Women back from combat face cold reality

[Lisa 23]

Back from combat, women struggle for acceptance
By Kimberly Hefling, Associated Press Writer – 55 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Nobody wants to buy them a beer.

Even near military bases, female veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't often offered a drink on the house as a welcome home.
More than 230,000 American women have fought in those recent wars and at least 120 have died doing so, yet the public still doesn't completely understand their contributions on the modern battlefield.

For some, it's a lonely transition as they struggle to find their place.
Aimee Sherrod, an Air Force veteran who did three war tours, said years went by when she didn't tell people she was a veteran. After facing sexual harassment during two tours and mortar attacks in Iraq, the 29-year-old mother of two from Bells, Tenn., was medically discharged in 2005 with post-traumatic stress disorder.

She's haunted by nightmares and wakes up some nights thinking she's under attack. She's moody as a result of PTSD and can't function enough to work or attend college. Like some other veterans, she felt she improperly received a low disability rating by the Department of Veterans Affairs that left her with a token monthly payment. She was frustrated that her paperwork mentioned she was pregnant, a factor she thought was irrelevant.

"I just gave up on it and I didn't tell anyone about ever being in the military because I was so ashamed over everything," Sherrod said.
Then Jo Eason, a Nashville, Tenn., lawyer working pro bono through the Lawyers Serving Warriors program, stepped in a few years later and Sherrod began taking home a heftier monthly disability payment.

"I've never regretted my military service, I'm glad I did it," Sherrod said. "I'm not ashamed of my service. I'm ashamed to try and tell people about it because it's like, well, why'd you get out? All the questions that come with it."

The Defense Department bars women from serving in assignments where the primary mission is to engage in direct ground combat. But the nature of the recent conflicts, with no clear front lines, puts women in the middle of the action, in roles such as military police officers, pilots, drivers and gunners on convoys. In addition to the 120-plus deaths, more than 650 women have been wounded.

Back home, women face many of the same issues as the men, but the personal stakes may be greater.

Female service members have much higher rates of divorce and are more likely to be a single parent. When they do seek help at VA medical centers, they are screening positive at a higher rate for military sexual trauma, meaning they indicated experiencing sexual harassment, assault or rape. Some studies have shown that female veterans are at greater risk for homelessness.

Former Army Sgt. Kayla Williams, an Iraq veteran who has written about her experience, said she was surprised by the response she and other women from the 101st Airborne Division received from people in Clarksville, Tenn., near Fort Campbell, Ky.

She said residents just assumed they were girlfriends or wives of military men.

"People didn't come up to us and thank us for our service in the same way. They didn't give us free beers in bars in the same way when we first got back," said Williams, 34, of Ashburn, Va. "Even if you're vaguely aware of it, it still colors how you see yourself in some ways."

Genevieve Chase, 32, of Alexandria, Va., a staff sergeant in the Army Reserves, said the same guys who were her buddies in Afghanistan didn't invite her for drinks later on because their wives or girlfriends wouldn't approve.

"One of the hardest things that I had to deal with was, being a woman, was losing my best friends or my comrades to their families," Chase said.

It was that sense of loss, she said, that led her to get together with some other female veterans for brunch in New York last year. The group has evolved into the American Women Veterans, which now has about 2,000 online supporters, some of whom go on camping trips and advocate for veterans' issues. About a dozen marched in this year's Veteran's Day parade in New York.

"We just want to know that when we come home, America has our back," Chase said. "That's the biggest thing. Women are over there. You want to feel like you're coming home to open arms, rather than to a public that doesn't acknowledge you for what you've just done and what you just sacrificed."

Rachel McNeill, a gunner during hostile convoys in Iraq, said she was so affected by the way people treated her when they learned she fought overseas that she even started to question whether she was a veteran.
She described the attitudes as "Oh, you didn't do anything or you were just on base," said McNeill, who suffers from postconcussive headaches, ringing in her ears, and other health problems related to roadside bomb blasts. The 25-year-old from Hollandale, Wis., was a sergeant in the Army Reserves.

