Women in the infantry

[Tennessee Top]

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[Tennessee Top]

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[Tennessee Top]

Recruits

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[Maddie Barnes]

Thank you all for all your input, it's really helpful and I appreciate it a lot! (I don't know how to do the thing with the yellow box that shows what I'm talking about) So in the 6th reply by crazymjb (mike) you mentioned about the issues with putting young men and women together for weeks or months on end. I do realize this is a huge problem and that it falls to both genders to help fix it. However, I am just wondering (I have heard many people make that argument) why people believe it is a bad idea to put women into the infantry when it seems like they believe guys to be at the heart of this problem. I mean everyone seems to be saying there is a rape problem and that it is normally a guy raping a girl. So why (in their minds) do they think WOMEN should be the ones banned? shouldn't the USMC just step up their efforts to stop such things? Or perhaps guys could just be respect and not rape them?

[Maddie Barnes]

Also, for what my (completely unqualified and inexperienced) opinion is worth, I believe that if a woman can meet the same qualifications as men then there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to join the infantry. I firmly believe that the standards should not be lowered to let women in and no exceptions should be made on the behalf of women but, if women can meet the standards then it is only hurting the Corps to deny them. While diversity should not be the reason women were let in and it may also cause problems, getting thoughts from a woman's perspective (which is often different from a man's) can only add benefits. At least that's how I see it but then a gain I'm a 15 y/o with no history whatsoever in this area, so take that as you wish!
Thank you all again for your time and helpful responses!

[Tennessee Top]

A lot of people share your views about women being afforded the opportunity to serve in these formerly male exclusive positions if they can perform the job - and a lot of people don't. By definition, that's why it's such a controversial topic.

Rape, sexual assaults/harassment, etc has been a problem in militaries around the world since the dawn of time. The Vikings were known for raping, pillaging, and plundering. The USMC recognizes the problems and does what it can to curtail them (it's one of the classes taught in bootcamp). Respect (or lack thereof) is only one factor. Sometimes it comes down to just basic biology and male's sex drives. That's why many people say, and believe, putting males and females together for long periods of time is just asking for trouble. You'll learn more about this part of human nature as you mature.

[Maddie Barnes]

Thanks Tennessee Top, I'm sure it has been and will be a problem but I am not quite sure why that should stop women from joining infantry positions. However, your right and it's possible that I will come to understand it better as I get older.

[crazymjb]

Well the military exists for one purpose. Fairness to an individual or class of people are lower on the totem pole than the primary objective: Mission accomplishment. Mission accomplishment is everything. I think in the right circumstances women are a neutral or even positive factor in the former, many others disagree.

I also disagree that it's basic biology that sexual assault will happen. I think relationships and emotions can't be overridden, but the majority of men don't rape people. It is either mental illness or a messed up upbringing and lack of values that lead to it. It is a solvable problem. Also, I wouldn't expect to get raped, but harassment is going to be an issue. It will be up to you to establish boundaries and enforce them. My wife was a Marine and one of 2-3 women when she deployed, so that's my frame of reference on this. She did deal with harassment and at a certain point she did need to get chain of command involved. It either occurred where drinking was happening and in one instance with a higher ranking MOS instructor (who was married and used her phone number from the class roster to call her and invite her out, etc). If you are wishy washy with what you let people get away with, stupid kids will get the wrong idea and take advantage of it. At the same time you can have very close male friends who you can trust. Again. Boundaries.

Mike

[Maddie Barnes]

Thanks Mike, I definitely agree with that. I personally have no problems setting up boundaries. It's not like the 1st day I will go v=over my "boundaries" in front of everyone but, if something were to happen I wouldn't be weary about telling them that they are crossing a line and they need to f*ck off. I know some girls who have a problem with things like that but it's never really bothered me before, if it's over a line then say something, if it's not, laugh along with them. People definitely need to be careful where they place that line though, push it too far up and you take offense to everything; lay it o far back and your letting yourself get walked over. It's a balancing act and it's definitely important.

[crazymjb]

Just keep that in mind. One issue I think is a lot of male Marines are man*****s and a lot of women do the same thing. Nothing wrong with that if that's your thing, but remember the USMC is your job/work. Keep that separate from your peers. And as you said, it's a balancing act. This is also good life advice in general. Workplace relationships are bad. Being overly sensitive or letting yourself get pushed around are also not the greatest qualities to have. Basically, have thick skin but don't take ****. The plus side is this isn't something you really need to work at, just be mindful of it.

As far as prep goes. PT. Hiking. Keep your grades up. Don't do drugs. Don't get in trouble. Don't get tattoos. Don't get hurt.

Mike

[Maddie Barnes]

Mike, definitely need to work on not getting injured. I think I've got ( or am working on the rest). I get how important it is not to get hurt but I am a goalie in soccer and injuries come with the turf. I overall I think I'm decent at avoiding injuries but when I do get hurt I don't handle it the best (i.e. I ignore it until it gets to bad to continue playing).

[USMC 2571]

Was there any particular thing that caused you to become interested in the infantry, like a book or movie or just conversation with friends? I ask because of curiosity.

One of the members here was motivated to join at least partly because of the movie "Battle Cry", from the novel of the same name by Leon Uris.

I wondered how you came to be interested in joining the infantry. Because you are not just casually interested, but very interested. That most likely came from some experience of some kind.

[Mongoose]

Good point Dave....at 15 years old, there would have to be an underlying reason to become a female grunt. No one just wakes up wanting to punish themselves.

[Maddie Barnes]

Dave, my whole life I've wanted to do things that are somewhat similar. Most of my life I have been wanting to be FBI (BAU in particular). I even played with the idea of military when I was younger but decided to let it go because I knew there would be problems with my family if I kept with the idea. Then over this last Thanksgiving I was in DC visiting my grandparents and I saw a platoon of soldiers (I think Army but I'm not 100% sure). They were all just walking around down by the Botanical Garden and I just couldn't stop watching them, seeing every move they made and watching how they interacted. Then I saw this female soldier come up and just like jump on the shoulders of the 2 guys in front of her. Just seeing that and how natural it was, the way she didn't stick for not being a "feminine" woman (like dresses and makeup and stuff), it just hit me and stuck with me the rest of the week and when I got home I looked into the Marines. Honestly the idea of another branch never even crossed my mind. I never searched Army or Navy or Air Force or any other branch. Then I realized that not every Marine would get deployed and fight overseas and such. At that time I crossed every other option off my list and there was just infantry. Non of the other MOSs even appealed to me.

[Maddie Barnes]

Obviously I know that being a female grunt I will stick out but, that's different. I have always been the odd one out because I would rather go play soccer on a muddy field than sit around and talk about our crushes and do our hair and nails. Even the friends I have are more feminine than I am and so even in my friend group I stick out and am often at odds with what they want to do.

Not sure if that really answers what you were asking but that is when/how I decided this was what I wanted.