A Soft Core Marine Corps?

[Pete0331]

BOOKS???? HHHMMMMMM...why do you THINK "people" write books?? Do you think that "Platoon" was an accurate portrayal of Viet Nam military operations?? SHOCK VALUE!!! Show me ten negative accounts of an incedent...and I'll show you at least as many positive ones!! Be careful...please......DOC

I hated that movie doc.
It took all the negative propoganda and presented it as truth.
No, I wasn't involved in Viet Nam, but I have talked to enough of them and read enough to know that the stories portrayed were the exception and not the rule.

It had pretty much every douchbag stereotype that was believed by the public during that timefame.

[Steve0231]

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a Rifle Squad Leader, 4th Platoon, Company K, Third Battalion, Seventh Marines (Reinforced), Regimental Combat Team 7, First Marine Division (Reinforced), on 14 April 2004. Corporal Dunham's squad was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the town of Karabilah, Iraq, when they heard rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire erupt approximately two kilometers to the west. Corporal Dunham led his Combined Anti-Armor Team towards the engagement to provide fire support to their Battalion Commander's convoy, which had been ambushed as it was traveling to Camp Husaybah. As Corporal Dunham and his Marines advanced, they quickly began to receive enemy fire. Corporal Dunham ordered his squad to dismount their vehicles and led one of his fire teams on foot several blocks south of the ambushed convoy. Discovering seven Iraqi vehicles in a column attempting to depart, Corporal Dunham and his team stopped the vehicles to search them for weapons. As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty, Corporal Dunham gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.

Soft? I think not.

[ColdBlooded]

My drill instructor (on daddy time) told us that "this fu*king country is getting too babied and weak in the civilian world." When he said this he explained that the civilians wanting to become Marines are too affected by society outside the military lifestyle so it comes with them into the Marine Corps. In my mind I'm thinking that's why this is called the MTV generation.

[mwc4892]

if a drill instructor isnt supposed to do something he still dos it. i think bootcamp nowadays varies a great deal. My buddy got out 2 weeks before me and when we were tellin boot stories he had nothin good. He watched batman with his senior and other movies. He wished he had some of the stupid ass games played with him. The golf company that graduated when i first got there had its instructors sent to the brig. Made recruits brush thier teeth with clp brushs and practice front brakefalls off footlockers.

[Steve0231]

My drill instructor (on daddy time) told us that "this fu*king country is getting too babied and weak in the civilian world." When he said this he explained that the civilians wanting to become Marines are too affected by society outside the military lifestyle so it comes with them into the Marine Corps. In my mind I'm thinking that's why this is called the MTV generation.

The Corps isn't getting weak...American kids are. And, like the saying goes "you can't un-teach azzhole."

[thewookie]

if a drill instructor isnt supposed to do something he still dos it. i think bootcamp nowadays varies a great deal. My buddy got out 2 weeks before me and when we were tellin boot stories he had nothin good. He watched batman with his senior and other movies. He wished he had some of the stupid ass games played with him. The golf company that graduated when i first got there had its instructors sent to the brig. Made recruits brush thier teeth with clp brushs and practice front brakefalls off footlockers.

Time changes, but some things still don't. I can relate to your story very much, Marine. After bootcamp in June of 1991 I can remember speaking to some other Marines at MCT that were in our series, they were shocked at some of the stories I told about what our DIs did to us. Keep in mind, I went in on the buddy system, and at MCT when story time came up my buddy was right there beside me to verify all the crazy sheet that happened to us there. We had some craaazy DIs that were insane that's for sure. Other guys we spoke to who were there at the exact same time had totally different experiences. Go Figure.

Each platoon at each Depot is in it's own little world, the DIs are different and create a unique dynamic experience - the only thing that's the same is the training schedule which they all follow with their own "side bars" for entertainment.

