Service "A" in civilian court

[jellyfish2183]

I have to appear in court in December for a reckless driving ticket. I was wondering if the Service Alphas are authorized for wear when going to a civilian traffic court. About a year ago, I had a friend who had to go to court for DUI. He wore his Alphas to court, but this was when his Gunny went with him. And lucky for him, the arresting officer never showed up.

So yeah, I was wondering if they are authorized to be worn. I figure that it might help me convince the judge to lessen the charge. I got a ticket for going supposedly 61 mph in a 35 mph zone. And this is in a road where the posted speed limit is constantly jumping from 60 ~ 35 ~ 65 ~ 35, etc. etc. It happened about 4 days after I got back from deployment. And the arresting officer doesn't know that I'm Marine. I didn't know which board to post this at, and I felt that it wasn't appropriate to post it in the poolee board.

[thewookie]

wear them. I got pulled over in VA Beach once for not using my headlights at night and they got me for OUI or the old DUI. This was back in 96, I came out of a club and I was heading back to base and I forgot to turn them on because the strip down there is so lighted up, and I was buzzzed, and someone actually flashed me before the cops pulled me over and I was like, WTF, haha, what a fool. Any way, I went to court with my Alpha's on and they reduced it to basically nothing and continued it without a finding if I was good for 6 months. I'm not promoting going out and getting a DUI and then get in uniform to get out of the ticket or trouble, but it happened to me and it worked. Plus I think I paid a grand or so for some attorney to say a few words, what a job he had, I was in court, and actually in front of the judge for like 1 minute. But it was worth it, I have no record of any DUI's, well, they can see it if they really look, but they can't use it against me, I don't think, if I ever got stupid like that again?

[Chumley]

jellyfish2183,

The uniform is probably safe, but you never know .....it may or may not be in your favor.....depends on who likes Marines when you show up.

Best option: If you have any friends at all that are police, or maybe an MP?? you might get them to put in a call to the arresting officer on your behalf. Usually at court, that officer has a lot of say in what the judge hands you.

You can call the officer yourself, and ask to meet him early before court to discuss it, but you may not get anywhere - it's the officer's call.

You can get a lawyer, but it'll cost you ( see thewookie's post ). The lawyer will usually work the DA or Asst DA ahead of time and they usually reduce it on your behalf. You can always call the Asst DA yourself, but you'd better do it right, or nada.

In NYS, the law just changed. If you get points on your license, not only do you pay your fine in court and deal with the insurance co., but now DMV assesses their own penalty surcharge for carrying points too. I still call it double jeopardy, but they don't seem to care what I think.

I've considered wearing a uniform before to civilian court ( back when I still wore a uniform ) and I always worried that it would come back to bite me through my USMC command.

(If you can't get a call made from another officer, and don't get a lawyer)
I would dress pretty and wear a tie ( even skivvies for this ), with a very fresh haircut, go early, try to meet with the officer and make sure he knows you are a Marine. You may get lucky. If you wear a uniform, I worry that some prick will say "YOU should know better and screw ya????".....it's 50/50.

Next time, make sure you identify yourself as a Marine before the officer writes a ticket. Do not argue if you get one anyways.

Good luck Marine!
SFi
C

[thewookie]

I also agree with Chumley as far as going the steps of contacting the arresting or issuing officer. At least in my case it helped because they can influence the DA. I also brought him a few awards certs and stuff when I met him in person, it helped. I don't know if I'd jump the chain, and go directly to the DA, start with the direct officer that you dealt with.

And this is another reason why you should always have a USMC sticker on your car, always. It will reduce the odds that you're given a ticket, or that is what I'm told. Not going to get you out of murder, redrum, but it doesn't hurt for traffic stops. Maybe one of the Law Enforcement guys on this site will confirm that, but either way it's a good thing.

[capmarine]

speed limits-if you are saying that driving on a highway the speed limit is 65 and drops to 35,WITH NO SPEED LIMIT SIGNS INBETWEEN,that is illegal.by federal highway safety rules speed limits can not drop over 10mph. let me explain-if you are going down a road and the speed limit is 70mph,the next sign can not be posted at more than a 10mph drop-60 is ok,but not 55.

