Marines and Diplomacy

[wrbones]

gylancaster sent this one to me.



>REAL MARINES DON'T PRACTICE DIPLOMACY
> >
> > (Editor's note: This is a column that one of my officers passed out to
>us
>in
> > the mid-80's. I've always
> > thought of this as the ultimate description of the Marine Corps even
>though
> > it was written as a
> > propaganda piece about the then ongoing Iran-Contra scandal. )>
>
>
> > Real Marines don't practice diplomacy
> > http://www.freekentucky.com/stryarch02/marines.htm
> >
> > By James P. Sterba
> >
> > First, a confession:
> > My initial encounter with real U.S. Marines had nothing to do with
> > President Reagan's beloved
> > jarheads: North, McFarlane, Regan, Walters and Shultz. It happened in
>early
> > July 1969, at
> > Vandegrift Combat Base in I Corps, 12 miles south of the DMZ and 11
>miles
> > east of the remains of
> > Khesanh.
> >
> > I was a young pencil-jockey for a well-known local Manhattan newspaper.
>And
> > after hanging
> > around with the grunts and their pet rats, soaking up war stories and
> > trying to get "oriented,' as they
> > said at the briefings, I wrote a story in which a Marine was quoted as
>saying:
> >
> > 'Worrying about dying is how guys get killed out here.'
> >
> > That quote has bothered me ever since. So I'm coming clean. I hereby
>admit
> > that that Marine
> > didn't say that. My editors put those words in his mouth. and censored
>what
> > he really said. Which
> > was:
> >
> > 'Look, I can abso-(bleeping)lutely guarantee you that every sorry
>(bleeper)
> > who starts worrying
> > out here about gettin' greased sure as (bleep) is going to get his
> > (bleeping, bleep) blown away.'
> >
> > See, this newspaper does it too. It's a media conspiracy. It probably
> > started during the celluloid
> > World War II that John Wayne, Ronald Reagan and William Bendix fought
>when
> > the Pacific, like
> > much else, was black and white. Ever since, the movies, TV, radio,
> > magazines and newspapers
> > have been cleaning up Marine speak like so many Don Regans with shovels
> > scurrying behind
> > the elephants.
> >
> > The problem is that this has gone on so long that some Americans, even
>in
> > high places, actually
> > seem to believe that Marines, say "darn" and "heck" and "gosh"' and
> > 'stuff,' as in, 'then, the stuff hit
> > the fan.'
> >
> > This wouldn't matter much except that the Marine Corps itself has come
>to
> > embrace censored
> > Marine speak as its official language to the point where It prissily
> > revoked its endorsement of Clint
> > Eastwood's new movie, "Heartbreak Ridge," on the grounds that our hero,
> > Gunnery Sgt. Tom
> > Highway, is a garbage mouth.
> >
> > Gimme' a break! We aren't talking here about a few good men (who don't
>say
> > bleep). Those are
> > the poster ladies.
> >
> > The Marines I used to know were about as ruthlessly bullheaded and
> > foulmouthed a collection
> > of juvenile delinquents and intellectual malcontents as could be
>assembled
> > without cages, whips
> > and chairs. And they were proud of it. They took perverse pride in
>eating
> > terrible food and getting
> > along with terrible, broken down equipment (the helicopters that broke
>down
> > during the 1980
> > Iranian hostage-rescue debacle belonged to the Marines).
> >
> > These Marines, of course, were the ones to be with when you found
>yourself
> > in the "deep
> > serious." Trouble was they stumbled into it constantly, whether they
>wanted
> > to or not. And if you
> > wonder aloud why they didn't build bunkers or dig foxholes or otherwise
> > afford themselves of
> > elementary forms of self-protection, they'd tell you fervently, "Marines
> > never, ever dig in.' (They
> > didn't at Khesanh and they didn't in Beirut.) Digging in was evidence
>that
> > they might stay
> > somewhere for a while, which according to a creed, Marines never do.
>They
> > move forward,
> > especially when somebody is shooting at them. It was the candy-(bleeped)
> > Army, they'd tell you,
> > that stopped to think, to call in artillery or wait for air support, not
> > Marines. Marines charged-no
> > doubts, no qualms, no questions asked.
> >
> > Times have changed. Somebody has obviously forgotten what Marines are
>for.
> > They've gone
> > dainty on us. They've managed to convince people in high places that
>they
> > talk nice and behave
> > property enough to alter their job descriptions. They've been getting
>jobs
> > as striped-pants
> > diplomats and even emissaries in the whispery world of covert
>networking.
> > They're passing
> > themselves off as silver-tongued smoothies. They've convinced people
> > they're subtle.
> >
> > Among the Marines I knew, an act of subtlety was a Marine F-4 Phantom
>pilot
> > flying 300 feet
> > above the deck in a mountain-fringed valley and dropping his entire load
>of
> > napalm right down the
> > throat of a Viet Cong gunner and waving to the cheering grunts on the
> > ground as he passed.
> > Whoosh. That's Marine subtle.
> >
> > But these newfangled Marines, who have managed to smooth-talk their way
> > into becoming all
> > the president's men, supposedly do dainty things like deliver cakes to
> > ayatollahs to show
> > sincerity and sensitivity. The Marines I knew didn't deliver baked
>goods,
> > unless of course the
> > frosting hid an enormous slab of an exploding putty called C- 4.
> >
> > Real Marines can be wonderfully charming and engaging. A few of them are
> > nice guys. But you
> > certainly don't want them in your basement practicing their 'can-dos' or
> > involved in delicate
> > military missions, let alone diplomatic ones.
> >
> > What real Marines do best is perform a basic wartime task. They assault
> > enemy beaches and
> > die for their country in whatever numbers are required to accomplish a
> > necessary task. It's time
> > once again to let Marines be Marines.
> >
> > One shivers to imagine the reaction of Lt. Gen. Lewis Burwell "Chesty'
> > Puller, the Marine's
> > Marine, to the doings of Oliver North, Bud McFarlane, Don Regan, George
> > Shultz and Vernon
> > Walters. Imagine his ghost confronting these guys.
> >
> > "Foreign policy?' he'd ask. "You sorry sons-a-(bleeps) never learn. The
> > Marines have only one
> > foreign policy-find the bastards, then pile on.'
> >
> > Mr. Sterba is a senior special writer for The Journal in New York.
> >
> >
> >

