Wow

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I wouldn't dog on the Navy to much. It's always good knowing those big guns they float on, got your back.

The big guns have been retired for the most part. Now they have missiles and planes that float in the water.

[Curt Geezus]

BUD/S isn't as difficult as they let on. The reason their success rate is so low is because they can ring the bell and leave. Honestly, if that bell was at MCRD there would be fewer Marines. Now, I am not saying boot camp is as difficult as BUD/S, because it isn't. But, the metal aspect of Marine Recruit Training is just as harsh.

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.

Sure, run about 5 miles, do about 30 pull-ups, and get about 200 crunches while your at it, but nothing can prepare most sailors the hardship, they never had it at Basic Training and when they hit BUD/S it finally hits them, a major culture shock and all they have to do is ring that bell. Like Cpl. said, its the mentality of MCRD.

Not only that, you have to take a sailor who dosen't have a warrior first background, some haven't even qualified with a rifle, some never shot one, some never put on a pack and move out for 10-12 miles. Plus you have to teach these sailors the basic and advance of infantry combat before they can move on to the special operations.

Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.

But now the SEALs are in the low areas of retention, no longer are people wanting to be SEALs, since Recon Indoc is open to almost any 03xx Marine and Ranger school has an option contract with ABN, Rangers and Marine Recon are bringing sexy back.

That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.

[Curt Geezus]

You are correct. I've been around both. The bottom 10% of Marines are probably much better at what they do.

I guess I will have to take your word for it since I don't know any SEALs, but I do know some Marines..and some of them are down right sh*ty. Which I think is mainly because they joined for the wrong reasons now they are stuck in a tough lifestyle.

The problem is because you're on a Marine site trying to talk about how great the Navy is. It doesn't work that way. If you think the Seals are so great, go be one. But don't expect us to do back flips over a bunch of over funded, over hyped, and under worked people that bounce balls on their nose for a living.

Rangers seem to be getting plenty of credit. I have a lot of respect for other units outside of the Marine Corps, and SEALs is one of them. I'm just saying, there is no need to bash someone just because they aren't a Marine.

[Marine84]

I'm just saying, there is no need to bash someone just because they aren't a Marine.

Get a GRIP - unruffle your feathers - honestly, it's all done in fun (for the biggest part) but you will NEVER convince ME or any of these other Marines in here that we should NOT bash another branch.

They'll swear that THEIR branches are the elite but, EVERYBODY that comes in here KNOWS that OURS is! What is the problem with THAT? Are some of us in here not PC enough for you? You can get over that issue too IF you have the balls to step through The front gate at MCRD AND come back through it with the Title AND an Eagle, Globe and Anchor. The poster wasn't lieing - we don't offer you a rose garden.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Well said '84.

You can either pack the gear, or not. Your choice. But don't expect some sort of Koombaya club around here for those who DON'T have the title. Not gonna happen.

Either pull up your big girl panties and deal with it, or don't. Either way, don't presume to lecture Marines who've BTDT. That's an immediate 'call for fire' on your pos.

[HurricaneRJ]

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.

Yes all SOCOM units have a rigorous training regimne.
Why?

Simple, they need the best out of the field, if everyone could be a Ranger then it wouldn't be like the Rangers today. You want the ones who have the determination to endure pain and to stay motivated.

All the crap about SEALs saying "We want the guys who won't quit, that way we know they won't leave us behind."

Bull**** in my part, thats the ****ing way of living for every Soldier and every Marine. Warriors don't leave Warriors behind. Some SEAL candidates can't take the drilling because mentally they can, but physically they can't feel their muslces or more likely they pulled the SOB so hard that they can't continue. Defeats the purpose of trying get SEALs in.

Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.

In MCRD, Recruits are trained and mentored into a warrior spirit before they take on a grueling task at SOI.

At BUD/S you got Sailors who were probably cooks, admins, or a gunner on a ship. For one who dosen't have a warrior mentality and for the second part getting on a pair of cammies, a pack, and some boots and going humping is not a traditional sailor thing.

Here is a good example of Marine Recruits getting drilled with the warrior spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuctkYYywZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpnh946Xh3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_yXD5kE2Sk

Now were in Navy Basic Training where they are put through this???

