Expert Rifleman Requalification Bars

[jerryd6818]

I qualified three times during my enlistment. All three times I qualified as Expert (documented in my SRB - Weapons Firing Record section). My unit didn't issue a requalification bar on my second and third qualifications.

I've searched and read MCOs until my eyes are falling out. The only thing I can find is this:


01August2007
MCO 3574.2K

2. Re-qualification Bars

a. When a Marine who has qualified as an Expert the previous year requalifies as an Expert with the rifle on a re-qualification detail, that
individual earns a re-qualification bar to be attached to the Rifle Expert
Badge.

b. The first re-qualification bar earned is recognized as the second
award since the original Expert Badge was earned first. Subsequent Expert requalification Bars will be issued by the Marine’s Commanding Officer.

c. Marines are authorized the subsequent re-qualification bar each time
they fire expert for record. The Expert qualifications do not have to be
earned on back-to-back years (i.e., if a Marine fires Expert during Recruit
Training, Sharp Shooter the first year in the Operating Forces, and Expert
the third year in the Operating Forces, then the Marine rates an Expert badge
with a 2nd Award re-qualification bar for the current FY).

d. Only one re-qualification bar earned by the individual will be worn.

With all that said, my question is; do I qualify for the third award bar or just the second award bar. The reason I ask? Two of the qualifications were on the A range (the first being in boot camp of course) and one was on the B range.

I hope I've made this clear.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

[Brewer0311]

I know that the requal bars aren't issued. You have to to buy it from clothing (7day store, PX, annex doesn't sell them) As far as what you rate to wear I couldn't tell you. I know under your basic info on MOL it will tell you "Expert Qualifications: 2" or 3 or 1. I'm assuming that's what you rate. I however didn't shoot expert at boot and have only went to the range once in the fleet so I have only shot expert once. Hope that helps you out somewhat.

[Big Jim]

c. Marines are authorized the subsequent re-qualification bar each time
they fire expert for record. The Expert qualifications do not have to be
earned on back-to-back years (i.e., if a Marine fires Expert during Recruit
Training, Sharp Shooter the first year in the Operating Forces, and Expert
the third year in the Operating Forces, then the Marine rates an Expert badge
with a 2nd Award re-qualification bar for the current FY).

This is true...but if you shot below expert on the current year...you have to wear your CURRENT qualification badge. It can get confusing I know...but that doesn't seem to be the case right? Like Brewer said, you have to buy those things...and the Commanding Officer just has to make sure those things are made available to you for your current uniform accessories. But, if you're off active duty...just go to a surplus store...I see those things there all the time for a buck or two! Good luck!! ~Jim

[thewookie]

[quote=jerryd6818]
With all that said, my question is; do I qualify for the third award bar or just the second award bar. The reason I ask? Two of the qualifications were on the A range (the first being in boot camp of course) and one was on the B range.

quote]

Sounds like you rate to wear a third award. I'm not sure what a B range is, was it a KD course? A Known Distance course, the same as the other two or was it some type of combat qualification course? If you qualified on a KD course 3 times as expert, and it's your current classification then you rate to wear the 3rd award.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Jerry:

To sum up....

Once you shoot expert the first time, any time you make expert again, you can add a bar to the shooting badge. So, if you shot expert in Recruit training, you rate the 'basic' badge. You get to the fleet, have a bad week, shoot marksman. The next year, you shoot expert again. Now, you get to wear your crossed rifles again with a '2nd award' badge. And so on.

Units no longer issue the re-qual badges, you have to buy them yourself.

Lastly, the MCO states you wear what you last shot. That goes for both rifle and pistol badges, for those who rate em.

Back in the days of musketloaders, your rifle qualifications were in your SRB and it was easy to check. Now, it should be on your training record and/or master brief sheet.

[jerryd6818]

Jerry:

To sum up....

Once you shoot expert the first time, any time you make expert again, you can add a bar to the shooting badge. So, if you shot expert in Recruit training, you rate the 'basic' badge. You get to the fleet, have a bad week, shoot marksman. The next year, you shoot expert again. Now, you get to wear your crossed rifles again with a '2nd award' badge. And so on.