She said she seemingly even got that response when she told the VA staff in Madison, Wis., of her work. She said she was frustrated to see in her VA paperwork how what she told them had been interpreted.

"It would say like, 'the patient rode along on convoys,' like I was just a passenger in the back seat," McNeill said.

Other women have had similar complaints. The VA leadership has said it recognizes it needs to do more to improve care for these veterans, and as part of changes in the works, female coordinators are in place at each medical center to give women an advocate. The agency is also reviewing comments on a proposal to make it easier for those who served in noninfantry roles — including women — to qualify for disability benefits for PTSD.

Sen. Patty Murray, a member of the Senate Veterans' Affairs committee, recently asked VA Secretary Eric Shinseki and Defense Secretary Robert Gates to ensure that service members' combat experience is included on their military discharge papers, so later they can get benefits they are entitled to.

Research has shown that a lack of validation of a soldier's service can make their homecoming more difficult.

"What worries me is that women themselves still don't see themselves as veterans, so they don't get the care they need for post-traumatic stress syndrome or traumatic brain injury or even sexual assault, which obviously is more unique to women, so we still have a long ways to go," said Murray, D-Wash.

Chase said one challenge is getting female veterans to ask for changes.

"Most of us, because we were women service members, are so used to not complaining and not voicing our issues, because in the military that's considered weak. Nobody wants to hear the girl whine," Chase said.
McNeill said that when she's been out at restaurants and bars with the guys in her unit, they make sure she gets some recognition when the free beers go around.

"They'll make a point ... usually to say, 'She was over there with us, she was right next to us,'" McNeill said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_female...inding_a_place

[Rocky C]

That is sooo Sad but sooo True.
Let us Hope and Pray that the Department of Veterans Affairs makes good on their Promise to All Women Veterans.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

[Lisa 23]

I didn't realize it was this bad for females in combat.

[Isrowei]

Not to diminish anyone's particular feelings... but I've seen this story go around a few times and it's always the same names cited as examples. Usually promoting a book.

It seems strange to me that it mentions several times that "they didn't buy us a beer" as a exemplary point for the argument. I'm sorry, I don't get beers bought for me very often either, but it doesn't diminish how I feel about my service.

While I'm sure it's true for both men and women that there are some who return feeling lost and displaced and have a hard time transitioning to "normal" society, I don't really see the foundational evidence to imply it's an epidemic as put forth in articles such as this.

Also, tellingly to me is that whenever women and service-related issues are mentioned in an article, sexual assault is almost always listed as an excuse for whatever condition or disability that is being decried. Whether it is homelessness, inability to get a job, feelings of displacement, or anger against other servicemembers. Again, usually with the same cast of citations and references. We know all sorts of bad things happen... but the freqency implied is mind-numbing... as if every military man out there is a rapist-in-waiting if not already an offender. Obviously this is not true.

I completely reject articles with such scare-tactic foundations.

[Rocky C]

For Those Of Us That Care About Our Almost 2 Million Women Veterans !!!

Veterans Administration For Women Veterans.

http://www1.va.gov/womenvet/

Semper Fi,
Rocky

Women Veterans Population
October 2009

The total veteran population in the United States and Puerto Rico , as of September 2009, was approximately 23 million. The population of women veterans numbered 1,824,198. States with the largest number of women veterans were California , Texas , Florida , Virginia and Georgia . State-by-state totals are as follows:

Alabama	34,902	Montana	7,921
Alaska	8,406	Nebraska	11,198
Arizona	46,992	Nevada	21,133
Arkansas	19,496	New Hampshire	8,793
California	167,086	New Jersey	28,438
Colorado	37,699	New Mexico	16,379
Connecticut	15,297	New York	65,116
Delaware	6,365	North Carolina	68,380
District of Columbia	3,881	North Dakota	4,567
Florida	139,474	Ohio	60,704
Georgia	75,198	Oklahoma	26,221
Hawaii	11,495	Oregon	25,226
Idaho	10,371	Pennsylvania	63,593
Illinois	56,656	Puerto Rico	7,216
Indiana	33,015	Rhode Island	5,053
Iowa	14,744	South Carolina	34,915
Kansas	17,844	South Dakota	5,873
Kentucky	24,372	Tennessee	38,669
Louisiana	26,958	Texas	152,571
Maine	10,230	Utah	10,740
Maryland	48,615	Vermont	3,696
Massachusetts	26,473	Virginia	90,234
Michigan	45,371	Washington	55,060
Minnesota	23,077	West Virginia	11,700
Mississippi	17,723	Wisconsin	28,023
Missouri	37,287	Wyoming	4,400
		Territories/Foreign	9,355

