Purple Hearts proposed for Fort Hood victims

[Ttomes]

No way on the PH. Maybe a commerative medal of some kind or some other kind of recognition but don't devalue the honor of the PH.

[Wyoming]

Your new strategy is pretty funny, but sadly they still don't get it.

I caught that too.... Pretty funny, but as you said, it's sad that it hasn't been picked up on.

But the 64K question is, 'Why? Why don't they get it?'

[shrapneldude]

No way on the PH. Maybe a commerative medal of some kind or some other kind of recognition but don't devalue the honor of the PH.

Why would it devalue the honor of the Purple Heart? These men were serving their country, and a crazed religious zealot with ties to a terrorist organization that has declared WAR on America shot and wounded and killed them. Whether or not they end up receiving the Purple Heart and what they refer to this act (terrorism, crime, etc...) IF that is hashed out by DoD and Congress, why would it devalue the Purple Heart?

I don't see it. An American warrior is wounded or killed by an enemy agent while serving his country. He gets a Purple Heart. I know guys who got a "PH" for concussions, and minor scrapes and abrasions and nobody tore into them for taking their medals.

Is anyone on here a leader with the Military Order of the Purple Heart? My membership has lapsed for some time, but I'd be curious to hear what they'd have to say as to whether awarding these men the medal would devalue it.

[Hotel4341]

The more I think about it, the more I'm against this. The point in my head that bugs me is not all victims of terrorist attacks rate the PH. Go back to the service members serving at the Pentagon on 9/11, or even further back to the OKC bombings. McVeigh was a former soldier who disliked the government, and his bombs killed two Marines (friggin' hooahs!). The precedent has already been set that while these tragic events and their victims should always be remembered, they still don't rate the PH.

[0331 2 0369]

Ever since the 9-11 attacks, the phrase "Act of Terrorism" has taken on a whole new meaning with so many different views. Unless he is labeled a terrorist by the government, it was not an act of terrorism. Do I consider it an act of terrorism? From the info I have read and seen, yes I do and they should label this guy a terrorist and try him as such. Just like the OKC bombing, an act of terrorism by definition but done by someone that was not an actual terrorist as many people view. Religion really has nothing to do with terrorism. Sure it plays a role when we profile people but doesn't make someone a terrorist just because of their religion.

What if this turd was a Southern Baptist Preacher and shot all those people? Would we be calling it an act of terrorism? No, we would be calling him crazy. Would they be considered for the PH then? No. Just food for thought.

[Lupo22]

Ever since the 9-11 attacks, the phrase "Act of Terrorism" has taken on a whole new meaning with so many different views. Unless he is labeled a terrorist by the government, it was not an act of terrorism. Do I consider it an act of terrorism? From the info I have read and seen, yes I do and they should label this guy a terrorist and try him as such. Just like the OKC bombing, an act of terrorism by definition but done by someone that was not an actual terrorist as many people view. Religion really has nothing to do with terrorism. Sure it plays a role when we profile people but doesn't make someone a terrorist just because of their religion.

What if this turd was a Southern Baptist Preacher and shot all those people? Would we be calling it an act of terrorism? No, we would be calling him crazy. Would they be considered for the PH then? No. Just food for thought.

I see your point Gunny but you said that OKC was an act of terrorism but not by a terrorist? What defines you as a terrorist then? Do you have to goto boot camp or something to earn that title? It just doesn't make much sense to me. As I said before though, I belive that more information needs to be gathered as to this scumbags ties to Yemen and terrorist groups there.

As of right now, I don't know whether or not I think they should get it. I'm leaning towards yes though with what I've been able to read so far.

[doc h fmf]

I DONT THINK THEY RATE THE PH but they are in my thoughts and prays

[0331 2 0369]

I see your point Gunny but you said that OKC was an act of terrorism but not by a terrorist? What defines you as a terrorist then? Do you have to goto boot camp or something to earn that title? It just doesn't make much sense to me. As I said before though, I belive that more information needs to be gathered as to this scumbags ties to Yemen and terrorist groups there.

As of right now, I don't know whether or not I think they should get it. I'm leaning towards yes though with what I've been able to read so far.

This is were views differ on the definition of terrorism and terrorist acts. OKC is a tactic used by terrorist. Therefore people want to call it a terrorist act. Same as the dirtbag in Texas. Tactic that terrorist use but was carried out by someone that has not been considered a terrorist as of yet. Both are tactics used by terrorist so I guess you could call it an act of terrorism but were they actually carried out by terrorist? We have our own "Homegrown" terrorist here in the states. I guess what it comes down to is what is your definition of a terrorist. There are many different definitions out there depending on what the source is. They all say close to the same but most of them leaves a grey area for interpretation.

Where the kids that carried out the Columbine shooting terrorist? This is an example of where views will differ on terrorist and acts of terrorism.

[zx6rdr]

The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

[0331 2 0369]

The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.

That is the key word. That can be viewed as a catch-all. So the Columbine shooters can be called terrorist if you use that word.

[zx6rdr]

Agreed Gunny.

Terrorist operations usually fall into 7 different catagories:

1. Bombings
2. Arson
3. Armed assaluts/Raids and Ambushes- May be designed to gain access to funds, resources or just to EMBARRASS THE GOVERNMENT
4. Kidnappiing/Hostage Taking
5. Hijacking/Skyjacking
6. Assassinaiton
7. WMDs

HMMMMMMMMMMM.... Definately makes one wonder......

[KaosDad]

Here's a serious question. Did the men and women that were injured in the attack on the Pentagon on September 11th receive Purple Hearts?

I didn't see this question explicitly answered (read the thread twice - I could still be blind!).

shrapneldude implicitly answered it, but here are two sources I found:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_Memorial
"Opened in September 2002 after Pentagon repairs were completed, the America's Heroes Memorial and chapel are located where American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the building.

The memorial includes a book of photographs and biographies of the victims. It also includes five large black acrylic panels: one displays the Purple Heart medal awarded to military members killed in the attacks, another shows the medal given to civilians, two back wall panels are etched with the victims' names, and a center panel shows tribute statements. The small chapel, located in an adjacent room, has stained glass windows with patriotic-themed designs."

This indicates that Military Personnel were awarded the PH at both sites.


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/news....aspx?id=44815:
"Military and civilian personnel killed or injured in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks will be recognized for their sacrifice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Sept. 27.

Service members will receive the traditional Purple Heart medal."

Again - if this has been answered & I missed it, sorry.

[Lupo22]

Good find KaosDad...if thats the case, I think that the argument FOR PHs is strengthened.

What this guy did falls under #3 of ZX6rdr's post...He took out 40+ people with semi-automatic weapons in a highly populated and planned enviroment. I don't think he was driving in to work and said "Hmmm...lets go shoot this place up". It was probably planned. And I'd like to think his "allah is great" and "Muslims should stand up against the aggressor" make for quite the argument that he was, in fact, a terrorist! And thats not even factoring in his ties to terrorist networks...

[Hotel4341]

Thank you for that KaosDad.

I'm still of the opinion that there needs to be some proof that this guy was actually part of a terrorist cell, and not some chitbag who allegedly tried to get in contact with one. If that were the case, then the precedent has been set to give those soldiers a PH.

[silverdollar]

I don`t see what terrorism has to do with it, I thought that you received the PH for being wounded during combat with the enemy? if that is the case, nobody should receive the PH for wounds caused by an act of terrorism.