Fake Heros

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Great post!!!

Thank you sir! S/F

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Advanced, the easiest way to get that medal is to order one from the son's dad we talked about earlier, he is apparently knowledgeable about them, you might even get a Navy Cross out of it.

Hot Damn - I can add them to my other 2.

P.S. What color is the Navy Cross, you see I've never seen one. I need to know what to wear, but what the hell, it'll probably go with my jeans.

[03Foxtrot]

I agree that the problem of wannabes and posers has grown to become more common then not. There was a time when being a Viet-Nam veteran carried with it a stigma and there was a time when being a Marine combat vet was a lonely existence. Back then, and for a very long time afterward, no one else wanted to be one of us or pretend to have walked in our boots. We were assumed to be drug addicts and baby killers. War crimes and desertion were our public persona. I never accepted the national policy of false assumptions or indifference or misplaced anger directed at those of us who fought in this misunderstood war nor do I subscribe to making excuses for my behavior or looking for ways to explain what others perceive as either my stupidity or misplaced patriotism. I know why I served and I know what and how I performed my duties to my country and my Corps and myself. I make no apologies for my service or my actions and I will not ever take a back seat to anyone who seems to claim what is rightfully mine... the honor and courage and sacrifice by myself and those brave men that I served with. I believe that if the only way some of you feel that you are indeed in the presence of a combat brother from Viet-Nam is if they can produce a disability card or some other form of identification that makes you feel good, then you indeed have a flawed system of verification. I possess no such card and I'm sure I am only one of many who also take exception to being insulted in such a manner. I remain outside the system, by choice, and I'm sure there are many more like me. Part of my mistrust of people is also mistrust of our government, including the V.A. I am one of those nameless men who stood up when so many tried to elude their duty. The merits of this war, of any war, are foreign to the bravery and determination of those who fight the war, in the name of their nation. I served with many heroes and I will never allow some to steal the valor or the honor of these nameless men that I served with. I will always protect their contribution to the safety of our nation and I will always consider it part of my legacy as a survivor to stand up to those who try to protect themselves at the expense of others. My external wounds healed and left small scars, my internal injuries are still open and huge in size. Don't rewrite history and don't throw insults to others who deserve respect for their personal devotion to their buddies, their country, their Corps and themselves.
Semper Fidelis

[Mongoose]

03Foxtrot, I really dont think Russ was trying to be insulting. What he implies is that is a great way to silence a would be war hero. He realizes that not every Nam Marine is in the system. But if that person really isnt a poser and hes not in the system. He would no doubt understand and respond by saying, you know I was one of those lucky ones. I never had a need for the V.A. and Im sorry so many of our brothers were not as fortunate as I was. I served with bn/regt/div. 68-69. We pulled a lot of bush time in the Arizona Territory. An honest vet wont be intimidated. Just as you werent. I know Advanced, and the last man he would insult is an honest Marine that served in V.N. The card showing is just a quick way to cutout a needless story from a wannabe war hero. Its just hard to bear sometimes when someone that sat at home drinking beer and having fun, tells you a b.s. story out of his war journal. Im always cautious about calling a man out. But I can understand those that do. Theyre just fed up with the 12 million V.N. heros thats out there.

[Swampfox]

When I lived in New Orleans I used to frequent this little local bar. There was a fellow that used to hang out there that said he was a Navy Corpsman in a grunt unit in Vietnam. He absolutely would not believe that I was a Marine. I showed him my USMC tattoo and my VA card and still, for some reason, he thought I was lying about it. He would grill me on Marine Corps history and ask me a barrage of other questions. I always thought that it was strange for someone to think I'd lie about something like having been in the Corps. I guess I was wrong. I finally had to bring him to my house and show him pictures.

[Mongoose]

When I lived in New Orleans I used to frequent this little local bar. There was a fellow that used to hang out there that said he was a Navy Corpsman in a grunt unit in Vietnam. He absolutely would not believe that I was a Marine. I showed him my USMC tattoo and my VA card and still, for some reason, he thought I was lying about it. He would grill me on Marine Corps history and ask me a barrage of other questions. I always thought that it was strange for someone to think I'd lie about something like having been in the Corps. I guess I was wrong. I finally had to bring him to my house and show him pictures.

