Marines: Hand to Hand combat

[chili77bowl]

I have a 1st degree black sash in kung-fu, so not like I really NEED to do MCMAP, but some of the things it teaches is somewhat useful...
I personally believe that they spend too much time on the ground fighting portion...Most instructors I know are BIG TIME into the Mixed Martial Arts...

I know that most street fights end on the ground, but in combat, which is what we train for, if I happen to end up on the ground, I'm sure the dude I'm grapplin' has a few buddies that wouldn't mind kickin' the sh*t outta my head...

besides, as my father was told when he learned hand to hand in Army boot camp back in the 70's....If you get close enough to use it, it's your own damn fault.

[SlingerDun]

Dear Chili,

I don't much like running anymore and don't carry a shooter, so if an attacker Kung Fu's me what can i do besides bum rush him and take it to the deck for some ground and pound?

Thanks,

--->Dave

[FistFu68]

USE THAT HOOF PIC-YOU GOT,FOR CLEANING TURF AND DUNG OUTTA THEM HOOF'S AND OPEN HIM UP FROM AZZ-HOLE TOO BELLY BUTTON!!!

[Zulu 36]

I have a 1st degree black sash in kung-fu, so not like I really NEED to do MCMAP, but some of the things it teaches is somewhat useful...
I personally believe that they spend too much time on the ground fighting portion...Most instructors I know are BIG TIME into the Mixed Martial Arts...

I know that most street fights end on the ground, but in combat, which is what we train for, if I happen to end up on the ground, I'm sure the dude I'm grapplin' has a few buddies that wouldn't mind kickin' the sh*t outta my head...

besides, as my father was told when he learned hand to hand in Army boot camp back in the 70's....If you get close enough to use it, it's your own damn fault.

Combat hand fighting isn't much different than street fighting. Fights almost always end up on the ground. 90% of the time gravity wins that part of the fight.

Hopefully you'll be fighting the only idiot around, or his buddies will be busy with other Marines. Other than that, kill him fast and either get outta Dodge, or go kill another one (also fast).

Remember, most Marines do not have a big background in any martial art. Teaching ground fighting is easier than fancy kicks or punches. If you're good enough to kick a field goal with the guy's head, go for it, but not everyone can do that. Since you're probably going to end up on the ground anyway, you might as well go to the ground on your terms.

I taught defensive tactics to cops and police recruits for years. If the situation went to blows, it was going to end on the ground intentionally. Either the dirtbag was arm-barred down, batoned, angle kicked, kneed, stunned, tasered, swarmed, or sprayed (or shot). Eventually that fight was on the ground for handcuffing.

[chili77bowl]

I understand that it WILL go to the ground, but the way I have seen most instructors teach it was with MMA in mind...like we're all out to be UFC fighters....I don't know...maybe I am wrong.
Regardless, as a Non-Lethal weapons instructor I hardly ever go without my OC spray...even in uniform it's not too far away.

[SlingerDun]

The spray i bought for the mountains apparently shoots about an eight foot cone of orange colored pepper extracts some 30 feet. It was 50 dollars plus shipping and i'm to cheap to practice so i've never tried it but apparently it will seriously foul a bear or cats olfactory senses and could temporarily take out a fire team hehehehe Has anyone tried it???

---> Dave

[Zulu 36]

The spray i bought for the mountains apparently shoots about an eight foot cone of orange colored pepper extracts some 30 feet. It was 50 dollars plus shipping and i'm to cheap to practice so i've never tried it but apparently it will seriously foul a bear or cats olfactory senses and could temporarily take out a fire team hehehehe Has anyone tried it???

---> Dave

That bear spray is usually about 10% OC. It doesn't mess up their sense of smell, but just like with people, it burns the eyes and other membranes. Very disturbing. As you know with animals, they will usually try to escape a painful experience. Of course, the important word is "usually." A determined momma bear with cubs may keep coming, 10% OC or not.

Police and the military are intentionally exposed to OC products during MCMAP or other defensive tactics courses in order to teach them how to fight through the effects. Admittedly, most OC concentrations used on humans are 5% or less. But an experienced and determined (or mentally ill) human may still be able to fight the effects of a 10% OC.

There have been many tests on the effect of OC on a K-9's olfactory capbabilities. A trained K-9 will still accurately track a target, or find dope/explosives despite OC exposure. They can still sort out the pepper smell from what they are tracking. K-9 teams are now also regularly trained with OC exposure as part of their training.

[LeonardLawrence]

Do Marines learn special fighting skills like seals or could someone please xplain the hand to hand combat training.

Special fighting skills? Why is that everyone thinks some mammal that can juggle a ball on his nose has some special skills???