Now for the sailors that do make it. ****ing Bravo the next 5 are on me.
For me personally I wanted to be the best, I wanted to join an elite organization, Army Rangers, AF PJs, Navy Seals, or the Marine Recon

All these were going in my head. Then I started to look at the history of these organization. All these are elite of their branch, but one is not better than the other.

PJ's can't do what SEALs do. Rangers can't do what PJ's do.

Now Marine Recon has evoled into some sort. I read an article of where the Recon are expandable and can complete mission ranging from Rangers and SEALs.

ANGLICO, MARSOC, FORCE RECON. All these were/are options into a special forces type enviroment. It just that MARSOC is under command of SOCOM, which means the Marines finally gets recognized as one the big boys.

That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.

Lets face it. SEALs are on the low ground right now, if they were so ever popular then they wouldn't be needed to retain SEALs. A recent article reported that the salty SEALs are leaving to join to become "Gun for Hire"

I work out at Gold's Gym in Columbus and I very close friends with Rangers who spent about 8-10 years as a Ranger and are getting out and getting paid some big ass cheese.

Now for civilians going in.

The Navy recruiting office is right down the street, I have been in there about 5 times, but I ask all the guys what will be there jobs and not one person said anything about becoming a SEAL. The Army is right behind a mall and I went up there and ask how many wanted to be a Ranger. ALL 13 guys raised their hand.

Now for the Marines poolies we have, we have about only 8 of us going Infantry but we all want to be Recon, either sooner or later. Not to mention the Infantry is bringing MOS is picking up. ITB is backed up with so many Marine boots who have an 03xx slot.

You never know, what could happen but the SEALs are struggling. They're damn good warriors but no one is the better at offering skilled and trained warrios than the UNITED STATES MARINE CORP!.

[HurricaneRJ]

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.

Yes all SOCOM units have a rigorous training regimne.
Why?

Simple, they need the best out of the field, if everyone could be a Ranger then it wouldn't be like the Rangers today. You want the ones who have the determination to endure pain and to stay motivated.

All the crap about SEALs saying "We want the guys who won't quit, that way we know they won't leave us behind."

Bull**** in my part, thats the ****ing way of living for every Soldier and every Marine. Warriors don't leave Warriors behind. Some SEAL candidates can't take the drilling because mentally they can, but physically they can't feel their muslces or more likely they pulled the SOB so hard that they can't continue. Defeats the purpose of trying get SEALs in.

Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.

In MCRD, Recruits are trained and mentored into a warrior spirit before they take on a grueling task at SOI.

At BUD/S you got Sailors who were probably cooks, admins, or a gunner on a ship. For one who dosen't have a warrior mentality and for the second part getting on a pair of cammies, a pack, and some boots and going humping is not a traditional sailor thing.

Here is a good example of Marine Recruits getting drilled with the warrior spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuctkYYywZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpnh946Xh3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_yXD5kE2Sk

Now were in Navy Basic Training where they are put through this???

Now for the sailors that do make it. ****ing Bravo the next 5 are on me.
For me personally I wanted to be the best, I wanted to join an elite organization, Army Rangers, AF PJs, Navy Seals, or the Marine Recon

All these were going in my head. Then I started to look at the history of these organization. All these are elite of their branch, but one is not better than the other.

PJ's can't do what SEALs do. Rangers can't do what PJ's do.

Now Marine Recon has evoled into some sort. I read an article of where the Recon are expandable and can complete mission ranging from Rangers and SEALs.

ANGLICO, MARSOC, FORCE RECON. All these were/are options into a special forces type enviroment. It just that MARSOC is under command of SOCOM, which means the Marines finally gets recognized as one the big boys.

That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.

Lets face it. SEALs are on the low ground right now, if they were so ever popular then they wouldn't be needed to retain SEALs. A recent article reported that the salty SEALs are leaving to join to become "Gun for Hire"

I work out at Gold's Gym in Columbus and I very close friends with Rangers who spent about 8-10 years as a Ranger and are getting out and getting paid some big ass cheese.

Now for civilians going in.