[Tim Self]

COMMDOG7...Where did you get your info about Viet Nam Era Marines being criminal, dope smoking, and obviously...ignorant azzholes?? I see that you're 21...lots of life experiences in The Corps, HUH? Are you an 0311, and how much combat experience do you have?? What leadership role do you have now...in Cuba? HABLAS ESPANOL? You've given out a lot of negative statements about USMC Veterans, NOT a good idea!!.....PLEASE stay away from what happened during the Viet Nam war....you weren't there...I was, AND I KNOW!! Only compare the USMC history, from the late 70's and today...PLEASE!!....DOC

I agree Doc. Draft war era you did get crimiinals, dope and yes ignorant azzholes. You also got, "jail or military" folks. POST Vietnam, still ignorant (couldn't read), jail or military, drop outs. Bad, not necessarily but when training it could be tougher and DI's did get frustrated. Did I get hit? No. I was raised abused so it was a break for me. Does getting physical make some one hard? Dam straight it does, as long as there are not underlying psychological problems already. Remember Pvt Pyle, FMJACKET?

Is the Corps softer today than 30 years ago. Maybe not but in the minds of us who were there 30 years ago the perception is yes. Maybe because we believe the kids are softer than we were. But then it's hard to remember us when we were 18.

OK, you are authorized to fire away, I have very thick skin. Just my opinion.

[Isrowei]

I'm surprised this topic has come up again... by a boot no less.

ColdBlooded... you are a joke. 6 months in and you act like you have a clue. The fact that you even bring this thread up shows that you were either watching too much Full-Metal Jacket before boot or sucking up to some old fart at a bar who had his memory embellished by a few too many beers.

The rest of you Marines should remember that EVERY generation has complained about the "newer" generation as being softer and kinder. It's a fact and in 10 years it will still be a fact.

The one truth is no matter what you think about today's Corps versus the "old" (which just means... older than you boot) Corps, today's Marines are still winning battles in honorable warfare, taking the fight to enemy just as their brothers did years before them.

And one last thing for those of you who revere Marines like SSgt Glass or SSgt McKeon ( for those of you with longer memories ), you should remember one thing we hold dear as Marines:

Marines are not hypocrites. Every Marine is charged by his promotion warrant to be the example to junior Marines and to follow the LAWFUL orders of those senior to him.

You cannot teach discipline by showing a lack of discipline by disobeying orders. A drill instructor is just another Marine, subject to the orders of those senior to him and the directives that govern recruit training. A Marine who takes it upon himself to "teach" outside the rules of recruit training violates his oath as a Drill Instructor and brings dishonor upon himself and the Marine Corps because he has demonstrated the one quality that is virtually unforgiveable, especially as one who is directly charged with being the epitome of the Marine Corps to the next generation:

He has willfully disobeyed lawful orders.


Now, THAT is the definition of soft to me. A Marine would willfully chooses which orders he will follow and which ones he will disregard is a cancer. Being a drill instructor is no excuse and makes his errors all the more egregious.

[Gunner 0313]

So if a DI puts his hands on a Recruit you see that as disobeying a lawful order Lieutenant ? This trash should be in the hooch.

[ecfree]

Hey Lt,you're 100% correct.....calm down and have a cold drink......

[Dave Coup]

The only book I've read that hasn't been 'embellished ' with stories to improve sales is the Bible. Most of what has been written about Viet Nam was by stinkin' leftists.

[Wyoming]

When spit shining and JOB's and weekly field days went out the window, along with mess and guard duty, then it all went downhill.

All of this said by a VietNam Veteran that never smoked dope, ain't a criminal, got a highly paid for edjumacasun, and approves this message.

[Isrowei]

So if a DI puts his hands on a Recruit you see that as disobeying a lawful order Lieutenant ? This trash should be in the hooch.

Outside of the bounds of the RTO, yes, in fact it is. Unless you've picked one up lately and read it cover to cover, perhaps you don't know what you're talking about.

The RTO (Recruit Training Order) gives plenty of latitude for physical, hands-on training without crossing the boundaries into abuse.

Come back to the original issue: When is it EVER ok to willfully ignore or disobey a lawful order?

[Isrowei]

When spit shining and JOB's and weekly field days went out the window, along with mess and guard duty, then it all went downhill.

All of this said by a VietNam Veteran that never smoked dope, ain't a criminal, got a highly paid for edjumacasun, and approves this message.

You're a hoot Big Al!

Weekly field days are still a go (though, probably not like you remember or even I) .They still do JOBs and guard duty sometimes. Sadly spit shining and mess duty have gone the way of the dodo.

[temarti]

mess duty have gone the way of the dodo.

Is that due to procurement or just a unpolitical way to describe the current employees of the chow hall, haha