Units no longer issue the re-qual badges, you have to buy them yourself.

Lastly, the MCO states you wear what you last shot. That goes for both rifle and pistol badges, for those who rate em.

Back in the days of musketloaders, your rifle qualifications were in your SRB and it was easy to check. Now, it should be on your training record and/or master brief sheet.

Doesn't look like anyone checked my profile. I am from back in the days of "musketloaders" (M-14 with 20 round magazine)

I knew I wasn't making the question clear. What I'm trying to find out, is if the 'B' course qualifies to be used as criteria for wearing requalification bars.

While both courses are know distance, the 'A' Course is the one we fired in boot camp. Fifty rounds, twenty from the 200 yard line, twenty from the 300 yard line & ten from the 500 yard line. The 'B' Course is fifty rounds but they're all from the 200 yard line. (I think. Could have been 200 & 300 but I think it was all at 200 yards)

thewookie No wonder you came closest to figuring out my question. Dang, dude. Looks like you spent a lot of time putting rounds down range.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Now I see.

I would ask the questions then...

1: Did you qualify as expert on it?

and,

2: Did that qualification count as your annual rifle qual?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then I'd say you rate the award.

When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

Does that help?

[thewookie]

thewookie No wonder you came closest to figuring out my question. Dang, dude. Looks like you spent a lot of time putting rounds down range.

Yes, normally I feel pretty comfortable answering range questions, but you have me here!

With that additional info I'd say you rate a 2nd award. I think the B course you described is more of a BZO confirmation type of course. Back when I worked at the range at Dam Neck, on Friday after we finished qualing them we would then break them for chow, and then after chow we'd spend the afternoon running them through something like the B course you described. And I think you're correct it was from the 200 and 300 if I remember correctly. Been a few days,,,

Semper Fi

[thewookie]

When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

I've heard of this in extreme circumstances or in locations where a KD course isn't possible or available. We didn't have a "typical" KD course in Greece either but they ran annual quals there also. I guess it all boils down to whether or not the CO signs off on it, then if it's in your book then I guess it counts!

[jerryd6818]

Now I see.

I would ask the questions then...

1: Did you qualify as expert on it?

and,

2: Did that qualification count as your annual rifle qual?

If the answer to both is "Yes", then I'd say you rate the award.

When I was at Marine Barracks Annapolis, we qualified on our own rifle range, also with our duty weapon, the M-14. I shot expert twice, and wore the 2nd award bar. Our course was NOT the regular A course.

Does that help?

Answer to #1 is yes
Answer to #2 is I think so. 'B' Course was Dec '64 and 'A' Course was April '65
Both recorded in my SRB.

Not like I'm going to be wearing them anytime soon (let's hope) but I would like them displayed upon my death and want them to be accurate.

Thanks to all for your expertise and opinions.

The Few. The Proud.
Jerry D.

[Quinbo]

If I remember correctly the "B" course was designed for units that did not have a 500 yard range available. There are also units qualifying in indoor ranges and yes it does count as an annual requlification based on the signature of the training officer and Commanding officer.

[ssgtedusmc]

I qualified marksman in boot camp in December 1974, then marksman again once I got back to Pendleton from Japan in 1976. The I shot expert next year and the year after both on KD courses. I didn't shoot the next year being in school again and then after I got to El Toro I shot on a B course in late 1980 which was the last time I had the opportunity to requalify before I got out in 1983. I didn't shoot expert on the B course and when I asked the admin people which badge I was to wear I was told the expert badge with the 2nd award bar since the B course didn't change my qualification for record. The rifle range at Camp Pendleton where I requalified three times was the same range that I fired at when I was with the airwing at El Toro. The range was a mile from the 7th Regiment and was run by the airwing and was named El Toro range. It had firing lines at 200, 300 and 500 yards. So, it may have been up to the individual command to determine which course was the course used to determine the qualification badge and which course wasn't.

[JRHD72]

I was in 4 years 72-76 qualified for record 5 times shot rifle expert 4 times what should my bar read?

[JRHD72]

addendum

[JRHD72]

more for the above. boot camp m14 rifle expert 9 bulls