U.S. Navy creates a New Marine Corps

[thedrifter]

U.S. Navy creates a New Marine Corps
StrategyPageDotCom

July 20, 2005: The U.S. Navy feels it is in need of more "soldiers of the sea." But since the U.S. Navy has lost control of the U.S. Marine Corps, the navy is assembling a new force of naval infantry. This is not really new. For example, the toughest troops in the Navy Department are not the marines, but the sailors who belong to the SEALs, an organization formed in the 1960s. But the process of regenerating the American naval infantry is accelerating. There was a time, not too long ago, when the marines where what marines had always been, soldiers who belonged to the navy and served on ships. But since World War II, the U.S. Marine Corps have developed into a truly separate force, no longer available to the navy.

While marines like to think that the Marine Corps has, since 1798, been a separate service, this did not actually happen until quite recently. Until World War II, the Marine Corps was so small, and dependent on the navy (for amphibious ships and, well, work to do), that in practice, marines tended to do whatever the navy asked them to do. But after World War II, the much larger marine force became, gradually, a truly independent service. The marines were still intertwined with the navy, but increasingly, able to defy the admirals. Thus we have the navy forming the SEAL commandos, in the early 1960s, using sailors, rather than marines. Over the next few decades, the navy slowly stopped using marines for their traditional job of providing onboard ship security. By the end of the century, the navy was content to let the marines be whatever they could get away with, and the navy would basically do without them.

After September 11, 2001, when the navy sought to increase its security force for ships in port, it did not turn to the marines (who long had taken care of that sort of thing), but greatly expanded the number of "Masters at Arms" (previously a job category, not a force). Now comes the ECG (expeditionary combat battalion) of high quality sailors who could fight on water or land in coastal operations. The ECG would obtain its manpower from those who apply to join the SEALs, but don't make it. The SEALs are a very selective organization, accepting less than one in ten of those who apply. Now the navy wants to do something with those high quality rejects. The recent navy announcement that it is putting together a "brown water (coastal and rivers)" force mentioned an infantry component, and that these troops would be sailors, not troops from the Marine Corps. This new force also makes it clear how much the navy and marines have grown apart.

But the ECG is expected to be higher quality than the marines, something close to U.S. Army Special Forces. The ECG would be trained in foreign languages and cultures, and be part of the force that provided training to foreign navies. But the ECG would also take over some SEAL functions, like providing boarding parties for dangerous interdiction missions. Most of these boarding operations are not dangerous, and are handled by specially trained sailors and Masters at Arms. These folks are also doing a job that has traditionally belonged to "marines." But since the U.S. Navy no longer has control of the U.S. Marine Corps, and needs marines, it has to rebuild the force under a new name. Or, rather, several new names.

The new marine force will be only a few thousand strong, which is more in line with the proportion of marines in other navies. The U.S. Navy lost its original marine force because the U.S. Marine Corps got so large during World War II that it was no longer a part of the navy, but a truly separate entity. This new force of naval infantry also revives another old navy tradition; infantry training for sailors. Until about a century ago, infantry training for sailors, and even infantry exercises on land, were a regular feature of navy life. All this had faded away by the 1930s. The navy stopped issuing field manuals for naval infantry in the 1960s. But the war on terror, and increased emphasis on brown water operations, has returned many sailors to the old ways. The new naval infantry will perform many of the traditional marine functions, without being called marines.

Ellie

[airframesguru]

HMMMM

[LivinSoFree]

I have to wonder...

[RLeon]

Gee, I guess we'll have to change our name from the Marine Corps to the "lesser elite fellas that don't do the Navy's bidding anymore".

[greensideout]

The Navy SEALS are made up of Marine and Navy personnel. They ain't just Navy. Anyone know the percentage of that make up?

The Navy really hates us (Marines), don't they. But they are always trying to be as good as Marines. The Corps is the benchmark they seek to gain to join into the "men's" department of the Navy, The United States Marine Corps!

Who will fill the ranks of the ECG? I would suspect that many if not most will be Marines.

[yellowwing]

The way we are fighting land warfare is changing to adapt to terrorism threats.

We are securing Al Anbar, western Iraq, very far from the coast. We drove our Amphibious Assault Vehicles all the way to Baghdad. We are now in land locked Afghanistan, perfecting our mountain warfare skills. We are the catch-all go to force when the extraordinary needs doing.

Naval Yards have gone to a lot of private security firms. SEAL Teams are inherently smaller forces.

This ECG of sailors would give more direct control for the fleet commanders.

Remember that Marine Brigadier General that is now commanding a small Naval Task Force. Using a Marine for that billet had not been done before, (not recently at least).

An ECG would be a perfect fit for that unit. We should have seen it coming.

[jinelson]

Hey Wing ya never cease to amaze me in our parallel thinking we must have had the same instructors.

