History Question........

[NoRemorse]

Early 1900's- "Old Blue" ?

Or are you looking for the flag with a "snake" ?

Bestill my heart, are you answering the Sgt's question with a question?

I think that alone calls for some IT; as in you need some incentive to answer the Sgt's great trivia.

[SureShot12]

Originally Posted by SureShot12 Early 1900's- "Old Blue" ? Or are you looking for the flag with a "snake" ?

Bestill my heart, are you answering the Sgt's question with a question?

I think that alone calls for some IT; as in you need some incentive to answer the Sgt's great trivia.

OLD BLUE !!

I've got another good one-

What are the "Original Eight" and what was their job ?

[Phantom Blooper]

I started this thread over a year ago.....

Ground rules.........ANSWER THE QUESTIONS BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS!

ENOUGH SAID!

[Quinbo]

Hell yes Sam by all means keep coming back and answering questions. I learned something new from you today.

[Mariyta]

Scarlet and gold were named the Marine Corps colors by Marine Corps Order No. 4 on April 25, 1925, with the flag being adopted January 18, 1939.


The history of the flag is actually more detailed that I thought it would be.

[Chumley]

Early 1900's- "Old Blue" ?

Or are you looking for the flag with a "snake" ?

SureShot12 - Clarify your response, and don't miss the second part of the question....."Where is it and who did it belong to"?

I'm working on your original eight trivia now - good one!

[Phantom Blooper]

United States Marine Corps
HOW IT ALL BEGAN!

I suppose we should consider the man, who handed the first grenade to the first pilot who subsequently dropped it in anger, as our first Aviation Ordnanceman, however this act and the date it occurred is lost in history. In an effort to establish a date as the birthday for Aviation Ordnance it is necessary to back up and look for a moment at the history of Marine Aviation.
The idea of Marine Aviation dates, perhaps, from the year 1903, when a young Alfred Austin Cunningham first watched a manned balloon fly and talked its owner into giving him a ride. A year later Cunningham entered the U.S. Naval Academy, graduating in 1909 and chose to become a second Lieutenant in the Marine Corps. He was continually obsessed with flying and after stirring a congressional tempest, was ordered to the Navy's Aviation camp at Annapolis for flight training on 22 May 1912. There he became the Marine Corps first aviator and Naval aviator number 5. From that date until WW I, Marine aviation was small. Starting with only five officers and thirty enlisted men on the day the United States declared war, the Marines increased their air arm until the close of the war they had 282 officers and 2180 enlisted men.
It was during WW I that Marine Aviation first saw combat. In 1918 the Marine First Aviation Force, with one squadron deployed to the northern coast of France to bomb the German Submarine bases in Belgium. They deployed without aircraft which were to be furnished later. These planes were so long in coming that the restless Marines proposed to the British and the French that Marines fly with them and use their planes. The offer was accepted and the Marines flew with their allies for the rest of the war.
In the two decades that followed WW I Marine Aviation went into Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Nicaragua. It was during this era that Aviation Ordnance was finally identified as a separate skill. The document that did this was a Table of Organization (T/O). To understand just how a Table of Organization could establish a skill, it is necessary to trace backwards from the present system of Military Occupational Specialties.
Marine AO's are currently known as Aviation Ordnance with occupational field 65. This has only been true since 1949. From 1942 to 1949 all Marines were identified by their Specification Service Numbers (SSN's). Enlisted ordnancemen were (SSN 991's). Prior to 1942 and through the years Marine Aviation was emerging, the Marine Corps identified their enlisted men through their promotion certificates which were then called Branch Warrants.
Upon graduating from boot camp and until a man was promoted to Corporal he was a Marine with no identifiable skill. On promotion to Corporal there would appear on the Warrant the words "Corporal" (Aviation). The term "aviation" designated his branch. There was no further break down. The number of branches in the Marine Corps varied from time to time but generally included such specialties as Aviation, Communications, Engineers, Motor Transport, Ordnance (ground), Artillery and the Infantry (line).
To further identify the skill of a Marine it was necessary to look at the T/O and see what slot the man was filling. The First Aviation T/O's were issued about 1918 and showed only six kinds of personnel, Motor Shop, Erection Shop, Quartermaster, Transportation, Mess and Police. It wasn't until Table of Organization No. 37 was issued on 25 April 1922 that ordnance appeared on a T/O, and when it did, the term used was Gunnery personnel. This T/O authorized one Warrant Officer, one Sergeant, one Corporal and one PFC for a Division Aviation. They were assigned six airplanes.
The name Gunnery personnel stayed until Table of Organization No. 43-W was 11 September 1925 when the name was changed to Armament personnel. At this time the personnel allowance for a squadron was increased to 3 Marine Gunners, 3 Sergeants, 3 Corporals, and 3 PFC's. This remained in effect until 6 February 1935 when Table of Organization No. 23 changed the name to Ordnance. This authorized an Ordnance strength of one First Lieutenant, One Marine Gunner, one Master Technical Sergeant, one Sergeant, one Corporal and 3 PFC's/Privates. Since that day the title has stayed the same, only the method of identifying us has changed.
Taken from an article written by G. H. CONNER,Capt USMC