Total Women Veterans 1,824,198

[thewookie]

This story is a urban legend. Don't buy it.

Not to belittle women, there are some good women in service; but, war is a man's thing.

We learn war from birth on up. We play war, we dream war, we glorify war, we wage war, and we suffer from war. It is what men, as a whole, are born to expect.

Women are creators of life, men are destroyers of it. It is simply how we are designed.

No offense to any women; it is, how it is.

[commdog7]

Women service-members do feel a little left out because there are fewer of us and it is more difficult to identify female Marines. Even on MSG duty, a bunch of us Marines will show up at an event and everyone will know the males are Marines, but they have to ask me if I'm a Marine. Female Marines get left out quite a bit, but it really isn't that bad. In some ways, it has its advantages. Being overseas, it is good to be able to blend in with the population and avoid looking like Marines- terrorism awareness.

There are a lot of advantages and disadvantages to being a female Marine, but overall, I think it balances out nicely.

[Marine1391]

I can understand where this article is coming from. I have never been the one to take notice of the fact that I'm a woman. I blend in with the other Marines just fine. I do notice that I get treated differently in public though. Like when I do community events for the Marines, people tend to pay more respect to the males I'm with or to ask them questions instead of me. I guess it's not really the publics fault though. Our society is in a transition phase right now where we know that women are capable of being tough, but we don't always know how to treat women as warriors.

As for anyone who thinks that women are the givers of life and that men are the takers...it takes a man and a woman to give life, and I'm damn sure that I'm capable of taking life too. People are simply products of their environments. If us girls were given toy guns to play with when we were three, I bet we would have turned out a lot differently.

[slug]

TheWookie hit it spot on. But not only are men the destroyers, we are also the protectors of our women. It doesn't make sense to us to put them in danger with us, that's why we oppose it and why it affects us so much more greatly when they do get cut down.

Women need to stop trying to fit in with the guys by demanding to be treated like men and need to learn their place and accept it.

[commdog7]

Women need to stop trying to fit in with the guys by demanding to be treated like men and need to learn their place and accept it.

Most seasoned women Marines do not want to be singled out by gender. We don't want special treatment, we want to be treated the same. We have a harder time gaining the respect of our Marines, but that's just something we accept and move on. So what if I'm a woman? Who cares... I can shoot, can't I? Gender should not be an issue, performance is all that matters.

I can tell by your post that you haven't been in very long and/or haven't worked with too many female Marines. Most of the younger Marines do not understand the role of women in the Corps; they lack that 'team' mentality. The more experienced Marines accept the place of women in the Corps and treat us like Marines rather than females.

The Marines I work with expect the same out of me as they do with any other Marine- gender has nothing to do with it. To them, I may not have a penis, but I have balls.

[Isrowei]

... I may not have a penis, but I have balls.

Classic!

And true.

[sparkie]

"The more experienced Marines accept the place of women in the Corps and treat us like Marines rather than females."

Amen to that, Sis.

[ForeverMarine]

Nothing against you commdog but im with wookie and slug.....I never got to work with women marines bc but I ran across them a time or two.....and before all this hazing stuff came out about my second year in, it was still a unsaid rule not to even yell at women as you would your own guys.....