Swampfox, that might have been his way to keep you off balance. So you couldnt ask him any questions.

[dibob]

The only "disability card" I ever had was my report card from high school.

[DanM]

if anyone has dought about my earning the title,i carry a copy of my dd214 with me at all times....

DD214 doesn't prove anything,anyone can make one with a computer and printer.

[SGT7477]

I agree that the problem of wannabes and posers has grown to become more common then not. There was a time when being a Viet-Nam veteran carried with it a stigma and there was a time when being a Marine combat vet was a lonely existence. Back then, and for a very long time afterward, no one else wanted to be one of us or pretend to have walked in our boots. We were assumed to be drug addicts and baby killers. War crimes and desertion were our public persona. I never accepted the national policy of false assumptions or indifference or misplaced anger directed at those of us who fought in this misunderstood war nor do I subscribe to making excuses for my behavior or looking for ways to explain what others perceive as either my stupidity or misplaced patriotism. I know why I served and I know what and how I performed my duties to my country and my Corps and myself. I make no apologies for my service or my actions and I will not ever take a back seat to anyone who seems to claim what is rightfully mine... the honor and courage and sacrifice by myself and those brave men that I served with. I believe that if the only way some of you feel that you are indeed in the presence of a combat brother from Viet-Nam is if they can produce a disability card or some other form of identification that makes you feel good, then you indeed have a flawed system of verification. I possess no such card and I'm sure I am only one of many who also take exception to being insulted in such a manner. I remain outside the system, by choice, and I'm sure there are many more like me. Part of my mistrust of people is also mistrust of our government, including the V.A. I am one of those nameless men who stood up when so many tried to elude their duty. The merits of this war, of any war, are foreign to the bravery and determination of those who fight the war, in the name of their nation. I served with many heroes and I will never allow some to steal the valor or the honor of these nameless men that I served with. I will always protect their contribution to the safety of our nation and I will always consider it part of my legacy as a survivor to stand up to those who try to protect themselves at the expense of others. My external wounds healed and left small scars, my internal injuries are still open and huge in size. Don't rewrite history and don't throw insults to others who deserve respect for their personal devotion to their buddies, their country, their Corps and themselves.
Semper Fidelis

Read the book Stolen Valor, it's full of posers and wannabes who never served but bragged they were in Nam, Semper Fidelis.

[Mongoose]

Its sad its got to this point. I think I can talk to someone for a couple of min. and tell if hes a Marine vet. that served in V.N. In this new Corps with all thier changes and all thier deployments, I wouldnt know which way was up or down. I do know one thing. Im not fixing to start fliping out my V.A. card or my DD214 to prove to some azzhole I was in the Corps or anything else. And Im damn sure not going to bring them home with me to show them pictures. If I have to do all that, we wasnt meant to be friends. S/F

[03Foxtrot]

