Did U.S. Elections Signal End to Democracy in Iraq?

[SuNmAN]

Which is why, it's up to 'us' to show them the way. Otherwise, they'll never get the right thing; because sure enough, Iran and Syria aren't going to help them out one little bit.

As far as this bit goes "So lets not hear any crap about "America is not a democracy, it is a Republic", because a republic is a form of democratic government !!!!"

It's not crap, it's the truth. Read between the lines, there; Attention to detail and all that! It is a Republic, not a true democracy. Yes, it's "A FORM" of democratic gummint...but NOT a true democracy.

Recall the Pledge of Allegiance "...and to the REPUBLIC, for which it stands..."

The difference is more than just semantical.

I'm glad your college seems pro military, or at least takes a neutral position. That's good to know.

Your definition of 'moderate', however, may be the consensus definition, here, of "liberal". What you see as a moderate, in other words, conservatives wouldn't.

Agreed. However -

1. There are zero true democracies on the face of this earth, just like there are zero true communist states
2. The term "democracy" is used to describe a state in which the people have certain freedoms, including the right of free speech, the right to practice free religion and to elect representatives in government.

A republic is not an entirely different beast. It is essentially the same thing I would argue.

Liberals consider me too conservative, conversatives consider me too liberal

lol guess I'm just a middle of the road guy who likes to see both side of things.

You guys have lumped me with 10thzodiac many times but if you look in the Open Squad Bay we have disagreed now on multiple issues :-)

[Sgt Leprechaun]

"The only thing in the middle of the road are yeller lines and dead 'possums".

LOL.

Ya can't always BE 'middle of the road'; sometimes, ya gotta take a side, no matter which side it is.

[DWG]

re·pub·lic /rɪˈpʌblɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-puhb-lik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.


de·moc·ra·cy /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-mok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

The devil is in the details; similarities are not the same as being the same. A republic is run by "representatives chosen by the people" a democracy is run directly by the people. Believe it or not that is a huge difference. If we were a democracy,segregation would still be legal, religion would still be allowed in schools and abortion would be illegal. I heard a historian describe the different "republics" of America-the first between the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution was a loose confederation of state/nations, the second, post Constitution, States allied with and through a weak federal government, keeping most power unto the state. As Shreiner pointed out the 2nd Revolution(civil war) started the 3rd republic, the states now bowed to the federal government; the fourth arose under Roosevelt as the socialist republic. Each time gov. grew larger. The time between the 2nd, 3rd and 4th republics is roughly 80 years. We are now ready to be forced into the 5th republic-globalization and the end of this country as it was founded. Every day schools patiently teach this democracy=republic, over and over; The demonization of America is taught constantly-"why should we think we're better than any one else?" We have supreme court justices that consider international law in deciding cases dealing with our own citizens. This country was NEVER supposed to be a democracy and the founding fathers made that clear. We have chosen to lose sight of that and it will be our undoing.

Hell, I had to go back and see what this thread was about, it's gone on so long.

[yellowwing]

Johm Wayne recitng the Pledge of Allegiance.

[SuNmAN]

re·pub·lic /rɪˈpʌblɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-puhb-lik] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.


de·moc·ra·cy /dɪˈmɒkrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-mok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.

The devil is in the details; similarities are not the same as being the same. A republic is run by "representatives chosen by the people" a democracy is run directly by the people. Believe it or not that is a huge difference. If we were a democracy,segregation would still be legal, religion would still be allowed in schools and abortion would be illegal. I heard a historian describe the different "republics" of America-the first between the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution was a loose confederation of state/nations, the second, post Constitution, States allied with and through a weak federal government, keeping most power unto the state. As Shreiner pointed out the 2nd Revolution(civil war) started the 3rd republic, the states now bowed to the federal government; the fourth arose under Roosevelt as the socialist republic. Each time gov. grew larger. The time between the 2nd, 3rd and 4th republics is roughly 80 years. We are now ready to be forced into the 5th republic-globalization and the end of this country as it was founded. Every day schools patiently teach this democracy=republic, over and over; The demonization of America is taught constantly-"why should we think we're better than any one else?" We have supreme court justices that consider international law in deciding cases dealing with our own citizens. This country was NEVER supposed to be a democracy and the founding fathers made that clear. We have chosen to lose sight of that and it will be our undoing.

