Every War, Military are charged with crimes?

[ChristianMedia]

I'm one thing if nothing else, consistent.

[marinegreen]

WOW Christianmedia, you are one real tough soma***** arent you or at least you make your words sound like you are. I guaran-goll-damn tee you you'll never keep up with this wussie as you call those of us who say time to bring em home,we dont belong in fuqing someone else's civil war. You dont impress me one bit with the tough guy talk, in fact your showing some of us what kinda idiot you are but hey good luck and have fun posting as some of your post are hysterical. SF

[redneck13]

Marine Green? Wow, I couldn't have said it better, thank you, Great Job, you got more guts than I do to say what I wanted to say.,SF.

[junker316]

I have just been dianosed with PTSD after 3 tours in Iraq. Yet every time I think about what I was in and how hard it was for me to watch fellow Marines and Soldiers die in front of my eyes I get this feeling that...well it's hard to explain. But when I hear all this Sh&t from people who haven't been there and haven't seen sh&t talking about sh&t they know nothing about then I say F--- Them.

I keep being told that I will have to watch my temper and not do anything that will keep me in contact with people who **** me off for the rest of my life. I wonder how that will happen when there are so many of them out there waiting their chance to confront me with issues that they never experienced. I worst fear was to be dianosed with PTSD because I was always told that if I was then I was weak or crazy or even delusional. Well I am here to say that I had this ever since Desert Storm and yet ever time I went over there to do my duty it got worse. So how can these A$$holes say that these Marines and Soldiers aren't suffering and that they are killing innocents? Maybe if these idiots went over and did what the military is doing and their lives were on the line every day for months on end then they would see the light. There are innocents there and the enemy are using them as shields and such but there are also those who back the enemy and are posing as innocents. It is very hard to tell the difference and when I was there I didn't take any chances that endangered those under me. If they moved when they were told to stay still them they got what they deserved. if they got in my face then they got what they deserved. At that point they were no longer innocent but a distraction of my mission. And my mission was simple...to get rid of the enemy, whether dead or captured, and to free the people of the place I was at of the potential threat of retaliation. Collateral Damage was always there but kept to a minimum. An Innocent was never killed on purpose unless it was from the enemy and blamed on the US Forces.

The only thing other than surviving on the minds of every person there is to return home in one piece if possible. But when you are suffering from PTSD while there your mind gets even more screwed up and sometimes you don't want to return home...you'd rather die. You don't want to put your family and friends through the symtoms of PTSD and you don't understand why you feel the way you do. So if you die then you don't have to worry about either. I was that far along before I got sent to find help for it. I wanted to return to Iraq for a forth time just so I wouldn't return home to face the suffering of my family because of me. I was willing to go to any battle field whether Afgahnistan or Iraq. Not to kill unless necessary but to be killed.

So ChritianMedia when you want to open your mouth about having some-one ***** slapped like a doll or some-one being queer as a 4 dollar bill maybe you would like to go over there and meet the Iraq enemy and watch your people get killed for a while. Maybe ypou would enjoy the feeling of coming home when the ones you were close with isn't there beside you. I fought for your right to open your suck hole and I can deal with that. But when you speech about things that you haven't been through and make yourself sound so tough then I think it's about time you join the military and go over and put your money where your mouth is.

[marinegreen]

He's run that gap underneath his nose enough junker316 and made enough childish insults that he has been put on notice. Granted everybody is righteous in there own minds but some carry it alil to far and think that we all should think exactly like them. He about had me totlly drawn into his lil back and forth game but I'm pulling back on the reins cuz I wont be put on notice because some chump completely pi**ed me off. Stay strong junker316,post depression is a bit** SF Marine, you served well

[CAS3]

1. How can "CHRISTIAN" be so one-sided and be a veteran advocate?(check his profile)

2. How can he "want" our troops in harms way?(as seen by outlandish "gung-ho" comments)

3. How can you NOT want an end to this war and have every servicemember home safely? (provide more air-drop logistics, forward deployed..)

4. Who in their "right" mind actually uses myspace.com? Unless of course you are a teenage girl or a pediphile. (see above)


I am in complete suport of the Commander in Chief because I am, in my heart, a Marine and know I have to be supportive. ( I AM NOT A LIBERAL)
However, I do not like the idea of these men and women loosing lives, appendages and their minds. I have seen the results from Vietnam vets and have counseled more than my fair share. I do not wish those afflictions on anyone. I say, "Get the friggin job done and come home quickly"!

