot bulls at 500 meters with an M-4 length barrel, but I was an experienced KD range shooter by that time with an M-1, M-14, and M-16. Not every Marine or soldier has that kind of experience.

[Bill25]

Anything in 7.62. Could always put a thinner jacket on it like the west germans did by mistake if you want breaking up inside like 5.56.

[montana]

it all about hydraulics....put on a longer barrole...gain 32 fps per inch of barrole.....high speed on inpackt....have seen deer shot with 223.....with 24 inch barrole...bullet speed 3,300 fps...hit the deear in the neck....found blood shot in hinde quarters....blew out all the bloodvessels....try ta save someone that has had that .....load them babbys up.....i could fire the m14 full auto....but my expiriance you are much more likely to hit what your shooting at semi auto any way...bullets last longer.....what ever happend to calling in arty???...they want long range...give it to um

[LandsNGrooves]

People need to make up there minds.

Do you want every pair of boots to be able to reach out 1000m?
There are a lot of ways this article could go but my vote is this.



Quick change barrel system allows tailoring for the mission. The Lite version can fire 5.56 AND 6.8. Switching from one to the other only required a barrel and bolt change. The ACR heavy version fires the 7.62 nato. Its pistol driven vs Direct Gas Impingement, soo the bolt runs cool and clean. All controls are ambi, and the bolt resease is No. 17, which means the bolt can see locked and sent into battery with the pistol grip hand.

[hbharrison]

I just hope what ever they come with works the first time out of the box and our guys can use them without problems.

[micarr57]

what no m=60 how about the m-85 reach out n touch someone

[kenrobg30]

We used to have some good toys in the old days and one infantry training
regiment system that everyone got as a starter course.
Are'nt the Young supposed to profit from the Mistakes of their elders ?





and OTHER ANTIQUES maybe like ??1911a1 pistol, M 60/pig & m14,s ,????

Ready on the right, ready on the left, all ready on the Firing Line,

You left something out Ed. When we went to the range, we got an old Sgt, as an instructor, Who started, and ended every session with the four words at the top. I'd love to see every Marine, shoot like Hathcock. I still believe, Our young Marines should shoot for the money. One shot, one kill, ammo is expensive. S/F!!! Ken

[sparkie]

I've qualled with the 14 and the 16. Gimme the 14. When I wanna play down range, I prefeer my Enfield .308.