Hell, I had to go back and see what this thread was about, it's gone on so long.

No country in the world has a government run directly by the people. You'd have to go back to Ancient Athens for that.

[SuNmAN]

"The only thing in the middle of the road are yeller lines and dead 'possums".

LOL.

Ya can't always BE 'middle of the road'; sometimes, ya gotta take a side, no matter which side it is.

Drive too far to the left or too fat to the right and you just might swerve off the road.

Being politically moderate is much better than being radically left or right

Some of the things proposed by Marines on this forum are so far to the right its unthinkable (thermonuclear war against all major Muslim states? deportation of all American Muslims etc.)

I would rate those suggestion as bad as or even worse than the crap that spews out of Michael Moore's mouth.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Drive too far to the left or too fat to the right and you just might swerve off the road.

Being politically moderate is much better than being radically left or right

Some of the things proposed by Marines on this forum are so far to the right its unthinkable (thermonuclear war against all major Muslim states? deportation of all American Muslims etc.)

I would rate those suggestion as bad as or even worse than the crap that spews out of Michael Moore's mouth.

I wasn't suggesting either far left, or far right. The point I was trying to make was simply trying to be all things to all people is almost always a receipe for disaster.

A "moderate" to me is someone who can't quite make up their mind what side of the road to drive on, and consequently, gets creamed going around a corner by a big Mack truck. No one is suggesting you drive off the road on the left or the right.

Putting it another way, when/if you become an NCO, you'll never be a successful troop leader if you are 'moderate'. Because you'll never be able to make every Marine happy in your decisions. Make a decision, stick with it, and go from there. If you screw it up, learn from it and move on, reminding yourself not to do the same thing again.

A "moderate" NCO is someone who can't control their fireteam/squad/platoon, and who consequently is standing on the little yellow footprints in front of the "Old Man's" desk trying to explain why his/her Marines are always in some kinda trouble.

[Ladderwell]

Yes, the US elections (of 2000) did end democracy in Iraq, and the US. We have now devolved into a banana republic! Check this out:

Rift cited over option to boost troops
(By Robin Wright and Peter Baker, Washington Post)
WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration is split over the idea of a surge in troops to Iraq, with White House officials aggressively promoting the concept over the unanimous disagreement of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to US officials familiar with the intense debate.

(These are our soldiers, friends and relatives the White House wants to throw into the fiery pit, and over the objections of the Joint Chiefs. What audacity! What profound ignorance!

Heaven protect our troops from the warmongering Republicans, and their clown of a president.

They're like a bull in a china closet, smashing EVERYTHING good. After they've finished with 8 years of horrific damage, will we ever be able to put our country back together again? Ever?

Semper Fi (Now we need to protect our own from the lunatics running the asylum.).

Where do you stand? What party will you vote for in 2008?
*
Ladderwell

[greensideout]

Yes, the US elections (of 2000) did end democracy in Iraq, and the US. We have now devolved into a banana republic! Check this out:

Rift cited over option to boost troops
(By Robin Wright and Peter Baker, Washington Post)
WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration is split over the idea of a surge in troops to Iraq, with White House officials aggressively promoting the concept over the unanimous disagreement of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to US officials familiar with the intense debate.

(These are our soldiers, friends and relatives the White House wants to throw into the fiery pit, and over the objections of the Joint Chiefs. What audacity! What profound ignorance!

Heaven protect our troops from the warmongering Republicans, and their clown of a president.