[outlaw3179]

Wow...I really like how if someone doesnt agree with what everyone else is saying theyre looked down upon and theyre made to feel like they shoulnt be allowed to say what they want or fee. Christian is a little rough around the edges , but then again ..what Marine isnt? He has the same right to say what he feels because thats how he feels. He doesnt speak for every veteran , the same as neither of any of you. If you dont like what hes saying , fine, dont like it. You dont have to...thats the cool thing about this cool thing called democracy.
I know many of my friends who have come back not the same after going over to Iraq either once or numerous times. It sucks talking to someone and knowing that theyve changed and nothing will ever be the same for them. But those same friends that I have will go back again if asked to. The same reason I will go probably go back in about a year or so. The reason is this....
Marines are protectors of America and when they are asked to place themselves in harms way, they will constantly do it , because fof the love for their families , their friends, and a sense of duty and commitment.
Of course no one wants to leave their families and go die in some P.O.S city in some fuked up foreign country. But Marines will go . because thats what we do....ever since day one of boot camp were told . We are here to fight . Were here to find the bad guys and kill them. Ask most of the Marines that are over there. Of course they want to be home but at the same time , theyre doing what theyve always trained to do.
Sure we could come home and leave the job unfinished . Sure we could just pretend that the insurgency hasnt used Iraq as a training ground to try out tactics, practice their bomb making skills , and refine their terrorist tactics and sure we could just cross our fingers and hope that the world situation gets better, and everyon just likes us.
Or we could face reality and accept the fact that we are in a war. That we will be in a war for a long time. Maybe someday soon we will leave Iraq, but the fighting will not stop. We will just have to move to another soil. An insurgency accomplishes its mission by breaking the resolve of the people. Unity and focus will help us accomplish the mission.
But hey we could just wait around for a while hope things get better then when the next 9/11 happens everyone then will say "how did this happen" and then well try to find some people to blame. Id go with option one ...to Locate , close with , and destroy.
Oh and Im not just saying this becuz I saw a cool programm on CNN or Fox. Im a grunt who walked down the same city streets on the same combat patrols and was shot at and shot back, and Im going back again... So yeah I can say whatever the hell I want to also.

[lovdog]

Your "on the money" Outlaw - everyone should have the right to say what is on his mind - thats why I love this site!! The problem with this post is that Wind hit on a "tender nerve" with all of us! Because of Iraq - most of us have our own reasons why we should be there, shouldn't be there, how to handle a bad situation now that we are there, and most of all - how do we get the hell out with keeping our honor in tact along the way? No one is questioning a Marines bravery, duty to ones country, or defense of our nation - this we will always have because it was bred into all of us. There are those that will go back into harms way again and again - no matter what the odds, because of his heartfelt obligation to do whatever is necessary to win the battle.
Those of us that went thru the Vietnam saga have seen the similarities of this war carry over onto your war in Iraq. Different place, different time - but the rules remain the same - "only the US Military has them"!! We try to abide by rules and regulations as much as we can but in war, like I've always said -you become your environment!! If your in the front lines, day after day, taking the heat or getting constantly shelled - you have a tendancy to get ***ed off rather easily. After months of this you start to develop the "screw the Geneva Convention"!! Whoever in Switzerland ever gave a flying f*ck about a US Marine anyway!! Besides, why do the insurgents or the (Viet Cong) get to fight any way they want and we have to walk on eggshells?? Then it finally becomes a kill or be killed situation - its survival, and usually the one that is the most violent wins the day!! I think this point was taken in WWII when we started bombing the German civilian population and dropping a couple of nukes in Japan. This seemed the only way to get the bad guys to finally throw up their hands & say "ok, I've had enough"!! As long as we have to fight the insurgent military - they can keep going as long as we can - its almost like a box of kleenex tissues - you kill one and another pops up in its place! Thats why our war and your war are the same. We were willing to fight - and to go back again time after time just like you guys. Its just that after 10 years or so - how many more will die and for what purpose? That was our dilemma! Now this war has the same problems. And, how do you diffuse this conflict - because it could continue long past 10 years, surpassing Vietnam in longevity!
I thought - or had hoped that Iraq was to become our ally thru this engagement? Am I missing something here? Do we just withdraw our troops and thats it after our occupation? At the cost of so many lives and misery and we are supposed to just walk away? Will this be another Vietnam - we just leave and let the country go back to its original state? Or, how many more insurgents do we have to kill before our vengence for 9/11 is finally justified? 10 maybe 20 thousand more should do the trick? Stay until the good Iraqi's take over - sure - thats gonna happen soon!! Or do we just stay intil the last insurgent falls - or Halliburton runs out of power plants to rebuild? Or, when the total bill reaches 1 trillion dollars - thats when we leave? That sounds like a good round number.
Lets not forget, the longer we are in country with our military - the more the Marines will be exposed to the killing of the innocents along the way and since the media is hot on our trail now - I'm sure that Congressional inquiries will play follow the leader too. Politicians send Marines into a war and are the first to turn against us when a few things start to sour - and God forbid - they take any responsibility for their actions for sending us in the first place!!!
I guess if I was in the Iraq war - I would be hesitant about taking along a correspondent. And if they were present - I'd just tell everyone to be on their best behavior. If they weren't along - then the gloves come off!! Take care of yourself and your men because your the only ones that you can truly count on!! Just keep opening up that can of "Whoop Ass" til its over I guess - thats what Marines do best as I recall!! SF