The Navy recruiting office is right down the street, I have been in there about 5 times, but I ask all the guys what will be there jobs and not one person said anything about becoming a SEAL. The Army is right behind a mall and I went up there and ask how many wanted to be a Ranger. ALL 13 guys raised their hand.

Now for the Marines poolies we have, we have about only 8 of us going Infantry but we all want to be Recon, either sooner or later. Not to mention the Infantry is bringing MOS is picking up. ITB is backed up with so many Marine boots who have an 03xx slot.

You never know, what could happen but the SEALs are struggling. They're damn good warriors but no one is the better at providing skilled and trained warriors than the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS.

Damn, just got motivated off those videos. I'm of on a run in the middle of the night.

[rvillac2]

I think you'd agree that the bottom 10% of Marines are not on the same level as the bottom 10% of SEALs.

Honestly, Curt, you talk like a critical thinker and most likely pack the gear to be in our Corps. However, I want to comment on this quote.

You're comparing a group of several hundred SEALS to more than 150,000 Marines. Of course the bottom 10% of an elite group will be better than the bottom 10% of our larger Corps. Unfortunately, we can't weed out all the sh!tbirds in bootcamp. The politicians saw to that.

However, take ALL of the SEALS and match them up man for man against the SAME number of Infantry Marine NCOs and I'll bet that we'll be better in most dimensions. Physical fitness, marksmanship, fieldcraft, and military discipline are just a few to name.

Since I do statistics for a living, I just wanted to correct your logic (and back up my Grunt bretheren at the same time).

Once again to my fellow brothers and sister that posted on this thread...AMEN and OOHRAH!

[Integrity57]

Just to throw this out there, I do believe I read an article on this very site, that said there were currently 2,300 active duty SEALs. And why are ya'll comparing the SEALs to the Rangers anyway? Both Skillets and E4B made it abundantly clear in another thread that the Rangers are not a Special Forces unit, and how come no one has even mentioned Army Special Forces anyways?

[Motorola07]

Probably because not many people know about it maybe?

[HurricaneRJ]

Just to throw this out there, I do believe I read an article on this very site, that said there were currently 2,300 active duty SEALs. And why are ya'll comparing the SEALs to the Rangers anyway? Both Skillets and E4B made it abundantly clear in another thread that the Rangers are not a Special Forces unit, and how come no one has even mentioned Army Special Forces anyways?

Army Rangers fall under SOCOM (There for meaning special forces.)

Basically, Army Rangers are a light-infantry force that gets to SOCOM jobs.

Green Berets?! I never seen one in Ft. Benning in my life.

Theres a bunch of special forces guys here, you see them with their ACU's on and they have the Airborne Special Forces patch on the left arm and the right arm is left blank.

Mostly are assigned to a special taskforce from what they tell me.

[Integrity57]

"Probably because not many people know about it maybe?"

That's kind of surprising, I thought they were more well known. I'm pretty familiar with them, but that's because I've researched them I guess. Did you know that their training is two years long? And that's after the whole Indoc process I believe.

[HurricaneRJ]

Well best bet is look up on what type of action the Army Special Forces unit have done.

Mostly during the Operation Enduring Freedom, they're were numerous small. Army and AF special forces team, as well as Recon and SEALs in the act as well.

You won't hear much about the Army's special forces, because all of them stem from the Rangers. If you can get Rangers, then you got your supply needed to make Green Berets (Or whatever they call themselves now.)

[Integrity57]

Army Rangers fall under SOCOM (There for meaning special forces.)

Basically, Army Rangers are a light-infantry force that gets to SOCOM jobs.

Green Berets?! I never seen one in Ft. Benning in my life.

Theres a bunch of special forces guys here, you see them with their ACU's on and they have the Airborne Special Forces patch on the left arm and the right arm is left blank.

Mostly are assigned to a special taskforce from what they tell me.

I've met two former Special Forces operators, granted they are both retired, but none the less.Here ya go, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Army_Special_Forces
scroll down a bit, it says there's no SF Unit stationed in Georgia

[Integrity57]

Thought this was a great pic, Special Forces Operator in Afghanistan.