Like many of you, I too feel like I can see or hear or sense when something isn't right about someone's story. I have read the book 'Stolen Valor, How the VietNam Generation Was Robbed of It's Heroes And It's History', and I've had a copy of it for reference since it was published in 1998. I have never claimed to be any thing other then who and what I am, a Marine grunt who served with the 1st Marines in I Corps, Viet-Nam, circa 1968-69. I am no expert on a lot of subjects but on this particular endeavor, I can attest first hand knowledge and personal experiences and a lifetime of reading material from after action reports to declassified material on the various Operations and fire-fights that I was involved in. On a personal note, my first engagement of any consequence was when my platoon was on the move near dusk to establish a Platoon Patrol Base at a different location and we were ambushed. My first real contact and exchanging fire with the enemy and a whole lot of other firsts for me, including the death and wounding of several Marines, including my first combat officer, my Platoon Commander. My recollections of this incident for over 40 years were based on what I did and saw and heard and felt as a young ignorant boot Marine in his first battle with the enemy. All of my memories these many years were more emotional and mental and personal then they were based on material facts. It was only recently that I was able to locate and read the official after action reports about this incident and it was only then that I could grasp the situation from a different perspective. Someone else who may read and use the official reports to convey or present themselves as being there cannot in any way understand or present the fire-fight/ambush in the same way as someone that was there. Too many facts and precise dates and not enough substance is one of the ways that I can detect an impostor.. I always listen and treat other veterans stories with a respectful and honest open ear and it is only when I hear or sense that something is amiss that I may inquire further and I never speak without due diligence to historical accuracy. After all, memories that are for most of us, 40 plus years old, are sometimes wrong. I know from personal experience how the emotional and mental wounds are very fragile and how easy it is to awaken that which is better left asleep. What I learned from my own experiences that I have given as an example here is that my personal recollections of this ambush and the official report compliment each other and that when you put them together you have a much more complete and accurate picture of that incident and what I experienced. I and you may not have walked in each others shoes but many of us did share the same path and our journey is worthy of remembrance and respect for what we endured and accomplished with much blood shed for our country and our fellow Marine. I will never ask or expect to be asked to provide my DD-214 or other means of identification to someone that I meet. I will handle it on a more personal level and I will either fade away or confront them, both based on what they are trying to do. Stealing the honor and glory of brave men is not something that I can walk away from nor do I think my brothers will either.
Semper Fidelis

[03Foxtrot]

Dave (if I may),
I believe these people have no honor and so what you and I take for granted, they neither care about or understand. They have no concept of how this despicable act affects us or how we consider it paramount to disrespect for both the living and the dead. They seek that which is not theirs and in so doing, they insult and demean the sacrifice of our brothers on the Wall. I assume it is the valor and sacrifice and high esteem of those real veterans that these impostors are trying to acquire through deception and manipulation of facts. It is a great miscarriage of justice for the recent court rulings against the Stolen Valor Act. Still, I will not let these people change my trust and respect and love for my brothers who served with you and I in that same war of attrition. I will assume the best of a veteran and watch for the signs of a brother or a poser and react accordingly.
Semper Fi, Scott

[Mongoose]

Dave (if I may),
I believe these people have no honor and so what you and I take for granted, they neither care about or understand. They have no concept of how this despicable act affects us or how we consider it paramount to disrespect for both the living and the dead. They seek that which is not theirs and in so doing, they insult and demean the sacrifice of our brothers on the Wall. I assume it is the valor and sacrifice and high esteem of those real veterans that these impostors are trying to acquire through deception and manipulation of facts. It is a great miscarriage of justice for the recent court rulings against the Stolen Valor Act. Still, I will not let these people change my trust and respect and love for my brothers who served with you and I in that same war of attrition. I will assume the best of a veteran and watch for the signs of a brother or a poser and react accordingly.
Semper Fi, Scott

Scott, whats sad about it is they arent snot nosed kids or teen-agers. Theyre grown men in thier 50s and 60s mostly. I personally think that its insane that our GOVERMENT passes laws by the hand full, to protect the integrity of any group of mis-fits you can think of. But thinks so little of the integrity of U.S. veterens. And it could be because the same generation of V.N. posers is the same one running this Country. Our own generation. S/F

[03Foxtrot]

Billy,
Good point although I'm sure the majority of our generation cared more then and cares more now then the ones that came behind us. The audacity of our own generation of people who probably never served or maybe protested the war, now trying on an individual one on one effort to assume the mantle of military service to our nation during a time of war. There are times when I think the only reason that the current generation of military personnel get the public support and respect they deserve is because we refuse to allow them to be misaligned and forgotten as we were. The kids in school now, learn very little about the wars of America, except for the politically correct ones, WW I and WW II. From Korea onward, win or lose, why and how we were there, they seem to care not. Thank goodness there is still an abundance of brave and patriotic people willing to fight for our nation, despite the climate of discontent, just as in our war. Forget the war and the warrior becomes superfluous and when our own government encourages protection for the select while ignoring it's obligations to those who already served, is it any wonder that we feel distant to those we fought for ? I for one, will go to my grave confident and secure in the performance of my duties, accomplished to the best of my ability and I know the truth and that is really all that matters to me. My government is still ungrateful and can keep their money and ratings and compensation and leave me with the dignity and integrity and courage that I offered so long ago when my country called me to war. Respect is a two way street and when they disrespect the dead and the living from previous wars and at the same time ask the current generation to fight and die for the same government, I have to ask myself.... has anything really changed ?
Semper Fi, Scott