They're like a bull in a china closet, smashing EVERYTHING good. After they've finished with 8 years of horrific damage, will we ever be able to put our country back together again? Ever?

Semper Fi (Now we need to protect our own from the lunatics running the asylum.).

Where do you stand? What party will you vote for in 2008?
*
Ladderwell

Ladderwell, you just keep beating the same drum. Pull you head from the sand and look around. Who are YOU going to vote for? When you find someone worthy of a vote check back with us and let us know who this great person is!

[Ladderwell]

Greensideout,

Hillary Clinton stands out as an excellent candidate for president:

She's been through a heck of a marriage and is still standing tall, proving to be made of good steel.

Hillary was vilified by a Republican Congress when she was working on a National Health Insurance project, really raked over the coals, and today we have over 40,000,000 Americans without health insurance, and the new Massachusetts model is the first real attempt to cover everyone since the Republican squashed the idea.

Hillary is a college grad, has kept her cool, remaining dignified and professional even during the time the Republicans stopped the work of Congress to focus on love stains on Monika's dress. (What perverts!).

Hillary knows how to speak the Queen's English, and in whole sentances.

She has proven her worth as a US Senator, seamlessly integrating with that branch of the government.

She brings a lifetime of political savvy to the table, learning how to get things done politically.

She has never embarassed the United States, nor brought dishonor on the Presidency, nor cowboy-ishly illegally invaded or supported the invasion of a soverign country, and the only time she may have supported it was when she was LIED TO by the current administration.

She has been strong and steadfast as a person and civil servant, dedicating her life to this Grand Experiment called America.

Yeah, I'd vote for her. She stands for the American values I was taught to uphold. John Wayne would like her.

If it is not her, it would be someone similar to that I could admire, and believe would take care of and protect America, instead of killing our own, and thumbing our noses to the rest of the world, and who might listen to the Joint Chiefs of Staff when it comes to the conduct of war.

Ladderwell

[greensideout]

Greensideout,

Hillary Clinton stands out as an excellent candidate for president:

Yeah, I'd vote for her. She stands for the American values I was taught to uphold. John Wayne would like her.



Ladderwell

LMAO---no wait, I want to comment---LMAO---I'll get it together in a moment---wait---ROTFLMAO

[yellowwing]

Well hey, If she's got the savy to turn $1,000 of cattle futures into $100,000 profit, she can work miracles with our $8,616,523,045,908 deficit.

We really are on the hook for that money.

[greensideout]

Yes wing, we are bankrupt as a nation. She will save us like Lenin saved Russia.

[jinelson]

by yellowwing - Well hey, If she's got the savy to turn $1,000 of cattle futures into $100,000 profit, she can work miracles with our $8,616,523,045,908 deficit.

Naw no way wing she can only work those miracles for her own Hildabeast ass in true democratic politcal fashion! Vince Foster could tell you that lol.

by greensideout - LMAO---no wait, I want to comment---LMAO---I'll get it together in a moment---wait---ROTFLMAO

Hey Ron Im with you on the deck LMMFAO

I pray that the peoples democratic party of the US nominates Hildabeast as their party candidate and maybe pair her up with John Hanoi Kerry or better yet Barack Obama Bin Laden, man what a landslide for the republican party.

Jim

Hildabeast telling an aid what to tell Ladderwell to post next as his leftest talking point on Leatherneck.com

Der Secular Progressive Furher un der Peoples Democratic Party!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Hillary(!)...not likely. Nor the latest left wing darling, "Obama". Neither candidate has my interests at heart, only the 'new socialist order'.

Thanks, but I'll stick with somebody who won't tax me to my grave and surrender my rights, and those of my children, without firing a shot.

As far as John Wayne liking her, I highly doubt it, based on the biographies I've read of him; he was conservative through and through (he probably would slam W for his 'compassionate conservative' crap as well), he would have despised her like he despised the communists and other fellow travelers of her ilk.