Did Israel deliberately allow 241 American Marines to die?

[radio relay]

All you folks who hate Israel, try living in the Middle East for awhile.

Israel ain't perfect, but they sure are light years ahead of any other country in that area when it comes to being a friend of the US.

Go ahead and demonize our only real ally there. That's sure doing a lot of good for our troops in the region!!

Obviously, you do have a "different" idea it. Too bad you're wrong!!! Been listening to the leftwing press too much?

[Joseph P Carey]

Oh! Radio! Do you really think the USS Liberty attack did not happen? Do you really think it is all a mistaken Identity situation as Israel has claimed all of these years? Do you really think it is a Left Wing plot to discredit the State of Israel?

If you do do? You are nothing more than an ideological pawn being used by Israel against your own country! Shame on you!

The only reason the attack on the USS Liberty occurred was to cover-up the sneak attack on the Arab neighbors of Israel in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon! The Israeli Government claimed to have been attacked in the 1967 War, yet they caught Offfensive Military Installations unaware with the suddeness of a supposed response to the claimed attack! No one can launch Offensive Operations with Division after Division as a Counter Attack within minutes of a prevocation! Israel takes the world as fools, and you also!

Let me guess Radio! You have an ulterior motive in the case of Israel! You have chosen blind ignorance over obvious fact! You have let yourself be a sheep to the propaganda of another Country's doctrine of lies!

Tell me that the Israelis did not start off the State of Israel as a Terrorist War, after Jew and Arab had lived in the area in relative peace for 30 years up to the end of WWII!
Tell me that Terrorists were not elected to the Highest Office in the State of Israel!
Tell me that Israel did not initiate the 1967 War!
Tell me Israel did not break agreements to not put settlements into the West Bank and Gaza!
Tell me Israel did not break every agreement they have ever signed!
Tell me Israel did not have information that would have saved our Marines in Lebanon, and did not share it with us!
Tell me Israel did not viciously attack and MURDER US Sailors and US Marines on the USS Liberty!
And, Tell me that Israeli Agents have not been caught spying on the USA, a la Pollard and others!

Maybe, the only one here 'brain washed' with a particular ideology is you, Radio?

[radio relay]

Just didn't realize it was about to fall out

Funny how you can list every so-called transgression by Israel, but don't seem to give a damn about the dirty deeds of Arab Islamic states.

Guess you have your eyes and ears wide open and on the lookout for any transgression that Israel might make, but could care less about the daily attrocities of muslims.

There are no Jewish "terrorists" in Israel, but sure are a bunch of Islamic ones. They blow up babies on buses all the time. There were "Freedom Fighters" that eventually became leaders in Israel.

No, Israel did not start the '67 war. It was Syria, and Egypt.

Israel has not broken every agreement they ever signed. Wonder why the Sinai is now back in Egypt's hands? Did they sign an agreement to keep it?

How do you know that Israel didn't share information with the U.S.? And, how do you know this socalled inside information that Israel had would have saved anyone? And, how you even know what the Israelis had? Believe every leftwing, anti-Israel/anti-American puff piece you read?

Don't blame Israel for the great debacle in Beirut!!!

First and formost blame the stinking islamic terorists who did it!

Next on the list to get blame would be Ronald Reagan, the CIA, and PX Kelly for not understanding the threat, and not committing enough troops, and then not supporting those they eventually put there.

If Israel has any blame at all (which it doesn't), it is way down at the bottom of the list!!

Yeah, they've spied on us, and the attack on our own spy ship was inexcusable. I'm not going to defend it. However those black marks on the relationship of the United States with Israel, do not even come close to wiping out the help we have gotten from them in fighting our common enemy... Islamofascist terrorism!

Need some soap for your brain? Maybe something to tighten up that screw?

[yellowwing]

I can't remember the particular Islamic Holy Place in that region. But the latest spark that initiated this latest years of "difficulties" was ignited by then dignitary Ariel Sharon's visit to a Islamic Holy place.