What about verbally abusing your opponent.

Seriously if you are interested in checking out some video, you can go to You tube and type in Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. Use good judgement and you can filter out the junk. Good stuff.

[Keith Warron]

The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) is a combat system developed by the United States Marine Corps to combine existing and new hand-to-hand and close quarters combat (CQC) techniques with morale and team-building functions and instruction in what the Marine Corps calls the "Warrior Ethos".[1] The program, which began in 2001, trains Marines (and U.S. Navy personnel attached to Marine Units) in unarmed combat, edged weapons, weapons of opportunity, and rifle and bayonet techniques. It also stresses mental and character development, including the responsible use of force, leadership, and teamwork. The MCMAP has several nicknames, including "semper fu", MCSlap, and "new bushido". In speech, the acronym is often pronounced "mick-map."


The program uses an advancement system of colored belts similar to that of most martial arts. The different levels of belts are:

• Tan belt, the lowest color belt and conducted during entry level training, signifies the basic understanding of the mental, physical, and character disciplines. It is the minimum requirement of all Marines with a training time of 27.5 hours and has no prerequisites. Recruits receive these belts after completion of a practical application test on all of the basic techniques of the Tan Belt.
• Gray belt is the second belt attained after 46 hours of training. It signifies an intermediate understanding of the basic disciplines. The prerequisites for this belt are as follows: The Marine must complete Fundamentals of Marine Corps Leadership MCI, and most instructors will require a report be completed on The Marine Raiders.
• Green belt is the third belt, requiring 54.9 hours of training. This belt signifies understanding of the intermediate fundamentals of the different disciplines. This is the first belt level in which one can be a MAI (Martial Arts Instructor) and can teach tan through green techniques with the power to award the appropriate belt. The prerequisites for this belt include a recommendation from reporting senior, and to be an instructor requires the Marine to be a Lance Corporal or higher.
• Brown Belt is the fourth belt level requiring 64.9 hours of training. It introduces Marines to the advanced fundamentals of each discipline. In addition, as with green belts, they may be certified as MAIs and teach tan through green techniques. Prerequisites for this belt include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Corporal or higher (able to waiver to LCpl), and appropriate PMEs completed for rank (Such as Corporal's Course).
• Black belt 1st degree is the highest belt color and requires 71.5 hours of supervised training. It signifies knowledge of the advanced fundamentals of the different disciplines. A 1st degree black belt may teach fundamentals from tan to brown belt, and a MAI may award the appropriate belt. In addition, they can also be a MAIT (Martial arts Instructor Trainer) which authorizes them to teach tan through black belt 1st degree and award the appropriate belt. Prerequisites include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Sergeant or above, and appropriate level of PME completed (Such as Sergeant's Course.)

There are an additional 5 degrees of black belt, with several of the same common prerequisites, including recommendation of reporting senior, appropriate level of PME completed, must be a current MAIT. Black belt 2nd degree to 6th degree signify that the holder is an authority in the Marine Corps Martial arts Program. In addition to the above prerequisite, each belt also has its own rank requirements.

• Black belt 2nd degree requires the rank of Sgt or above.
• Black belt 3rd degree requires the rank of SSgt or above.
• Black belt 4th degree requires the rank of GySgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
• Black belt 5th degree requires the rank of MSgt/1stSgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
• Black belt 6th degree requires the rank of MGySgt/SgtMaj for enlisted and LtCol or higher for officers.

The techniques used by MCMAP vary in degrees of lethality, allowing the user to select the most appropriate (usually the least) amount of force. For example, a Marine facing a nonviolent but noncompliant subject can use an unarmed restraint to force compliance with minimal damage and pain. A more aggressive subject could be met with a choke, hold, or a strike. Lethal force can be used on a subject as a last resort. The majority of techniques can be defensive or offensive in use, with or without a weapon; allowing Marines flexibility in combat and operations other than war (such as civil control or humanitarian missions, as well as self-defense). An instructor can augment the circumstances of training to better fit the unit's mission, such as military police practicing after being exposed to pepper spray.

The tan belt syllabus focuses on the development of the basics of armed and unarmed combat. Students start with the Basic Warrior Stance and break-falls are taught for safety, then move to:

• basic punches, uppercuts, and hooks
• basic upper-body strikes, including the eye gouge, hammer fists, and elbow strikes
• basic lower-body strikes, including kicks, knee strikes, and stomps
• bayonet techniques
• basic chokes and throws
• counters to strikes, chokes, and holds
• basic unarmed restraints and armed manipulations
• basic knife techniques
• basic weapons of opportunity

Students must prove proficiency with 80% of 50 techniques to pass and earn their belt. The tan belt syllabus is part of The Basic School and recruit training curriculum.

