Marine Conscientious Objector?????

[bootlace15]

After rereading the original post,we have all missed the boat on this one except one person,thats the Marine who was claiming the CO status. The Marine went to Iraq even though he claimed CO status,may have been in the rear filling sandbags,and not seeing combat. There is another side to this. What if the enemy raided his post and the Marine got shot at? The question is would he have fired back? No one can answer that unless they were that Marine..So since he claimed the CO status and had light duty,he is still a live hero as he served his country during battle...........

bootlace15 out

everything else is horsesh!t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[10thzodiac]

"Is a young man bound to serve his country in war? In addition to his legal duty there is perhaps also a moral duty, but it is very obscure. What is called his country is only its government and that government consists merely of professional politicians, a parasitical and anti-social class of men. They never sacrifice themselves for their country. They make all wars, but very few of them ever die in one. If it is the duty of a young man to serve his country under all circumstances then it is equally the duty of an enemy young man to serve his. Thus we come to a moral contradiction and absurdity so obvious that even clergymen and editorial writers sometimes notice it."

—H.L. Mencken, Minority Report

[bootlace15]

My brother 10th. Right on!!!!!!!!!!!! Semper Fi Marine............

bootlace15 out

[10thzodiac]

After rereading the original post,we have all missed the boat on this one except one person,thats the Marine who was claiming the CO status. The Marine went to Iraq even though he claimed CO status,may have been in the rear filling sandbags,and not seeing combat. There is another side to this. What if the enemy raided his post and the Marine got shot at? The question is would he have fired back? No one can answer that unless they were that Marine..So since he claimed the CO status and had light duty,he is still a live hero as he served his country during battle...........

bootlace15 out

everything else is horsesh!t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brother, Bootlace15, you are right, everything else is horsesh!t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My 74-year-old half brother is a CO from the Korean era. I remember when he was in high school he wanted to join the Air Force like his friends. Mom talked him into going to church with her. Earlier she was a Roman Catholic but because the church did not recognize her subsequent marriage, her being a divorcée she switches to Lutheran. Then her father was having the Jehovah Witnesses stop by for bible studies and she switched over to them, bringing my brother along. The rest is history.

My half brother was very athletic and a halfback on the 1950 Illinois State Champion Football team, Proviso East H.S. One teammate was Astronaut Eugene Cernan, “The last man on the moon”.

My brother was not the passive type. He liked physical combative sports, and actually enjoyed ruining someone’s day with a quick punch to the larynx.

Well, he studied to be a Jehovah Witness while learning how to be a machinist at a Naval Munitions factory in Forest Park, Illinois making torpedoes. The job was a vocational class though high school. When baptized as a Jehovah Witness he became an ordained minister, he then resigned his employment making torpedoes.

Later when drafted for Korea, he refused the draft and I remember the FBI coming to the house handcuffing him (handcuffing a pacifist?). While home awaiting trial my dad (PTSD) had an excuse now to kick the proverbial redhead stepson out.

Because of the concurrent Naval munitions employment while studying the Jehovah Witness (bible class meetings) the Judge found him guilty and sentenced him to two years in Federal Prison, Ashland Kentucky. From the stories he told me what happens in Federal Penitentiaries makes my Marine Boot Camp experience seem not so bad. His prison turnkey was a WW II Marine Captain that just loved CO's, so my brother got special treatment, if you know what I mean.

BTW, all our family WW II Vets tried talking him into the army and almost succeeded after they got him plastered. We had a active duty Army cousin who went from Private to Colonel in WW II that would sponsor him as a golden haired boy in the army and he'd never have to be a combatant. When he sobered up, he refused even that.


Years back, he told me that he could have been a good soldier, but he chose not to kill or be a part of killing because of his religious beliefs.

He is an old man now and was recently admitted into a nursing home with two broken legs. A former football player on a state champion team, low-hurdles track star, professional roller-skating (guard) and ice hockey.

He was not the same after he got out of Federal lock up; in fact, he was dis-fellowshipped by the Jehovah Witness’s. He was a tough guy and although he would not overtly start a fight, he was available though. Being a roller-skating rink guard provided many opportunities for fighting & women. Besides plenty of fights, he met both (2) his well-to-do young wives there.

