My Career Path

[JWDevilDog]

Well, Marines, I have come to a bit of a crossroads.

First, a bit of background. I enlisted to serve my country, because I love America so much. I wanted to be among the best this country has to offer. I wanted the pride and discipline of being a Marine. I want to protect and defend America in ways that civilians cannot.

I love being a Marine, and in no way regret enlisting (I threw away free tuition at college, where I was studying material that I love, so I could enlist). However, I can't stand my MOS field (Logistics). Sure, it is important and someone has to do it, but I would rather if that someone was not me.

I want to be a career Marine, but I do not want to do this in my MOS. So, the way I see it, I have three viable options for my career. I can A) do a lat-move to Counter Intel/HUMINT, B) do MSG duty, or C) do security forces.

I would do CI/HUMINT because, like I said, I want to make a difference and do something worthwhile. CI Marines deal with the enemy first-hand (interrogations), and gather valuable intelligence from human sources. This is probably the most vital kind of intelligence, in terms of the big picture and long term war. Also, I want to be fluent in a needed language, such as Arabic or Pushtu.

MSG duty is appealing because I like the idea of safe-guarding important people and sensitive information. Plus, it would get me valuable training and would make me more well-rounded as a Marine. Also, I want to see as many countries as possible, and experience them to some degree. I know it is a three year tour of duty, and at the end you return to your original MOS. So, at that time I would have to do one of my two other options.

Security forces appeals to me because at the end of the tour, I believe you are placed in an infantry unit, and your PMOS is now 03xx. If I am wrong in that, please correct me. Obviously in infantry I would be doing exactly what I signed up for. I would get my chance to deploy to the war, and do what I could to defend our country. Also with SF, I would get to guard VIPs and sensitive information, as in the MSG option.

As of right now, I am leaning more towards the CI/HUMINT route.

My reason for posting this thread is simply to ask for advice. I know there is no set in stone answer. I also know that some advice or whatever that you Marines give me might not apply to me. I know that the only way I can truly make this decision is by knowing myself, and none of you really know me that well.

However, any general advice you might have, about anything, is appreciated. Who knows, it might just hit home with me and lead me more towards one option rather than another. Or really anything you want to say is great. If you have stories about MSG, or tales working with CI Marines, or anything, works for me.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and Semper Fidelis.

[Petz]

well, counter intel as I heard it… well it's not all squirly spy ****… you'll do massive amounts of reports, sit behind desks and travel more than you'll want to without the luxury of sight seeing ( in SOME cases ). It does have it's perks and I'm sure you know them well.

MSG is awesome, do this as a senior Cpl and you could come back a SSgt if you're **** hot to get meritorious promotions.

SF is a grunt thing right? wookie should know what's up but he was a 3521 so I don't think you have to be a grunt in order to get that, I suspect it's just like MSG in the 8000 series of MOSs... (b-billet)

what ever your MOS is I don't recall it, so tell us.

[JWDevilDog]

Thanks for the reply, SSgt. Yeah, I've heard CI isn't all secret squirrel sh*t, but it does have some of that in it. Honestly the part that appeals to me the most is interrogations and the like. But I have heard there are a lot of reports to write, which makes sense. I have a feeling, while the actual report writing would be boring, it wouldn't be too bad, because the material would at least be interesting.

In terms of SF, this is what I have learned. Whether it's credible or not, I don't know. But it seems if you get into SF, you go through SOI to become an 03xx, and after that you are on a 2-3 year (I forget which it is) tour as a security forces Marine, and then 2-3 years as a grunt (it is a 5 year contract total). In terms of more details about that, I don't know. I would assume if you were to re-enlist after the 5 years, then you would either go back to your original MOS, or maybe you would just stay in 03xx?

[Petz]

you really should ask wookie what he had to do... he didn't start off as a grunt so he'll have the scoop for you.