[Chumley]

Scarlet and gold were named the Marine Corps colors by Marine Corps Order No. 4 on April 25, 1925, with the flag being adopted January 18, 1939.


The history of the flag is actually more detailed that I thought it would be.

I think I'm gonna get some more PT tonight!! NICE!!
I'll see if NoRemorse posts a response first...

[SureShot12]

SureShot12 - Clarify your response, and don't miss the second part of the question....."Where is it and who did it belong to"?

4th Marine Regiment.

The only surviving flag is in San Diego. The rest were burnt.

Edit- I'm going off of memory here(I read the entire "Complete History of The Marine Corps", twice). I'm pretty sure that I am correct.

Didn't one Marine "sneak" the flag into his sea bag, and thats how there is still one around, today ?

[awbrown1462]

A flag similar to the 1914 flag was used by the United States Marine Corps 4th Regiment. This flag, deemed "Old Blue," contained the Marine Corps emblem in the center of the blue field. A scarlet ribbon above the emblems reads "Fourth Regiment," and a scarlet ribbon below the emblem reads "U.S. Marine Corps." As the regiment’s colors were changed to scarlet and gold, Marines were ordered to burn the old flag. One Marine was unable to do so and hid a flag in his sea bag. He died in the line of duty in China, but the flag survived for many years, eventually making its way to the Command Museum, Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego, California in 1991. There it was fully restored. It's the only known flag of its kind to have survived.

Very good SureShot12

[awbrown1462]

What model of rifle is on the Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal? and what is the nickname for the Medal?
right answer for one = 50 push ups
for both =25 push ups
wrong anwsers = 100 bends and FM's

[Mariyta]

The nickname of the medal is "The Good Cookie."

As for the rifle: "The rifle suspender is the Lee Navy rifle, a high velocity magazine fed bolt action rifle that used .236 ammunition."

[SureShot12]

A flag similar to the 1914 flag was used by the United States Marine Corps 4th Regiment. This flag, deemed "Old Blue," contained the Marine Corps emblem in the center of the blue field. A scarlet ribbon above the emblems reads "Fourth Regiment," and a scarlet ribbon below the emblem reads "U.S. Marine Corps." As the regiment’s colors were changed to scarlet and gold, Marines were ordered to burn the old flag. One Marine was unable to do so and hid a flag in his sea bag. He died in the line of duty in China, but the flag survived for many years, eventually making its way to the Command Museum, Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego, California in 1991. There it was fully restored. It's the only known flag of its kind to have survived.

Very good SureShot12

Err...I told you, Sgt, I read the complete History of the Marine Corps, TWICE..And thats a BIG BOOK !!

Lets get another question here..

No one answered my questions about the Original Eight...

[awbrown1462]

are you talking about the 8 Marines who marched to the shores of Tripoli

[Quinbo]

Sure Shot if you have read Jack Webbs books then surely you will know the name of the protective substance placed on brand new M-1's and M-14's for shipping and the two methods used for removing it.