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03Foxtrot - I always enjoy your posts and your depth, and your unique perspective. I do not enjoy some of your better than thou judgments though. In the story I told regarding "The Card" it was asked of me, not my asking anyone else as dcb188 has stated. Personally I would never ask anyone for verification of their veteran status, I have always relied upon my own in-depth perceptions for the meaning of my reality.

Why did I show my card, because I was there, it was available, I was asked, it cost nothing and it avoided alot of bs. With my first scan of the Marine who asked me for my card I could instantly tell he was one of us, why did he ask me for proof - perhaps he did not trust his own perceptions, maybe a hundred other reasons (I would only be guessing). The simple answer is; I don't know. It was only a story of an experience that I had a couple of months ago - So Chill Out.

In the late 80's I lost everything, including my 3rd wife. I heard an ad for the Vet Center on the radio listing that if any of these things were happening in your life and you were in Vietnam you may have PTSD. I had all of them though I had never heard of PTSD. I went to the vet center to get my wife back. I was in deep shiit pain-wise. I was diagnosed with PTSD.

Between the vet center and the VA I went through a process of 5-6 years of extensive 1 on1, group and shrinks and I emerged from the process with a better understanding of my experience and a 100% disability rating - they gave up on "helping" me because I would not take their drugs.

So you were a Marine in the Nam and you don't have a disability rating or "The Card" - well good for you. Perhaps you're a better man than I am. Perhaps you were a better Marine in every way than I was. I'll not apologize for my having PTSD. I did emerge from the therapy process with the tools to create a reasonable life though there was still the stigma of my diagnosis. I inherently knew there were those that would judge me as weak or a non-hacker, that somehow I was a lesser Marine. All I can say for those folks is f__ them.

Because of many of the reasons you exposed in your post of what it was like for us Nam Vets I have spent my entire life not letting anyone know I was a Nam Marine (excluding the vets I was in therapy with) until about 2 years ago. As you know there was a great stigma regarding us back then.

2 years ago my wife and I retired and I decided to "Come out of the closet as a Nam Marine." I'm a life member of the VFW and the DAV and I'm a member of the American Legion and it's Riders Group (I'm a biker). Wheather you have a "need" to join any of these groups or not is irrelevant, my choices. Everyone now knows that I'm a Nam Marine, those that have asked know where I was, they know that I'm a 100% PTSD combat vet - and most importantly they accept me with no judgments for who I am - they know me. I've been asked numerous times to be the riders group leader but I don't want any political in my life. I'm also invited to all the parties I choose to go to. Life is great. Oh, and by the way, no one here has ever heard me tell a single war story - I'm told they can see it in my eyes. That's just me.

Where I share some of my Nam experiences is here on this forum. Why, it's healing for ME. Here we are all Marines and many here have shared my sweat and mud, I do get pm's. I'm proud of what I did and who I was with and the men I served with.

One thing about where I live down here in Florida there are beaucoup military retires, veterans and snowbirds. And from what I've been told there are posers everywhere though I've only run across a few of them at biker events myself. Why so few, I'm not looking for them. I'm told we probably have more posers here then anywhere outside CA maybe.

In NC what works for you there may not work down here, I'm happy for you that your life has worked out. Maybe mine hasn't been that great by someone else's judgment, but, I'm a work in progress.

It's great that your Nam historian research parallels so much of your personal recollection of the Nam, as for me I don't even know where I was most of the time or the real names of many of the guys I was with. I'm told that PTSD is a deep emotional response to trauma that kinda washes over a great deal of ones cognitive memories. Where you imprinted everything with precise mental notes, I imprinted with precise emotional notes, to over simplify. Different maps, different territory, different experience. Be glad you didn't walk in my footsteps.

Back to the initial question "Why did I show my Card?" I guess for the same Bullshiit reasons I'm responding to this post.