[PaidinBlood]

SSgt...I don't think I like the way you say....GRUNT... SF

[Crusader20]

Devil Dog, For my two cents, i would lat move into the intel feild and then pick up some rank. Once you have gotten that, then move into the MSG field. I take it you are single and are planning to stay single. The way i see it, you will go off to MOS school for intel, (that may be one year depending on speech), complete a 3 year asssignment to your unit(s). Then, you will be ready for MSG duty. That will be in the 7th or 8th year of your carreer. That will take you to 10 to 12 years. You will be a SSGT by then and then get a better options on what and where you want to go. Make the move first, then MSG school. They will always want intel folks in MSG's and espically Sgts and above.

Make the move first. that is my option.

[Isrowei]

I agree with Crusader. Making a lat move only get harder as more time goes by and you pick up more rank. If you don't like your current MOS, then going MSG first would only be a temporary removal from your MOS.

I've heard that the CI/HUMINT field is pretty competitive.

Good luck, the future is what you make of it!

[Petz]

Sir, they are not only competitive but they promote fast, and they don't take junior Cpls. you need to be able to pick up Sgt after you finish CI school.

then he'd be a SSgt within two years of picking up Sgt as there is a high turn over rate with SNCOs getting higher paying civilian jobs and not going career Marine.

then he's have to wait one year as a SSgt before he can go on MSG duty.

Keep in mind that CI is always short and because of that you will more than likely not get to do a B-Billet, this not being a problem as those you compete against in your MOS don't get to do one either.

His Career path is muddled with uncertainties which will make his choices all that much more critical as he will only get to make them once.

[USMC Mukhabarat]

Sir, they are not only competitive but they promote fast, and they don't take junior Cpls. you need to be able to pick up Sgt after you finish CI school.

This is untrue. I'm an 0211 Marine and currently conduct 0211 recruiting for the National Capital Region and all Marines outside of the FMF.

We actually prefer first term lat-movers (ie. junior NCO's) because if they are found suitable for lat-move into our MOS they will have the opportunity to grow their knowledge of the MOS before pinning on SSgt and put into a position as a HUMINT Exploitation Team (HET) chief.

SSgt's and soon-to-be SNCO's often have a much tougher hill to climb in the MOS because they are sometimes thrust directly into a HET chief position after graduating the basic course due to their rank. At that point they have to be able to adapt quickly and often suck up their pride and turn to some of their Sgt's who may already have a couple years of CI/HUMINT experience.

The bottom line is that if you are a junior Cpl and are accepted into the MOS, you will end up picking up Sgt as soon as you become eligible. As a Cpl in our MOS you will be treated no different from a Sgt who makes a lat-move.

And yes, as others have said, B-Billet's are virtually impossible to get once you lat-move to 0211. The MSG duty is somewhat redundant anyway because once you are in the CI/HUMINT field you will have much more opportunities for foreign travel to various countries than the MSG program would provide you with. (In the 7 years I've been an 0211 I have worked OCONUS in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, UAE, Morocco, Chile, and France as well as in CONUS in D.C., Miami, and Los Angeles.)

The opportunities for travel are endless.

[thewookie]

In terms of SF, this is what I have learned. Whether it's credible or not, I don't know. But it seems if you get into SF, you go through SOI to become an 03xx, and after that you are on a 2-3 year (I forget which it is) tour as a security forces Marine, and then 2-3 years as a grunt (it is a 5 year contract total). In terms of more details about that, I don't know. I would assume if you were to re-enlist after the 5 years, then you would either go back to your original MOS, or maybe you would just stay in 03xx?

If you are reenlisting as a non 03 to go to SF that's great, that is what I did, but they don't give you the 03 MOS designator once you're done. And you do not go through SOI. You leave your current unit and go down to Ballahack road in the bowels of Virginia for the 6 week basic security force school. Once you finish the school you go to your SF unit. Once your time with SF is over, you go back to your primary MOS, or do like I did and got out. Well, I got invited to go work at Dam Neck and then at the basic school teaching CQB school, and then I got out.

Grunts, upon completion of their tour with SF go back to the fleet to be 03's - non 03s go back to their primary MOS.