The gray belt syllabus expands on the basic techniques with:

• intermediate bayonet techniques
• intermediate upper-body strikes including knife-hands (karate chops) and elbow strikes
• intermediate lower-body strikes including kicks, knee strikes, and stomps
• intermediate chokes and throws
• counters to strikes, chokes, and holds
• intermediate unarmed restraints and armed manipulations
• intermediate knife techniques
• basic ground fighting
• basic nonlethal baton techniques
• intermediate weapons of opportunity

The Green belt technique shifts focus from defensive to offensive techniques with:

• intermediate bayonet techniques
• muscle gouging
• intermediate chokes and throws
• counters to strikes
• intermediate unarmed manipulation
• intermediate ground fighting
• intermediate nonlethal baton techniques
• advanced weapons of opportunity

Brown belt:

• advanced bayonet techniques
• advanced ground fighting and chokes
• advanced throws
• unarmed vs. hand held weapons
• firearm retention
• firearm disarmament
• advanced knife techniques
• advanced nonlethal baton techniques

1st Degree Black:

• advanced bayonet techniques
• advanced chokes, holds, and throws
• advanced ground fighting
• basic counter firearm techniques
• advanced upper-body strikes, including strikes and smashes
• advanced knife techniques
• pressure points
• improvised weapons

2nd Degree black:

• rifle vs. rifle
• short weapon vs. rifle
• unarmed vs. rifle

[thewookie]

The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) is a combat system developed by the United States Marine Corps to combine existing and new hand-to-hand and close quarters combat (CQC) techniques with morale and team-building functions and instruction in what the Marine Corps calls the "Warrior Ethos".[1] The program, which began in 2001, trains Marines (and U.S. Navy personnel attached to Marine Units) in unarmed combat, edged weapons, weapons of opportunity, and rifle and bayonet techniques. It also stresses mental and character development, including the responsible use of force, leadership, and teamwork. The MCMAP has several nicknames, including "semper fu", MCSlap, and "new bushido". In speech, the acronym is often pronounced "mick-map."


The program uses an advancement system of colored belts similar to that of most martial arts. The different levels of belts are:

• Tan belt, the lowest color belt and conducted during entry level training, signifies the basic understanding of the mental, physical, and character disciplines. It is the minimum requirement of all Marines with a training time of 27.5 hours and has no prerequisites. Recruits receive these belts after completion of a practical application test on all of the basic techniques of the Tan Belt.
• Gray belt is the second belt attained after 46 hours of training. It signifies an intermediate understanding of the basic disciplines. The prerequisites for this belt are as follows: The Marine must complete Fundamentals of Marine Corps Leadership MCI, and most instructors will require a report be completed on The Marine Raiders.
• Green belt is the third belt, requiring 54.9 hours of training. This belt signifies understanding of the intermediate fundamentals of the different disciplines. This is the first belt level in which one can be a MAI (Martial Arts Instructor) and can teach tan through green techniques with the power to award the appropriate belt. The prerequisites for this belt include a recommendation from reporting senior, and to be an instructor requires the Marine to be a Lance Corporal or higher.
• Brown Belt is the fourth belt level requiring 64.9 hours of training. It introduces Marines to the advanced fundamentals of each discipline. In addition, as with green belts, they may be certified as MAIs and teach tan through green techniques. Prerequisites for this belt include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Corporal or higher (able to waiver to LCpl), and appropriate PMEs completed for rank (Such as Corporal's Course).
• Black belt 1st degree is the highest belt color and requires 71.5 hours of supervised training. It signifies knowledge of the advanced fundamentals of the different disciplines. A 1st degree black belt may teach fundamentals from tan to brown belt, and a MAI may award the appropriate belt. In addition, they can also be a MAIT (Martial arts Instructor Trainer) which authorizes them to teach tan through black belt 1st degree and award the appropriate belt. Prerequisites include recommendation of reporting senior, rank of Sergeant or above, and appropriate level of PME completed (Such as Sergeant's Course.)

There are an additional 5 degrees of black belt, with several of the same common prerequisites, including recommendation of reporting senior, appropriate level of PME completed, must be a current MAIT. Black belt 2nd degree to 6th degree signify that the holder is an authority in the Marine Corps Martial arts Program. In addition to the above prerequisite, each belt also has its own rank requirements.

• Black belt 2nd degree requires the rank of Sgt or above.
• Black belt 3rd degree requires the rank of SSgt or above.
• Black belt 4th degree requires the rank of GySgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
• Black belt 5th degree requires the rank of MSgt/1stSgt for enlisted and Major or higher for officers.
• Black belt 6th degree requires the rank of MGySgt/SgtMaj for enlisted and LtCol or higher for officers.

