Abuse Of Iraqi POWs By GIs Probed

[ivalis]

my one liner

i smell a drumbeat for war crimes trial. uf da

[usmc4669]

my one liner
i smell a drumbeat for war crimes trial. uf da

Hey ivalis it made sense.

By the way here's a picture for you, hope that you like it.

[kentmitchell]

Amazing to me, although it probably should'nt be that they were dumb enough to record that crap with photos.
Kill 'em and forget 'em--after you get the intel--but don't make a record of it. Dumb. Dumb.

[greensideout]

Questions:

How did this happen? It took setting up by someone.

Recorded in pictures? To be used for what?

Timing of the release to the press is uncanny in that it happened at a very critical time of transition of power to the Iraqis.

This all happened a year ago and boom, here it is?

Perhaps there's more to it then a few idiots running amuck.

[eddief]

Leavy it to Army dogs to screw up watching over some Iraqi prisoners.

[thedrifter]

Soldiers Didn't Know Geneva Rules
Associated Press
May 1, 2004


WASHINGTON - The six U.S. soldiers facing courts-martial in connection with mistreatment of detainees at an Iraqi prison did not receive in-depth training on the Geneva Conventions, which govern the handling of captives, a military spokeswoman said Friday.

Those soldiers have been reassigned to other duties in Iraq, Col. Jill Morgenthaler said in an e-mail from Iraq. No courts-martial proceedings against them have taken place, she said.

Their boss, Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, commander of the 800th Military Police Brigade, and at least seven others have been "suspended" from their duties at Abu Ghraib prison, Morgenthaler said.

It was unclear precisely what a suspension entails, or if it is the same as being formally relieved. Morgenthaler said she believed Karpinski had returned to the United States.

President Bush on Friday condemned the mistreatment of some Iraqi prisoners, saying, "Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. I didn't like it one bit."

He was asked about photos showing scenes of humiliation including Iraqi prisoners naked except for hoods covering their heads, stacked in a human pyramid, one with a slur written in English on his skin. Arab television stations were leading their newscasts on Friday with the photos.

"I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated," Bush said.

Karpinski has been replaced as head of the prison by Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, deputy commander for detainment operations. Miller formerly commanded the U.S. prison for alleged terrorists at the Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

A leading human rights group said the military should investigate whether the soldiers' superiors ordered or tolerated the abuse.

"The brazenness with which these soldiers conducted themselves ... suggests they felt they had nothing to hide from their superiors," said Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch.

In the past, Karpinski has defended the prison against claims from freed prisoners and human-rights groups that prisoners were abused, saying Iraqis were treated "humanely and fairly."

Last September, during a visit by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, she displayed torture devices used there by Saddam's interrogators. The prison was one of the most notorious in Iraq under Saddam's regime.

The acknowledgment that the soldiers did not receive in-depth training on international covenants regarding the handling of prisoners echoes complaints from Army Reserves Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick, one of the six facing court-martial, and his civilian lawyer in Washington, Gary Myers.

Charges include dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another person.

Some military officials privately said that training or no, the U.S. soldiers should have known better.

In some photos from the prison, aired first on CBS' "60 Minutes II" and now around the world, two U.S. soldiers standing near the prisoners hammed it up for the camera.

One of the photos showed a hooded prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his hands. CBS reported the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted, although in reality the wires were not connected to a power supply.


Ellie

[SheWolf]

these "soldiers" may not have had adequate training in the Geneva Convention, but some had civilian training in the prison system and had to know that this kind of treatment was wrong,,, all they have done is worsened the situation for all our troops, for what??? getting their jollies,,,

it makes me sick.....

[namgrunt]

What makes things even worse is the highschool hazing attitude demonstrated by the guards. They are laughing, smiling, and pointing to humiliated Iraqi prisoners' genitals, as if they were lording it over some captured "kids" from a competing sports team. It almost seems like a frat party.

There is a breakdown in discipline and oversight by the trainers for this MP outfit, and by their commander, Gen. Karpinski, who was replaced. These dummies deserve jail time themselves. It will be more difficult get enemy combatants to surrender, when they think they will be subjected to humiliation such as the photos demonstrated. Men will be lost as a result.

That is how I see it.
Semper Fi!

[SheWolf]

Originally posted by namgrunt
What makes things even worse is the highschool hazing attitude demonstrated by the guards. They are laughing, smiling, and pointing to humiliated Iraqi prisoners, as if they were lording it over some captured "kids" from a competing sports team. It almost seems like a frat party.

There is a breakdown in discipline and oversight by the trainers for this MP outfit, and by their commander, Gen. Karpinski, who was replaced. These dummies deserve jail time themselves. It will be more difficult get enemy combatants to surrender, when they think they will be subjected to humiliation such as the photos demonstrated. Men will be lost as a result.

That is how I see it.
Semper Fi!

NAMGRUNT AND I AGREE OH MY!!!!!!!!

[usmc4669]

namgrunt:

These dummies deserve jail time themselves. It will be more difficult get enemy combatants to surrender, when they think they will be subjected to humiliation such as the photos demonstrated. Men will be lost as a result.