In fact, I had a friend renlist and went to a unit in PI and after a month there, got demoted for saying bad things to her while he was yelling...but it was nothing he would not of said to a male marine...so tell me where is the right in that? It is sad too, bc I just talked to him and he got out of the Corps last week after 8 years disgusted with it....and when i knew him the Marine Corps was his life, was a 2 time war vet, and motivating as hell....Hell I just had a friend join and he is logistics, I was talking to him last night, bc he was one of my great friends in highschool....and I asked him how he liked it (not even a year in) and he was like his duty station is not the Marine Corps bc its so relaxed and chill bc its basically a WM unit.....

I dont know its just sad to me....I hated/loved my first two years of the Marine Corps....always being the "BOOT"...doing all the things grunts do to their younger guys...but it was a break you down process and build you up....I remember when I made Cpl....all those NCOs that I thought hated me, became my best friends, and I still talk to them today...even flew out to Colorado to visit one last thanksgiving.....but yea, thats just the way it was...hell I got my blood stripes on ship...ha so much pain, but the pride lasts forever!

I dont know, just my two cents....and for that matter, I have seen some badass female marines and could run circles around some male marines....but its few and far between...

[Isrowei]

No one is saying that male and female Marines are exactly alike. They aren't. In fact, put two male Marines side by side and they won't be the same. What you might be able to yell at one... the other one would report you for (doesn't matter if you think that makes him weak, it's true).

The equality comes in when I can trust that regardless of gender, Marine M (for male) and Marine F (for female) will do their respective job to the best of their ability and make sure I get home alive. THAT... is what I trust. And that is why male or female makes no difference to me.

As a leader, if I can only work effectively with people who tolerate my foul mouth and boorish behavior... I am a poor leader and a smaller person indeed. The Corps does not expect me to be effective only with those people I work best with or who I'd drink a pint with after work... I am expected to be an effective leader to ALL Marines.

My 2 cents, as it is. I don't care who is pulling triggers to my left and right, I just want them to be competant in what they're doing as they are doing it. I have to trust that the Corps as a whole is upholding those standards so that .. male or female beside me, they have a legitimate place being there... just the same as I do and for the same reasons that I do.

[ForeverMarine]

My 2 cents, as it is. I don't care who is pulling triggers to my left and right, I just want them to be competant in what they're doing as they are doing it. I have to trust that the Corps as a whole is upholding those standards so that .. male or female beside me, they have a legitimate place being there... just the same as I do and for the same reasons that I do.

I totally agree with you.....but how do you find out if the person is competant? Im not saying you have to yell or talk dirty....i never said that....I just come from a "keep an in house mentality." I never believed in paperwork or ratting someone out....bc how does that build trust within the unit if your always having to watch your own back? and Im glad the companies I was with and my Gunnys and LTs all believed the same way......

Plus you might have a great stateside Marine....you think he is the perfect Marine, and then he might buckle under the pressure of war.....you never know.....So that is why, all the way from boot camp to your unit (combat units I would say), you hold that tight knit tradition.....yelling at a Marine is sometimes not just to yell....its to make a situation chaotic and see how that Marine will deal with the pressure....same reason during training we have live fire in obstacle courses and a bunch of instructors yelling.....once again to see how Marines deal with the pressure....As a "boot" yea I was hazed, but I was also taught, and guided...My NCOs wanted to see if i would follow orders and carry them out to my best ability, and I would trust them not to put me in a situation that they didnt think was the right thing....and when I picked up NCO it was vice versa....I needed to trust my men would be like Aye Sgt and do it for the great good of our PLT....and not just be looking our for themselves....I dont care if it was about getting yelled at, missing sleep, etc etc...sometimes you need to suck it up and just do you job bc its not about yourself...its about the Marine Next to you...and if everyone Marine had that mentality, then every Marine of Mine comes home....and then I did my job. And I know, my Marines will thank me forever...

And I tell you sir, as a Plt Sgt....If I had a Marine come to me from another squad or plt and heard he reported somebody for a charge I thought was weak.....you better believe I am not going to want him in my PLT or any of my squads.....bc honestly I would rather find out who can handle the stress and pressure and still carry out orders now, in training, rather than out in the battlefield where that Marine can have me or my brothers killed......Thats why I love the Marine Corps.....we actually weed out the weakest links.....SemperFi!