The anticipated over reaction of Muslims was jihad. Before then everything was peace and prosperity.

Sharon then used the Jihad, which he started, as an election campaign moniker that got him elected.

Previously, Sharon was relieved of duties for the massacre of civilians in Lebanon.

Arguably, he started the latest fighting, now he is in the sh*t trying to solve it. Good for him.

[radio relay]

His visted the Wailing Wall (also known as the Temple Mount), which is right next to the Al Aqsa mosque (aka The Dome Of The Rock).

The Wailing Wall is the most sacred Jewish place of worship. Sharon is a Jew. He has the right to visit a Jewish holy site.

Al Aqsa is the second most holy place in islam. It is said to be the spot from which Mohammed ascended into Heaven. It is right next to the Wailing Wall.

The foolish, and ignorant islamic terrorists are trying to say that Sharon didn't have the right to visit Jerusalem, which they claim belongs only to muslims, and nobody else, not even Christians (kind of like Mecca). So, they are trying to use that as yet another lame excuse to make trouble.

Gotta stop using the CBC as your source of information. They are lunatics and anti-American/anti-Jewish propagandists.

[Joseph P Carey]

Radio, The problem is Loyalty versus Facts!

You my dear friend have a loyalty to Israel over the Country that educated you and you grew up in!

The facts are clear! You deny them because of your loyalty to Israel! They say, "They are blind who will not open their eyes!"

The region breeds Terrorism! Israel was primary in the game of terrorism. It always has been! Have you ever read of the King David Hotel? And, just who it was that was a part of the attack on innocent Brit Agencies and Families living in the Hotel? They not only killed Brits, but Jews as well. Allow me to enlighten you to the Terrorism of the Israelis. For the record, it was not their first act of terrorism, nor was it their last, it became the policy of the government of Israel:

On July 22, 1946, members of the Zionist underground militia Irgun in the British Mandate of Palestine exploded a bomb at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. The hotel was the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them civilians: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured.

The attack was initially ordered by David Ben Gurion, who was in the United States, but he later changed his mind and ordered the bombing to be cancelled. But Menachem Begin, the head of Irgun, went ahead anyway. Both Ben Gurion and Begin would later become Israeli Prime Ministers. The attack was commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi.

Go ahead, deny it now, that no leader of Israel was, or is, a Terrorist! They all were, it is the government policy!

For the record, I do not watch CBC TV, I find my own sources of information, and, added to that, I have lived History with my eyes open! Again, for the record, you are not talking to a religious man, here!

[radio relay]

One man's "terrorist" is another man's "Freedom Fighter"...

Sorry Carey, they were "Freedom Fighters"

Keep on livin' history, man. Somebody has to...

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by radio relay
One man's "terrorist" is another man's "Freedom Fighter"...

Sorry Carey, they were "Freedom Fighters"

Keep on livin' history, man. Somebody has to...

Hell! Radio, I expected the old company line that I am an anti Semitic, or something like that. You do know the company line, do you not? You voiced it once before on here! Below is some dialogue about the Israeli Version of what was written by the author Cristol in 'the Liberty Incident' Let us see what sounds familiar here we may even get the remarks about being Anti-Israel, and much to my surprise, there it is! Read on:

...reply by the Israeli Defense Forces to an inquiry concerning what appear to be deliberately altered photos displayed in A. Jay Cristol’s 'The Liberty Incident', and represented as Israeli gun camera photos taken during the attack. This reply unequivocally states that other than a photo of Moshe Dayan, none of the remaining photos in The Liberty Incident were taken or provided by Israeli sources.