SheWolf: NAMGRUNT AND I AGREE OH MY!!!!!!!!

As bad as it seems I do not agree with either of you. Jail time for these troops, no way, they didn't ask to be sent over there. Dan Rather is one a**hole for putting this on the air. You cannot tell me that he waited for a year to air this without it being political. As I said before he is a liberal who hates Bush and has shown it in the past with some of his remarks. I bet that if Gore had been President and this happen on his watch, Rather would never had aired this. These MP's should be punished but not jail time, demoted and discharged from the National Guards or Reserves which ever one that they belong to. No this never should have happen. When the truth is found out, I would bet that the CIA will have had a hand in this, it has their trademark all over it. Just my opinion.

Army Report: Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Encouraged by CIA Agents, Army Officers

U.S. news media say an internal military investigation has found U.S. Army officers and CIA agents encouraged the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

WASHINGTON - An Army Reserve general whose soldiers were photographed as they abused Iraqi prisoners said Saturday that she knew nothing about the abuse until weeks after it occurred and that she was “sickened” by the pictures. She said the prison cellblock where the abuse occurred was under the tight control of Army military intelligence officers who may have encouraged the abuse.
Brigadier-General Janis Karpinski said she suspected the reservists were acting with the encouragement of military intelligence units that ran the special cell block used for interrogation and that CIA employees often joined in the interrogations.

CONSPIRACY AGAINST BUSH - CIA AND MARINES ACTED UNITEDLY?

The act of oppression by US troops shown against the Iraqi prisoners suggests that it was intentional. Had it not been so, how the photographs of such tyrannical acts would have been allowed to shoot and who shot them and who allowed them for world circulation? Did the troops themselves want to create evidence against them?
After the photographs were taken, how they were made to pass on to the Arab TV channel to publicize them and circulate them throughout the world so that Bush’s image could be destroyed at home and abroad and the events express that he may lose the upcoming Presidential election.
As a result, even the Arab world has become enraged and the earlier killings of the Americans have become justified by their enemies? It is a serious conspiracy against President Bush and also the American people, since some enemies did not like US to attack Iraq.

[arzach]

This is ridiculous, are you sayin' there are demo plants in the CIA? JHC, the reservists, and for that matter, no one should have allowed photos to be taken...even IF, it was under the supervision of CIA operatives. Would you have posed for pictures?

This is one big black-eye on our Military and us as a nation. Brig time is demanded; this can not go unpunished.

[usmc4669]

This is ridiculous, are you sayin' there are demo plants in the CIA? JHC, the reservists, and for that matter, no one should have allowed photos to be taken...even IF, it was under the supervision of CIA operatives. Would you have posed for pictures?
This is one big black-eye on our Military and us as a nation. Brig time is demanded; this can not go unpunished.

Maybe I didn't make it clear as to what I meant. They should start at the top with the Staff Officers and our Civilians counter parts before they hang our Junior Officers and Enlisted Men.

[ivalis]

it starts at the top alright. Commandante less than zero. Mr "mission accomplished" said that there wasn't any torture rooms in Iraq anymore. What a laugh.

Wonder where the buck is gonna stop reguarding this last fiasco. I doubt that Rumsfeld will get fired.

The emperor has no clothes!

[namgrunt]

Gunny

If the broadcast has been aired only on US media outlets in this country, I might agree. However, the whole damn world knows of this screwup. We can't put the spilled beer back in the keg.

If there are orders telling the participating soldiers to handle prisoners that way, they will surface during the forthcoming investigation. If there was inadequate training of the guards, that will also come out. The prior "prison guard experience" of one of the NCO's may be more hurtful than helpful here. He should have known better and maintained control over his subordinates. That is why he was an NCO, wasn't it?

Let the investigation go to the highest level necessary, but begin with the perpatrators who had their buddies snap the photos of them in that stupid act. They participated willfully. No one ordered them to stand in the shot, pointing at the dingus of some schmuck enemy prisoner.

Semper Fi!

[arzach]

Originally posted by ivalis
it starts at the top alright. Commandante less than zero. Mr "mission accomplished" said that there wasn't any torture rooms in Iraq anymore. What a laugh.

Wonder where the buck is gonna stop reguarding this last fiasco. I doubt that Rumsfeld will get fired.

The emperor has no clothes!

Well there mr. firsthand knowlege, the abuse that is depicted in the photos does not...constitute 'torture rooms'.

The mission was accomplished..mission was to remove sadman and his regime from power; that WAS done, in case ya hadn't noticed. Seem to remenber Dubya sayin' it was gonna be a long, drawn out war...like none ever seen before...it is that. And by the way ivalis, it's better to get the bad guys over there, than to have to get them here. The more 'foreign' fighters in that theater, the better.

Don't even go there, it ain't about oil in the sense of greed, it is tho, because the oil is essential to our national security. Now, before you bring up Halliburton...slick willie recieved more donations and gave them more contracts than Dubya has...so don't go there either.