The techniques used by MCMAP vary in degrees of lethality, allowing the user to select the most appropriate (usually the least) amount of force. For example, a Marine facing a nonviolent but noncompliant subject can use an unarmed restraint to force compliance with minimal damage and pain. A more aggressive subject could be met with a choke, hold, or a strike. Lethal force can be used on a subject as a last resort. The majority of techniques can be defensive or offensive in use, with or without a weapon; allowing Marines flexibility in combat and operations other than war (such as civil control or humanitarian missions, as well as self-defense). An instructor can augment the circumstances of training to better fit the unit's mission, such as military police practicing after being exposed to pepper spray.

The tan belt syllabus focuses on the development of the basics of armed and unarmed combat. Students start with the Basic Warrior Stance and break-falls are taught for safety, then move to:

• basic punches, uppercuts, and hooks
• basic upper-body strikes, including the eye gouge, hammer fists, and elbow strikes
• basic lower-body strikes, including kicks, knee strikes, and stomps
• bayonet techniques
• basic chokes and throws
• counters to strikes, chokes, and holds
• basic unarmed restraints and armed manipulations
• basic knife techniques
• basic weapons of opportunity

Students must prove proficiency with 80% of 50 techniques to pass and earn their belt. The tan belt syllabus is part of The Basic School and recruit training curriculum.

The gray belt syllabus expands on the basic techniques with:

• intermediate bayonet techniques
• intermediate upper-body strikes including knife-hands (karate chops) and elbow strikes
• intermediate lower-body strikes including kicks, knee strikes, and stomps
• intermediate chokes and throws
• counters to strikes, chokes, and holds
• intermediate unarmed restraints and armed manipulations
• intermediate knife techniques
• basic ground fighting
• basic nonlethal baton techniques
• intermediate weapons of opportunity

The Green belt technique shifts focus from defensive to offensive techniques with:

• intermediate bayonet techniques
• muscle gouging
• intermediate chokes and throws
• counters to strikes
• intermediate unarmed manipulation
• intermediate ground fighting
• intermediate nonlethal baton techniques
• advanced weapons of opportunity

Brown belt:

• advanced bayonet techniques
• advanced ground fighting and chokes
• advanced throws
• unarmed vs. hand held weapons
• firearm retention
• firearm disarmament
• advanced knife techniques
• advanced nonlethal baton techniques

1st Degree Black:

• advanced bayonet techniques
• advanced chokes, holds, and throws
• advanced ground fighting
• basic counter firearm techniques
• advanced upper-body strikes, including strikes and smashes
• advanced knife techniques
• pressure points
• improvised weapons

2nd Degree black:

• rifle vs. rifle
• short weapon vs. rifle
• unarmed vs. rifle

Pardon me, Sir, but can you fix your profile? You have listed yourself as an E-1, which I am sure is a mistake, or you are some bozo

Nice job of using cut and paste though...

A light bird in twelve years....

Carry on

[Keith Warron]

My fault there, Sergeant. I'm not too fantastic with computers. My Lieutenant told me about this site, so I just decided to take a look. I'm still getting used to using the settings and wot not, so bear with me mate.

Yes, thanks. It's amazing how much information on the Marine Corps (or any military organization) is on Wikipeidia. Sometimes I wonder who writes it?

[thewookie]

My fault there, Sergeant. I'm not too fantastic with computers. My Lieutenant told me about this site, so I just decided to take a look. I'm still getting used to using the settings and wot not, so bear with me mate.

Yes, thanks. It's amazing how much information on the Marine Corps (or any military organization) is on Wikipeidia. Sometimes I wonder who writes it?

Thank you, Sir. Welcome aboard.

And thank you for your service!

Don't mean to hijack the thread but being in the 02 field and being in DC, do you know a Capt. Pidgeon?

[SlingerDun]

My Lieutenant told me about this site

"Your Lieutenant" Where do you get them, and do they work?

[Keith Warron]

I don't want to get of topic too much, but:
I'm basically a supervising weapons and tactics instructor / intelligence officer. However, my lieutenants are just subordinates who probably do the actual instructing, whilst I just oversee their duties and complete paperwork to ensure the smooth running of the day. I occasionally might correct their methods of working, and etc... etc.
My lieutenants come from the OCS, and based on their qualifications, preferences with the recruitment agency and wot not, they are posted to various battalions. These lieutenants are mostly people who specialize in the intelligence field.

[SlingerDun]

oh ok so your Lieutenants probably do the actual instructing while you oversee them probably instructing, cool