Inspirational Story

[SuNmAN]

So...the problem is insurmountable, and we should just give up?

THAT's not gonna work.

And, as far as this line goes: "In the early parts of the invasion, we dropped bombs on civilian population centers just on the CHANCE that some Baath Party Official might be in the area."

Cite the facts you are basing this on. Where did you get the information, and what is the reliability of same?

Standard Intelligence questions.

No, we should not just give up

just sayin' killin an Al Qaeda leader is of no strategic value other than the feeling of retribution - "thats what you get biotch !!" lol


I have newspaper articles to back those claims up...BUT

#1 I'm tired as hell right now don't feel like digging online
#2 you'll likely dismiss those media sources as too leftist

[outlaw3179]

Unfu*kingbelivable.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Oh, come on now SuN. Even lefties occassionally tell the truth. Unlikely, but occassionally. Still, ya shouldn't make blanket statements like that without sourcing it. More "basic Intel 101" LOL.

I'm gonna make an Analyst outta you yet.

[SuNmAN]

Oh, come on now SuN. Even lefties occassionally tell the truth. Unlikely, but occassionally. Still, ya shouldn't make blanket statements like that without sourcing it. More "basic Intel 101" LOL.

I'm gonna make an Analyst outta you yet.

I just took a nap - here it is

Source #1: Militant Muslim Combat Methods, by H. John Poole

Source #2: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...mb-cover_x.htm

Source #3: http://www.boston.com/news/world/art...qi_resistance/

It is common knowledge that the US air force performed air strikes based on CIA intel reports that Baath Party Officials were in the area and often they not only missed the targetted personnel but also killed civilians

Source 3 especially illustrates my points...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

MM combat methods is a great book.


Source 3. Lets take a look at what ole Abdalla, who is a 'wanted man', BTW, says, shall we? This line is telling: "For 10 years, I couldn't get the people to fight Saddam's government," Abdalla said in Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad. "Now in a few months Bush has achieved what I couldn't in 10 years. All Muslims are grateful for Bush."

So....what should we take from this? "Could" ole Abdalla be a militant islamist, perhaps? Unhappy with Saddam...and unhappy with secular westernism?

This is a wonderful example of anti-american propaganda (I'm not discounting the article, however, I am stating a good reporter would look to motives of those being interviewed...a good cop would, and so does a good Intel Analyst....) None of those motives are presented, other than the usual grievances and allegations that can't be proven.

So much for source 3. Still didn't see the 'common knowledge' about air strikes killing civilians; 3 says they are being killed by ground troops in accidental shootings.

On to source 2. Here we have the crux of the matter:
"One anti-war group calculates that cluster weapons killed as many as 372 Iraqi civilians"

Now, I'll have to say that the article has been researched, it appears. However, all of the above (in USA today), no malice is indicated, and it would appear that rather than the USAF, it's US ground forces artillery that would be the culprit. There is no indication, either, that the strikes 'missed' targetted personnel, since the BDA's aren't provided.

Therefore, I'd say the argument presented, while having 'some' basis in fact, is also based off of only "one" source, and one slanted source.

Does this mean it's untrue? No. But, it would cause me to look at it with a 'hairy eyeball', based on years of experience.

[SuNmAN]

MM combat methods is a great book.


Source 3. Lets take a look at what ole Abdalla, who is a 'wanted man', BTW, says, shall we? This line is telling: "For 10 years, I couldn't get the people to fight Saddam's government," Abdalla said in Fallujah, 35 miles west of Baghdad. "Now in a few months Bush has achieved what I couldn't in 10 years. All Muslims are grateful for Bush."

So....what should we take from this? "Could" ole Abdalla be a militant islamist, perhaps? Unhappy with Saddam...and unhappy with secular westernism?

This is a wonderful example of anti-american propaganda (I'm not discounting the article, however, I am stating a good reporter would look to motives of those being interviewed...a good cop would, and so does a good Intel Analyst....) None of those motives are presented, other than the usual grievances and allegations that can't be proven.

So much for source 3. Still didn't see the 'common knowledge' about air strikes killing civilians; 3 says they are being killed by ground troops in accidental shootings.

On to source 2. Here we have the crux of the matter:
"One anti-war group calculates that cluster weapons killed as many as 372 Iraqi civilians"

Now, I'll have to say that the article has been researched, it appears. However, all of the above (in USA today), no malice is indicated, and it would appear that rather than the USAF, it's US ground forces artillery that would be the culprit. There is no indication, either, that the strikes 'missed' targetted personnel, since the BDA's aren't provided.

Therefore, I'd say the argument presented, while having 'some' basis in fact, is also based off of only "one" source, and one slanted source.

Does this mean it's untrue? No. But, it would cause me to look at it with a 'hairy eyeball', based on years of experience.

good arguments

to be honest I did do a pretty hasty google search to find those two articles

and I admit I can't find the original article I did do a speech on last year lol

I agree with just about everything you said above.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Consensus! LOL.

Research, old bean, matters. While professors may accept sloppy research, because quite frankly they do not have the time, nor the inclination most of the time to fact check, in the real world, and esp. at the pointy end of the stick, when lives depend on information, you have to make sure you have the ability to backup what you say/quote, with facts, and then support your position.

Just throwing stuff out there randomly usually gets you stood on the little yellow footprints in front of 'the man' in my line of work.