No More Scuzz Brushing on the Island?!

[usmc987332]

We have bantering the word FEAR around lately. Some believe Thumping is used to instill fear in the Marine. I have said the Marine Corps taught me how to cope with many of my fears, and many of my fears have actually been cured by my training. But never once did they attempt to instill FEAR in me, and they didn't. I don't know what is behind thumping, but I don't think it was meant to instill a long lasting fear in the recruit. I do know it was probably used for one DI to try to outdo other DIs. DIs of my day really needed that ego. I guess there isn't any such thing as an X DI either. So you DIs out there, what do you think.

Now, back to the purpose of this thread. The day the Marine Corps becomes based on FEAR, that is the DAY I become an X Marine. I still have my Greens in my closet. That is the day I will burn them. The day the Marines going are going into a fight because they are afraid they have lost their war. Going into a fight I was always afraid, but The Marine Corps had taught me how to overcome those fears.

Remember what Roosevelt said about Fear.

If you are motivated by FEAR, get out of the Corps!!

[usmc987332]

Nothing wrong with using fear as a tool to instill discipline, Bob.
Please ignore what I have said on the subject and just refer to Major General Raymond L. Murray, former CG of MCRD Parris Island, who said fear first, then discipline or fear first, then pride, but he definitely used the word "fear" to mean that they used it down there as a tool, to help build the foundation of absolute and unquestioning obedience to orders. I'll try to find the exact quote, someone from that era 1963-1967 might remember his exact words.

Let me understanding what you are saying. If I read you right, you are saying use FEAR as a learning tool, not something that is intended to become a part of the Marine. You know, if I had fear of my superiors, I would probably be trying to appease them instead of doing my job.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but at what point should FEAR become a moot factor. Me, I could not work under someone I was afraid of. Marine Corps or civilian.

[usmc987332]

Silver star at Guadalcanal and one for Tarawa, and led the troops at Chosin Reservoir, so although no one is infallible, the late Maj Gen R L Murray's words about it always rang true with me......we're afraid to rough up the recruits too badly, and now the scrubbing of the deck might have been done away with .
Maybe it's time for two week orientation classes at PI, taking notes, graduate, go home.....not now, but maybe within 10 years, as we phase out all the really dangerous stuff like occasional thumping and scrubbing down the deck.

Whoa!!! Now you are putting words in my mouth and the mouth and the mouth of General Murray. I think he is saying to learn the men there is an easy to be obedient, but you've got to get the men's attention first. While I don agree with thumping, I think there are many ways to achieve the same result.

DIs have a big ego and are occasionaly going to step out of bounds, regardless of the method used. Thumping out of control causes serious injury too frequently. Of course, over zealous application of other methods, also, results in physical injury.

Of course, I am judging DIs on the basis of what I saw 66 years ago. I just believe the things that made good DIs 66 years ago still makes good DIs. What I say about DIs is not meant to be any to DIs.

[usmc987332]

Somewhere in my basement, i know i still have the one issued to me at the island.
We used them on the decks, laundering our clothes on the wash racks next to the barracks, cleaning and brushing the horsehair greens and blankets to remove lint.
I doubt them having made a Harder Brush.
Perhaps they're makeing softer recruits ?

I still have one, too, it isn't much use. It doesn't have any bristles left. Maybe I'll just put it in my medal display case.

[thezero]

That's gotta be a load of crap, if recruits are *****ing about cleaning with the scuzz maybe they should just get the hell out they signed the papers. It's called grab a can o' man, let the balls drop and suck it up.

[USNAviator]

I doubt them having made a Harder Brush.
Perhaps they're makeing softer recruits ?

I was going to say I can't believe 18, 19, 20, yo's are going to Sick Bay (now called Medical I guess) because they spent too much time on their knees.

Amazing and sad if true

[usmc987332]

Bob, Maj Gen Murray definitely said something on the order of "fear, then pride". But it was definitely something like that.
The fear ends upon graduation, but I'll tell you what seems to me to be a fact, and that is we all have some fear in us, and it acts as a deterrent and a tool for discipline, for example, a lot of us have been in situations where we would have liked to do something to someone, but fear of the consequences stopped us, or caused us to think. At work, we have all thought of telling the boss the title of an old Johnny Paycheck country song, but fear of being fired stops us and helps us control ourselves.

zero, I have never heard that expression OPEN UP A CAN O MAN, that is hilarious, I love it

Appreciate your thoughts, however, I would not work for a man I feared. If I thought the job was worth having, I would figure out what makes the man tick, and overcome my fear of him or quit.

I know you have read my posts and know I still had pleanty of them when I left PI,
but I left there without some the fears I had when I came, and learned to cope with those I still had. I don't believe I left with any new fears, and I think that is what the Corps intended to happen.

[USNAviator]

Bob cracks me up, is still on that thumping thread from some time ago, we never will agree but we keep talking about it......Bob, meet you here five years from now, the same thread will still be going

Bob, I think y'all are a bit off point here. With all due respect sir, this thread is about scuzz brushes not fear. I think Dave might want to meet you in Chesty's Hooch regarding your opinions about fear and training.

Take care!

[usmc987332]

And yet, after all the discussions we have about today's young Marines---the fact remains that they do an excellent job on the battlefields......so either we are just nostalgic wanting to have it the way it was in the good old days, or there is something we don't know about, because in spite of the lessening of fear, they still produce real Marines at PI and SD......

I had a grandson graduate from PI a couple months ago. I think he had pretty much the same attitude I did, but better trained.

[usmc987332]

Bob, I think y'all are a bit off point here. With all due respect sir, this thread is about scuzz brushes not fear. I think Dave might want to meet you in Chesty's Hooch regarding your opinions about fear and training.

Take care!

I think this is my big boo-boo. I tried to create a new thread but went wrong somewhere. I don't even know how to undo what I have done in error. I thank you for being my "Salley" on this site.

I had no intention to mix utility brushes up with FEAR. However, I do think we had at one non-bathing squad member that probably have FEAR for the utility brush. We were not very creative in naming our brushes in my day.

[USNAviator]

I think this is my big boo-boo. I tried to create a new thread but went wrong somewhere. I don't even know how to undo what I have done in error. I thank you for being my "Salley" on this site.

I had no intention to mix utility brushes up with FEAR. However, I do think we had at one non-bathing squad member that probably have FEAR for the utility brush. We were not very creative in naming our brushes in my day.

Bob

Sir you owe us/me no explanation. I thought you might get a better response regarding your thoughts on another thread started by Dave....

[USNAviator]

Hi Dan, you and I posted at the very same time, see number 37 just before yours.....

Great minds....lol.

[usmc987332]

Bob

Sir you owe us/me no explanation. I thought you might get a better response regarding your thoughts on another thread started by Dave....

It was my intention to create a thread called: Under what circumstances would you consider becoming an X Marine.

[usmc987332]

Bob, go to top of Open Squad Bay and go to the button NEW TOPIC, or let me know if you want me to start it there, either way is fine with me----

Open Squad Bay might be the best. It might be the best to keep it away from Dave's since that will make it a continuiance of FEAR which will be my basic reason for becoming an X-Marine.

I think I have learned my lesson and not defend my position. Instead try to learn if there are other reasons for wanting to become an X-Marine. I was not my intention to infringe on Dave's thread.

[Garyius]

We never used the brush on the decks in boot camp. 1987 at San Diego. It was deck towels only in the squadbay and mops everywhere else.

We only did the wash rack thing with the brushes maybe twice, too. After that it was washing machine details going over to the old huts.