[Noci]

It's so eay to judge from your couch in good ole USA that those boys are fighting for!

[redneck13]

Outlaw? I know how you feel, I can feel it right now, as you so "ADMIREDLY" Put it how it is living with PTSD. And hell no Christian, you "Wimp", shut the F*** up, until you been in Outlaw's shoes, Lovdog's, Mine, and countless other's, take that hole below your nose, and keep it the F***d shut, you're an "A***H***, and no Outlaw, he don't have the right to say what he's saying when Marines like you and how many more, have this crap as, you, I, and as Cas Said, and are coming home in body bags. I don't care if he is a fellow Marine. He's still an idiot. Hell no, I'm not for the war, but, damn, double damn, I support wholeheartedly the Marines, Women/Men, who have to go and fight it. I say to you Outlaw.....just shut him off, you got the ability to do so, on this site, "IGNORE", and let him rattle his insanity however he wants, AS HIS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS TO ME, UNJUSTLY HONORED ON THIS SITE....BUT, NOT TO OFFEND MARINE'S WHO ARE DIEING, GETTING WOUNDED. Maybe I'm talking out both sides of my mouth here, but one way is correct, "HIS WAY IS PLAIN IGNORANT!!" I "RESPECT YOU, I'M PROUD OF YOU", as you said, "WE MARINE'S ARE MADE TO FIGHT". I just hate to see you go back, go thru more hell.....!! But I "SALUTE YOU" for your bravery, honesty, integrity, courage. NOBODY BUT A REAL TRUE HARD CORE MARINE IS WILLING TO DO THIS!! IN my "WAR" I was on my way back, and I knew I would die. But got held over with another unit on the Rock. My buddie's, some, got out of OZ early, and came to see me on the Rock, and I was so glad to see they made it. No, your Bud's, aren't the same. I enlisted with a high school good friend. He went to OZ before I did, got hit twice. I heard all sorts of stories after he got out, I stayed in, of his behavorial things. It wasn't good. Now? I seen him recently, he's an "artist", sober, doing very well. I tell you this because I want you to know how "YOU CAN BEAT IT ALL." What makes me so angry, is the fact that you have PTSD, and "THEY'RE SENDING YOU BACK?" WHAT A CROCK. Anyhow with Numbnuts, if you keep letting him get into you? He wins, you lose. No, you don't have to stay away from people.....In Time my Dear Brother Marine, and with the help of our Maker, you can make it. It's tough, it's hard to talk about things, but doing just that, here, or a therapist, or hell, write me an e-mail, let 'r rip, I will understand.....Because I'm doing the same thing. Will it go away? NO. It will get better. I too toward's the end of my tour in OZ, (nam) wanted to die, because I knew something was wrong with me. But, it wasn't meant to be. You came home, you did one hell of a "DAMN GOOD JOB MARINE." I'm proud to at least know you to some degree on this site. If there's anything I can possibly do for you? I mean it, don't give up, stay the course, fight hard, don't hold nuttin' in, let 'r rip, and the more, the better. It'll hurt like hell, but, it's healing. I have tears in my eyes right now as I'm writing this, because, when you wrote what you did.....I go back. But it's okay. And it'll be okay with you, as long as you continue to fight and win, just like you did to get back home...God Bless you Marine. I'm here, you can e-mail me, call me, and I know "OTHER MARINE'S" on this site are here for you. Never forget this. And your family will be behind you once they understand more about PTSD. I feel so sorry this happened to you. Hang tough and we're here for you. God Bless you and your's, and one big Semper-Fi to you, from one who knows. Win.

[outlaw3179]

I dont think i have ptsd lol....(my wife does lol ) ..but what Im trying to get across is that everyone can say what they want to as long as its in a respectufl manner. Just becuz I may think that someone who disagrees with me is wrong as 2 boys f*king ...doesnt necessarily mean Im correct.
Nobodys sending me back. To be honest I havent 100% decided. Ive got 2 boys who I need to think about , but I want to got back . I feel the need to go back. Thats all. Why do I get to stay here when there are Marines like Junker who have had to go back 3 times. Thats all Im saying. I have the utmost respect for most Marines and especially any Marine who served in Vietnam. You Marines served and fought when being patriotic wasnt the cool thing to do. All I know is that for me ,its my own personal decision that I have to make and I feel that going back is the right thing to do.