Rather than attempt to refute the facts and arguments put forward by the Liberty survivors, Israel and its surrogates in the United States have resorted to baseless ad hominem attacks that are unworthy of inclusion in reasonable discourse. Typical of the vilification of the survivors of the attack and their supporters are the following representative comments:

A. J. Cristol, reported in the Miami Herald, July 15, 2002:
AJC: The victims of the tragedy are typical of victims of friendly fire. They find it difficult to believe that they were wounded or their buddies were killed by mistake. In this case the victims have been imposed upon, used and abused by groups with their own agendas. First, are those who are on the Arab side of the Arab/Israeli conflict and who try to use the tragedy to drive a wedge into the otherwise excellent relationship between the United States and Israel. Next are those persons who are anti-Semitic or anti-Israel. And finally there are the conspiracy buffs. For the reasons indicated these three groups have continued to probe the wounds of the victims for their own purposes and are not concerned with healing or closure. [Emphasis added]

Now, that is the official line the you proposed is it not? The USS Liberty was an accident, and the victims are being coerced by Anti-Israel Bad Guys. The same with your denial that BenGurion and Begen were Terrorists!

Let us see some differences:
Osama bin Laden attacked the USA because of the USA's involvement in the Middle East, and The Irgun, under the leadership of Ben Gurion and Begen attacked the Brits, because of their involvement in the Middle East.

Osama bin Laden wants to take a country through terror, as he had in Afghanistan, and promote the teaching of the Muslim, with the exclusion of all others of different belief; The Israelis did take the Palestine Area and promoted Judaism through terror, with the exclusion of all others.

Tell me what the difference is here! Both are terrorist organizations!

For the record: I have never seen an anti Semitic Arab, have you? Also, for the record, the Jews and the Arabs are both of the Semitic Tribes. That is History!

[radio relay]

That's your problem.

You love Bin Ladin?

That's your problem, too.

What a guy! Living history, loving islamic terroists, and hating our jewish friends.

Ain't nuthin' like "open minded" liberal logic.

Ok you post some more lunacy.

Had my say. Made my point... 'nuff said.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by radio relay
That's your problem.

You love Bin Ladin?

That's your problem, too.

What a guy! Living history, loving islamic terroists, and hating our jewish friends.

Ain't nuthin' like "open minded" liberal logic.

Ok you post some more lunacy.

Had my say. Made my point... 'nuff said.

I show you facts, Radio, and you give me Propaganda and Rhetoric! You insult me, and you insult your own intelligence! Boy, are you brain washed! You keep spouting the 'Company Line'! You seem to forget that there are other people inside of Israel, not just Jews, but they have no rights in a Theocracy.

Do you know that if a Jew marries outside the religion in Israel, that Jew will lose all of his/her rights in the State of Israel, and the marriage is not considered legal? Deportation may follow! That is the same thing that Islamic Fanatics do in the name of their religion! SO, what is the difference?

Whether you know it, or you believe it, it does not matter to me, but I have, and I have always had, respect for Jews, I just don't have any respect for the State of Israel. Their government is a government with its base in terrorism and deception. They are no better than the Fundamentalist Muslims that we now pursue, they just know who to bribe in our government better than anyone else!

Your retorts are the actions of a spoiled child that just will not see! Insult all you want, my eyes are open and yours are not! I hate Zealots! I don't care if they are Christian, Atheist, Jewish, Muslim, PETA, or what, if a country, organization, or fellowship does not measure up to our US Constitutional standards, than they are our enemies, make no misconceptions about that. For example, I place Saudi Arabia and Israel in the same box, neither are our real friends, and niether measure up to our Constitutional standards, but both are our allies, and the both can not be trusted!

[yellowwing]

His visited the Wailing Wall (also known as the Temple Mount), which is right next to the Al Aqsa mosque (aka The Dome Of The Rock).

September 28th, 2000 he visited the Temple Mount, the Islamic part of the religious site. The Hebrew's Wailing Wall stands at the foot of the Temple Mount.

He made his intention known 4 days in advance and was warned by the Palestinian Authority, some in the Knesset also had misgivings on the visit. But as a Knesset member there was nothing that they could do to prevent his 'free movement'.