[jellyfish2183]

thewookie, what coincidence! I'm stationed in Virginia Beach right now! But that's not where I got my ticket in. Were you stationed here as well. If so, what unit? Anyway, I've never been to the strip (I don't drink), but a lot of my friends have and they've driven back to the barracks drunk on a nightly basis.

Chumley, I understand what you mean about how wearing it may have a reverse effect. It all depends on the whim of the judge. I got pulled over in the rural Sussex County.

But here comes the sad part. There is a sergeant in my shop who also works for the Virginia Beach Police Department. But we're not on the best term, so I refuse to ask for his help. I don't swallow my pride easily. But hey, even I can see that my pride and dignity in myself sometimes becomes a fault. But that's off topic.

All in all, I think I will wear my Alphas. Gives me a chance to show off the new ribbons and the pistol badge I've earned while on deployment. If the judge happen to not like Marines, then so be it. He/she's probably not going to like me in the first place simply because I'm an outsider and I'm not black (remember, this is a RURAL area). My being a Marine is the least of his/her concerns.

By the way, the reason I didn't have a USMC sticker on my car was because it as a rental vehicle. I was on my way to pick up my new car from the dealership. Ironically, last Friday my car (which had less than 740 miles on it) was rear-ended by some Petty Officer in the Navy. So I'm definately ****ed off royally right now.

When I'm asked to give a statement, I'm just going to tell them the following:
It's only been 4 days since I got back from my tour of duty overseas when I was issued the ticket.
I'm unfamiliar with the area.
Speed limit was jumping up and down constantly.
I understand that these aren't excuses for my infractions. But still I ask that you take these factors into consideration when issuing your verdict.

My ticket would be about $250, including court cost. Sussex County is one of those places NOTORIOUS for traffic stops. As a matter of fact, a little bit more than five minutes after I was let go, the same arresting officer pulled a CARGO TRUCK over! It's that bad! Being that it's a rural community, citations are where most of their revenues come from. It's that kind of place. However, I was very compliant when he stopped me and made no arguments. So my biggest fear right now is that DMV may suspend my license (this is only my first speeding ticket, and my second traffic violation ticket), and that it might come back to my command.

Thanks for all your help!

[Phantom Blooper]

I'm not black (remember, this is a RURAL area).

jellyfish,I live in a rural area too and I'm not black either.....what the hell does this comment have to do with the original posting?


Now to your posting: Good luck! Your statement to the judge sounds truthful. What you have to consider is the points on the license and insurance points if found guilty. They can hang with you anywhere from 3-5 years and make the premiums go up and different testing procedures when you go for driver license renewal.

P.S. Hows your dog?

[jellyfish2183]

My dog is not doing as well as I hope for. He's got a severe ear infection in both ears. I think it's because the foster family doesn't know how to take care of him. I'm taking him back home to his old vet (the vet that his previous foster family took him to be seen) to have him checked. Thanks for asking.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

First, sorry about your car. That sux.

Second, it's worthwhile to wear your alphas. Make sure you are humble as all git out.

If the ticket is only your first, you probably won't get a suspended license even if found guilty. You'll likely get 'positive' points against your license and that's it.

The insurance is what is going to nail you if you get convicted, hopefully you won't.

As far as arguing about signage and such, it's an extremely risky manuever in traffic court. I assure you, the judge knows exactly where the signs are and what the limits are, and may be radar/lidar etc certified himself. YOU are responsible for obeying the signs, and trying to argue the old 'federal law says....' dodge will just *ss off the judge. I've never seen that particular arguement work in traffic court.....and I've written well over 1000 tickets for speeding alone.

Your statement sounds ok, but I'd change a few bits....

"It's only been 4 days since I got back from my tour of duty overseas when I was issued the ticket.
I'm unfamiliar with the area.
Speed limit was jumping up and down constantly.
I understand that these aren't excuses for my infractions. But still I ask that you take these factors into consideration when issuing your verdict."

Is what you wrote..