He told me once at the roller-rink while working as a guard they had a Marine that knocked his girlfriend down instead of taking a fall his-self, he told the Marine not to do that anymore. Well, the Marine got all huffy and wanted to fight, my brother told him, "Hey, my brother (me) was a Marine and a nice guy, how come you are not acting nice?" My brother then suggested taking their quarrel outside onto the open-air veranda (on roller skates). The Marine refused (smart) and said, I will see you in the parking lot afterward. My brother said, "Why wait?" The Marine said, "Because I use "things" when I fight!" My brother is fast on his feet and replied, "Good, as soon as I see you in the parking lot, I'll run you over with my car!

Incidentally, he is still a believing practicing Jehovah Witness and you don't want to get him started talking about Armageddon or the Resurrection

Personally the only religious hang-up I have is, every-time I pray in one hand and sh!t in the other, only one hand gets full :D

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I take one exception here.

The use of the term 'hero'. Just because one serves in combat, or in a combat zone, does not mean one rates that particular term.

I have issues with the rampant use of the words "hero" "brave" "courage" etc nowadays. They are bandied about like prizes in the crackerjack box. "Everyone's a winner!"

The use of these terms, in this manner, cheapens them in my opinion.

[bbearmills]

Hey 10th,
you seem to delight in making straw-man arguments. Stay with me on this one now, dude: 1)Yes, our President did serve in that unit but, that has nothing to do with my statement, so why did you try to sound "smart" instead of addressing the point?(Oh yeah, that "exhaustive" study you cite tended to omit many relevant facts, such as then Lt. Bush had already earned the reserve credits he needed so that he was allowed{papers had been signed by his commander} to not attend drills and to work on the campaign). Funny how facts get in the way, huh?
2)Again, you use a straw-man argument to get away from addressing the point: What the heck does some illiterate boob with a bomb on his back (the 72 virgin believers) have to do with the U.S. Marines or any U.S. serviceman serving this country with honor? Unless you believe they are equals. And yes, different God.

[poloclub]

Put A Gun In His Hand And Place Him At The Head Of The Squad, And We'll See If He Strongly Objects To Gettin His Rear Shot Off. I Bet He'll Defend Himself Or Get Shot Running In The Wron Direction.

[10thzodiac]

Hey 10th,
you seem to delight in making straw-man arguments.

Let's just say, I find it amusing everybody thinking the same thing, maybe nobody is thinking then

Stay with me on this one now, dude: 1)Yes, our President did serve in that unit but, that has nothing to do with my statement, so why did you try to sound "smart" instead of addressing the point?(Oh yeah, that "exhaustive" study you cite tended to omit many relevant facts, such as then Lt. Bush had already earned the reserve credits he needed so that he was allowed{papers had been signed by his commander} to not attend drills and to work on the campaign). Funny how facts get in the way, huh?

1) Bush was one of a type -- young men like former vice president Dan Quayle who supported the war but sought refuge in National Guard units that were not used in Vietnam. Yes, he served

2)Again, you use a straw-man argument to get away from addressing the point: What the heck does some illiterate boob with a bomb on his back (the 72 virgin believers) have to do with the U.S. Marines or any U.S. serviceman serving this country with honor? Unless you believe they are equals. And yes, different God.

2) Is it not the duty of a young man to serve his country under all circumstances then it is not equally the duty of an enemy young man to serve his ?

SF

10thz

[LeftyCharette]

Ski was our NBC rep for DSU3 in Haditha. He refused to even touch a weapon. During our workup we liked to play a game with him called hot potato. A few times whenever we would catch him sitting down someone with an M9 pistol would sneek up behind him, throw the (unloaded) pistol in his lap and yell "Hot Potato". This as*h*le would yell and jump as if we poured boiling water in his lap. I havent seen rogosky since our company came home april 1, 2007

[LeftyCharette]

Our company had been in Iraq for a month and I had already been medevaced stateside before rogosky even stepped foot in country. He went to Iraq without a weapon, and never left the Haditha Dam compound once he got there.