Researched from Shalom Jerusalem Feb 1, 2001 reprinting an official Israeli Government release.

[Joseph P Carey]

You do know, Radio, you have gotten it all wrong! We are not fighting solely the Islamic Terrorists! We are fighting Terrorism! The government of Israel most certainly qualifies! After all, the IRA seems to have fallen by the wayside ever since the attack on NYC.

I will make you a small bet right now. I will say that when all the Israelis are our of Gaza, that the Israeli Army goes back in for a 'final solution' to the Hamas Problem, with a 'No Quarter' policy, and a policy that all peoples in the area are to be considered 'Enemy Targets'!

What ever happened to the phrase "Never forget"? Did the Israelis forget that the phrase was not made only for them, but was to apply to any class of people that were being systematically eliminated by another class of people?

Where is the inclusion of other people and beliefs in Israel? It is non-existent!

Let us look at the American that was run over by the Israeli tank in the West Bank. I may not agree with her politics, but she did not need to die under the tracks of an Israeli Tank. She was clearly seen by the driver of the tank, but he ran over her like she was so much trash in the street. IS this the way that the Israelis 'Never forget'?

You do know that I can switch back to 1930s and 1940s Germany, and change the names from Jew to Palestinian, and I can hear the same phrases spoken today in Israel.

Beware the backlash!!! Germany felt it, and Israel will too! It will just take time!

[radio relay]

I'm going to violate my own rules against responding to fools... but only this once! Apologies to the forum admins.
============================

Don't get cheeky with me you lame brain idiot!

You come on here acting like you're some kind of intellect, but you're little more than a pea brained, Jew hating ninny trying to impress with some old moldy crap about people who are long dead, and inane sillyness about Israelis being terrorists.

That kind of thing is not deserving of polite acceptance!

Take your ludicrous assertions, and stick them in the same place you keep whatever it is that passes for your brain.

Now, I won't be back in this thread. So from here on, you and your buddy yellowwing will be free to post more fatuous absurdity. However remember this... The more you write, the more your stripes show!!!

Out!

[yellowwing]

I try to be absolutely fastidious in documenting my assertions. I have the utmost support for Israel. I also have many trusted Hebrew friends that I regularly converse with. The freedoms both nations enjoy allow us to question the judgement of our respective leaders.

I support the Hebrew State, but I do call into question political moves that prove to be unwise.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by radio relay
I'm going to violate my own rules against responding to fools... but only this once! Apologies to the forum admins.
============================

Don't get cheeky with me you lame brain idiot!

You come on here acting like you're some kind of intellect, but you're little more than a pea brained, Jew hating ninny trying to impress with some old moldy crap about people who are long dead, and inane sillyness about Israelis being terrorists.

That kind of thing is not deserving of polite acceptance!

Take your ludicrous assertions, and stick them in the same place you keep whatever it is that passes for your brain.

Now, I won't be back in this thread. So from here on, you and your buddy yellowwing will be free to post more fatuous absurdity. However remember this... The more you write, the more your stripes show!!!

Out!

Run and hide, Radio, you have not defrended one issue as of yet, you have only insulted the messinger. The message still remains and it is unanswered and undefended.

Let us get this straight, Israel is not the representative of all the Jews in the world, and it does not speak for all the Jews in the world. For the record, many Jews are as embarrassed by Israel's actions and tactics as are we.

If you want to go blindly into the night, so be it, walk away! That may be the only thing that you are good for.

But, when you have something to say, other than to insult me for speaking the truth of the matter, than you can come back and you defend the Socialist Theocracy of Israel, and its politics of Terror it exports!

Remember, without the USA, there would be no Israel! The country would have gone bankrupt many years ago without the handouts it gets from our treasury! In return, they stab us in the back every chance they get! And, they make us a target in this world! We stand by them, and they hide behind our shield, while they plot to kill our troops!