Semper Fi Brother
Jim

[Joseph P Carey]

You may call them what you want, they will never be Marines. It is tradition that makes Marines what they are!

[USMCgrunt0331]

They can try to say the ECG is better than the Marines when they have to go thru something equivalent to our bootcamp, match our physical fitness standards and institute into the navy the Marine Corp's level of standards regarding discipline, esprit de corps, motivation, commitment to the job, marksmanship skills and all the rest of the things that make Marines the great warriors that they are. We work w/ a lot of navy here in Gitmo in the Joint Task Force, primarily MA's which are what most of the navy here are, and it's laughable to think of a regular Naval Infantry that could compete w/ a Marine Corps Company-heck, the MA's here work a schedule where they only work 15 days a month.

Having foreign language skills and more schooling might make you better qualified working with foreigns and training them maybe, but it doesn't make you better warrior and infantryman.

[yellowwing]

Navy Rating MA=Master at Arms, I had to look that one up.

However these battalions would be trained, how qualified would the Navy commanders be that will take them to war?

Sooner or later we are not going to give the Navy any more of our Brigadier Generals to command these task forces.

Would a career Navy 'Surface Warrior' really know what to do with a 1,500 highly motivated, superbly equipped, blood thirsty killers?

A Navy Institute Proceedings article critical of organization of these tasks forces: Expeditionary Strike Groups Are Misaligned
...ESG-1 was unable to test its ability to operate with one foot ashore and one foot at sea, as designed and trained. Right after entering Fifth Fleet, ESG-1 was directed to deploy its MEU inland and its seagoing assets were dispersed. Finally, it had no opportunity to function as a joint task force (JTF)—one of an ESG’s designed capabilities. Thus, many Navy leaders are likely to gather that a flag officer-led ESG staff failed to demonstrate a significant advantage over the East Coast’s traditional supporting/supported relationship...

[gwladgarwr]

Originally posted by USMCgrunt0331
Having foreign language skills and more schooling might make you better qualified working with foreigns and training them maybe, but it doesn't make you better warrior and infantryman.

I really fail to understand how knowing other languages CAN'T make you a better warrior or infantryman (ever try to speak to an Iraqi EPW or tell an Iraqi insurgent to drop his weapon in English?) Explain to me how it didn't make ME better when I heard two Iraqis stopped at my checkpoint speaking to each other in German when they thought we could understand Arabic? And yes, I understood everything they said to each other. How many fools in the middle of the Iraqi desert speak German? Remember that the heart of warfare is deception War does not always have to be fought with muscle. Turns out those two were surprised when I started talking back to them in German. Funny what you learn when you spend a few years building a terrorist cell in Dusseldorf.

Sorry, I guess I'm a lousy scout. Better unlearn my languages and go back to SOI. .

[USMCgrunt0331]

Let me rephrase the point I was trying to make-Knowing a foreign language alone doesn't make a sailor a better infantryman than a Marine. Of course knowing a foreign language is extremely helpful and very beneficial to any infantryman. It definetely inhances any member of the military. I'm just saying that it takes more than a bilinguist w/ cultural classes to be classified as some elite warrior. It takes superb training, and all of the other traits I listed in my previous post, as well as many others, not just more muscle as you seem to think I implied. I hope this clears up everything I was saying.

And what do you mean by "funny what you learn building a terrorist cell"? The way you said it it implies you were spending years building a terrorist cell in dusseldorf, which would imply you are a terrorist, which I'm sure is not the case, I think there's just some misunderstanding here.

[gwladgarwr]

Originally posted by USMCgrunt0331
And what do you mean by "funny what you learn building a terrorist cell"? The way you said it it implies you were spending years building a terrorist cell in dusseldorf, which would imply you are a terrorist, which I'm sure is not the case, I think there's just some misunderstanding here.

I was talking about the Iraqis at the checkpoint, not me.

I'm too sexy for terrorist cells, anyway. They're SO 15 minutes ago.

[outlaw3179]

So...ummm...is my job at risk? lol.....

[USMCgrunt0331]

Sailors go grunt
Picture Navy swabbies swinging from the yardarms, knives in their teeth, spoiling for a fight with their ocean-going foes.

This is the caption the Marine Times used to describe the new plan. There's an article in this week's Marine Times. Pretty funny!

Outlaw-the day my job as an infantryman is at risk by a squid is the day I make my plans to move to Australia, lol, cause the security of this nation would be at extreme risk if the sailor's did all of our fighting. There's some outstanding sailors out there-but the navy ain't fit to become an infantry yet, other than an elite few. OOHRAH!

But then they are already talkin about women infantry battalions, and I just saw a story on AFN where the Air Force is incorporating a 4-day event called the Beast into their bootcamp, teaching infantry tactics, and they are starting training in bootcamp w/ the M-16, so who knows lol.