[redneck13]

I am as I said, very Proud to know you, and I respect your thoughts and wishes. Take it from us "OLD BIRDS", if you don't have to go back, think of what you have now, and what you might never see again. I know that "URGE" Outlaw real well. I wanted also to go back, and was, but I was so glad when I didn't have to go back because I had a great wife, and a beautiful lil' daughter, with my Son on the way. I beg of you to Please let this urge go. I know it is hard for you as it was for us OZ vet's to come home, while other's, one's we knew had to stay, some didn't make it. Just trying to be a good friend and Brother Marine. God Bless, and SF.

I dont think i have ptsd lol....(my wife does lol ) ..but what Im trying to get across is that everyone can say what they want to as long as its in a respectufl manner. Just becuz I may think that someone who disagrees with me is wrong as 2 boys f*king ...doesnt necessarily mean Im correct.
Nobodys sending me back. To be honest I havent 100% decided. Ive got 2 boys who I need to think about , but I want to got back . I feel the need to go back. Thats all. Why do I get to stay here when there are Marines like Junker who have had to go back 3 times. Thats all Im saying. I have the utmost respect for most Marines and especially any Marine who served in Vietnam. You Marines served and fought when being patriotic wasnt the cool thing to do. All I know is that for me ,its my own personal decision that I have to make and I feel that going back is the right thing to do.

[lovdog]

I'm a little confused, but I guess Noci's post was meant for me.
I got to thinking about what I said and maybe I did come across like an armchair quarterback by my remarks. And, I guess to a certain extent, if you haven't been to Iraq, maybe a guy like me doesn't have the right to voice an opinion on something that I just don't know much about what is actually going on. I listen to the news and try to get a handle on whats happening also by reading posts by those that have been there and their viewpoints on the war. But, I haven't worn the boots of an Iraq Veteran either, thats true. Like all of us fathers who have sons or daughters in the Military - we do accept that they will have to go in harms way because as Outlaw has said - "thats what they do"! My son has been to Korea and Afghanistan - and maybe Iraq in September. Do I want him to go - hell no! But that is the father in me talking - because the lives of our children are very precious to us. But, as I did, he will do his duty also - because thats what "he" does! So, this gives me the right to add my 2 cents at this site on this issue.
Wind - sorry for getting off the topic.
Outlaw - I know how you feel about going back, but as Wind has already said, think about this long and hard - especially being married with kids. We single guys always made it a point to try to keep the married guys out of harms way if at all possible. If we were zapped then it was just us (1 person) - a married guy like yourself has alot more dependant upon his staying alive. I guess its like the unwritten Marine code of honor.
If the Marines still took dinosaurs like me & Wind - we'd watch your back for you! LOL!! Wind has told me that I have PTSD too - I just tell him that I'm just F*cked Up, thats all!! Whatever you decide, I wish you well. SF

[tophor]

The Marines are getting a bad rap over this whole situation. For reasons stated by fellow Marines in this post. When you are in a fire fight you don't take time to see who is firing at you, like every Marine is trained to do, react to defend yourself and your fellow Marines then figure it out after the chaos is over. If you hesitate, you die. Just like has happened 1000's of times already in this war. The politicions sent our military over there, just like Desert Storm, started to let us do our job and then stopped us before the job was done. Now they(Washington) wants to finish up what was started in 1991, but they don't want to let the commanders on site make the decisions about combat, but rather the mindless morons in D.C. sitting behind a desk and not the battlefield where the decisions need to be made. Our fellow Marines are made to be cold blooded, mindless murders, rather than warriors of protection of which they really are. We have 17-25 year old "kids" as they are looked upon as, making life decisions everyday in the toughest situations that the average person will never see or understand in their life time, and then persicuted for trying to defend themselves and fellow Marines. I think this situation should be done and over with. Leave the Marines alone and let them do the job they were asked to do by their country.

[spike7451]

In the UK,we have had a spate of Servicemen being charged by the MoD (Ministry of Defence) for various 'crimes' while in Iraq.In the latest,two soldiers of the Irish Guards are leaving the Army in disgust.They had been charged with manslaughter for forcing a Iraqi into a canal.The iraqi was put into the canal on orders from highter up because he was with a band of looters.
It beggars belief that a serviceman or woman should now,as well as being in the most dangerous place in the world,have to consider the possibility of criminal charges for doing his job.