Boots who go through using the UV or Security Forces option, they are 03's when they are done, but they were 03s from the get go, or once they finished SOI.

Hope that helps, let me know if I can help.

[JWDevilDog]

Thank you, gentlemen, for your responses. I found them all helpful in some regard. Unfortunately, I do not have time to adequately respond right now, as I have to get to work (on a MCMAP course, so I don't have to be at the shop until 0830).

I'll respond on my lunch break, and thank you all again. I greatly appreciate it.

Semper Fidelis

[JWDevilDog]

Well, after reading through your responses again, it seems like the most logical step would be to do a lat-move to CI/HUMINT sooner, rather than later, and along down the road maybe trying for MSG. Although, like you gentlemen have hinted at, it is completely possible that I will fall in love with CI, and not want to do a B-Billet.

Wookie, thanks for the clarification on SF. I don't think I will take that path, as it doesn't end up leading to an 03xx field. I would not want to go back into the Logistics field, so lat-moving into CI first makes sense, logically.

USMC Mukhabarat, thank you for that valuable information. Here's another question for you. I took the DLAB prior to boot camp, and scored a 104. Is this score sufficient to learn a Cat4 language? Or would I have to re-test and try for a different score? Or settle for a Cat3 language?

[SSgt Ramsey]

As a former Career Planner and my experience with LatMoving Marine's....I was always pushing for them and offering them what I could dependent on their record and GT scores....and put a few into the Intel field.

A lot of the time, amazingly, the individual Marine's don't want to do all the necessary leg-work and meet the rquirements for submission for the MOS i.e. SSBI etc. for Intel, thus precluding them.

If you meet the general requirements, start ASAP to get what you need done so that when it does come time for you to submit for the Latmove, all your ducks will be quacking in unison and marching in a straight line. Seriously, do this now while you have time.

[USMC Mukhabarat]

That 104 DLAB score should be good to go. The threshold for the Cat-4 languages (ie. Arabic, Mandarin Chinese, etc) used to be a DLAB of 100 but they recently raised it to 105 a while back. They would waive the one point difference for you no problem though.

Glad to hear you are interested in pursuing a language. That is a skill set that is worth it's weight in gold in the operating forces and after you choose to leave the Marine Corps.

When you decide to start the lat-move process just contact 3rd CI/HUMINT Company (3rd Intel Bn) at Camp Hanson and they will take it from there.

Good luck with it brother!

[JWDevilDog]

SSgt. Ramsey, aside from starting my SSBI (actually, I have already started the paperwork for my TS clearance, now I just need to get it ok'd by my company commander and then submit it), what else can I do to start preparation? Everyone I have talked to has said CI is one of the most difficult MOS's to get into.

Also, I meet all the general requirements (except for being an NCO, obviously) for CI/HUMINT.

Makhabarat, when specifically should I contact 3rd CI company? Simply at the time that I have submitted my lat-move package, or should I wait for my SSBI to finish before I do either? Also, what exactly (in terms of training, specific MCIs, etc.) can I do to prepare for the lat-move? By this, I mean specifically the CI board that interviews new prospective CI Marines. Is there any knowledge that I can start reading up on now, for example? If I understand it correctly, while my lat-move package could get approved, I still wouldn't be allowed to attend the school until I win over the board.

Sorry for all the questions that probably seem very elementary to you more experienced Marines, but I want to make sure I do everything right to make the lat-move go as smoothly as possible. I don't want any stupid mistakes on my end. I have made a few of my NCOs aware of my eventual intentions to lat-move, and while they are supportive, few really had any concrete answers, especially when it comes to CI/HUMINT. I get the feeling that the usual lat-move rules do not apply when it comes to this MOS, as it is so critical. But unfortunately all my NCOs gave me differing answers.

Also, I didn't want to run to the CRS just yet, because one of my Cpls. said that the Gunny would just laugh at me if I started talking about lat-moving into this MOS so early. He suggest I wait awhile before talking to the CRS, to give myself some more credibility.