Instead, try this:

"Your honor, I had just returned from Iraq and had been home four days when I was issued the citation by the (deputy/officer). I believed I was travelling the legal posted speed limit based on the last sign I saw. Obviously, I was mistaken! Thank you for taking this into consideration when you issue your verdict and the sentence sir"

This sounds better in my opinion.

[LCPLE3]

First, sorry about your car. That sux.

Second, it's worthwhile to wear your alphas. Make sure you are humble as all git out.


Instead, try this:

"Your honor, I had just returned from Iraq and had been home four days when I was issued the citation by the (deputy/officer). I believed I was travelling the legal posted speed limit based on the last sign I saw. Obviously, I was mistaken! Thank you for taking this into consideration when you issue your verdict and the sentence sir"

This sounds better in my opinion.

Very good advice. Wear your uniform,be humble and talk to the prosecutor before it goes to court! Many will reduce or change the charge to something like not wearing a seatbelt. This way you only pay a fine and not have points put on your license and surcharges on your insurance. Good luck!

[Zulu 36]

Very good advice. Wear your uniform,be humble and talk to the prosecutor before it goes to court! Many will reduce or change the charge to something like not wearing a seatbelt. This way you only pay a fine and not have points put on your license and surcharges on your insurance. Good luck!

If the officer and/or prosecutor will talk to you, and they aren't inclined to cut you loose with a total dismissal, offer to plead on the nose to the cited offense, but have the sentence deferred for some period (offer three-months, but accept six-months, maybe a year). Also offer to pay "court costs" in the amount of the normal fine.

If they agree, you still pay the same amount as the fine would be (no escape there, and they still get the revenue), but you have to stay traffic ticket free for the deferral period. After the deferral period (if you stayed clean), the ticket is dismissed like you never got it. No insurance hit as the ticket should not go on your record unless you screw up during the deferral period.

Yeah, Alphas are a good idea and behave exactly like the Leprechaun said.

[BRUISER]

I think you're getting all worked up over nothing. As the recipient of many tickets, I have quite a bit of experience.

Traffic court is always packed. The main objective of the court system is to get you in and out as fast as possible. People who lie or make up a long drawn out bull**** story as to why they were speeding always annoy the judge

Wear what you want, plead guilty with an explanation. Be straight with the judge. Dont waste everyones time with some hyped up explanantion about you being deployed,not knowing the speed limit etc. and take your medicine.

They will find you guilty with a judgement of no points and cut the fine in half

BTW, there is no prosecuter,jury etc. Unless you plead innocent and want a jury trial,it will go exactly as I said. You dont get to make deals with the arresting officer. The arresting officer is not obligated to even be there. If you plead inncocent with a jury trial,then you will need a lawyer,and your case will be heard.

Its traffic court for christsakes

[Chumley]

I've head quite a few too....I wouldn't walk in there and admit TOO much. Following advice posted earlier, I'd ask to plead to a non-moving violation...that's the normal mark-down that you would hope for...pay $150 for parking on the sidewalk and have a nice day.

[Solly]

Jellyfish,
To start off, I'm a township police officer in south central PA. I've written my share of traffic citations. I also served to the Corps for four and a half years. What I am going to post is just my opinion.
As far as wearing the Alphas, I think its a good idea. I think it shows respect to the court and the judge. I've seen plenty of people show up for court wearing clothing that look like they just crawled out of the rack. It did not help. When you show up in Alphas, stand tall and admit any wrong doing on your part. This goes a long way. As said previously, long winded BS stories aren't going to cut it. More than likely, the judge as been sitting on the bench for more than a week. Trying to smoke something past him/her is only going to hurt you.
As far as talking to the prosecutor before the hearing, here it is the arresting officer that runs the State's case (no DA until it goes to County Court). But do try to talk to him/her before the hearing and see if you could work something out. There is usually a lesser charge that the charge can be amended to.
One other thing. As far as DUI charges, I have no idea how it works in other jurisdictions but in my little pond - if you get stop and are DUI, you get charged. I think most cops have little pity for the person that get caught DUI. We seen what DUI cause.

[Quinbo]

Jellyfish you need look not further than Lt. Col Oliver North. Rumor has it he had several sets prepared and would change during breaks in his trial to always appear perfectly squared away before the court.