[madsox]

A-men to that, Bones ... a-F:emark:CKIN'-men!!

madsox

[Grunt]

OH-YEAH !!!! That definatly stands as a proper post for my explanation of not being able to conform to the corporate society I have recently gained employment in!!! Why the hell should I have to clean up my "act" and foul mouth!! Over Cusser isn’t such a bad handle.

GET SOME

[badbob]

Good post Bones

A snappy Salute here for Mr.Sterba

The Corps may have changed some since us Old salts were P!SS’n green -

I’ve noticed, here especially, with the blend of the new Corps and the Old, a difference in the ease at which we apply profanity to a situation.. The Old Corps more easily grasps and applies profanity because the use of profanity was much more prevalent.

Today, the DI’s can’t use profanity, (I can’t imagine Boot Camp without profanity, that’s where I picked some of my best Fu*king stuff).

You can always tell the Grunt by his foul mouthed humor. There are just some situations that require a strong verbal approach. He!!, I can’t tell a Nam story without considerable profanity, it just wouldn’t sound real to anyone who was actually there.

I bet the Grunts still have the ability to find an appropriate, disgusting, down right Fu*ked-upped expression, when needed, to describe an impossible situation that needs softening with a little Sick Fu*king humor.

The effective use of profanity is an art form, and the Grunts are the Fu*king Masters.

As for you Censures & Profanity Blocker’s out there - FU*K You and the Mother Fu*king, SH!T Green Commie jeep, you road the Fu*k in on.


Semper FI,
Bob Neener
0351 1964-1968

Once a FU*KING MARINE - always a FU*KING MARINE

[wrbones]

I picked up some of my best stuff in boot camp, too, Marine! If ya can't cuss non-stop for ten minutes without using the same word twice, ya never learned how! LOL. I agree. Some of Webster's words just don't work in describing some those f cked up situations we always seemed to find ourselves in. By the way, wingers didn't used to be any slouches in the "strong verbal approach" category! LMAO. Of course, I'm certain sure grunts have an approach that is distinctly all their own! Good post Marine! Ya said it all!

[badbob]

I had just gotten back from Vietnam, was home maybe 3 days when my younger brother came home from school and said that my old history teacher wanted me to give him a call.

This teacher wanted me to come up to school and talk to a small group of teachers, a sort of informal Vietnam War overview in their break room.

I liked and respected this History teacher, he was a good teacher, while studding war, and it didn’t make any difference where or when the war was fought, he would bring in a few period weapons for visual effect. I took him up on his offer the next day.

It was a small informal break room where the teachers would go between classes to smoke and eat their lunches. There were about 12 teachers waiting for me when I arrived 0800 (in Uniform).

I was immediately inundated with a ton of questions, and was enjoying playing teacher with the teachers, when suddenly Harvey Holland my old History teacher, asked me how I won the Bronze Star and the 3 Purple Hearts.

I had forgotten that he was an expert, and I wasn’t really prepared to tell this particular story at this particular time. But my initial rejection was overcome when this cute young Art teacher suggested that I may be a little shy.

So I reluctantly began the story. Unfortunately it began with “We were on a day patrol when 20 to 30 Fu*ken Gooks jumped us”

In mixed company I always do my best to watch my language but, reality struck early on, and it went quickly down hill from there.

My old English teacher was the first to leave the room, and shortly, without much ado, the rest of the female faculty began leaving the room. By the end of my story, it was just the physical Ed teacher, Harvey Holland and me.

There was an early discussion of having me speak to the entire class at assembly later that week, but that call never came.

It appears that my strong language ran off the weak & timid, the blood & guts ran off the rest.

As I think about this, I find it very strange, I was surrounded by people who wanted to know, first hand, what that war was really like.

But when hit with a little reality, they pulled a blanket over their heads and quickly crawled back into their safe little world.

It was just a gruesome story to most of them, only the Phys Ed Teacher and Harvey Holland understood and appreciated the fact that I was sharing, and in fact re-living a very important moment of my life.


Semper Fi,
Bob

[wrbones]

God, Marine. The crap ya brought up in me with that post. Laughin', tears, and pride in bein' a Marine. Hadn't been where you were. Have experienced that whole blanket over the head thing, though. I guess that's part of the reason we did it, so civvie folks here'd never haveta know what it was like. That makes folks like you heros, whether the civvies know it or not. Let 'em be ignorant and innocent. It'll drive us nuts, sometimes, but that's what we did it for. So they'd never haveta know what it is really like.

[MillRatUSMC]

Some really made use of that "Barracks Talk" but we must not paint everyone with the same stroke of the paint brush.
Some might fine Marines did not use any profanity, aka Maj. Gen. O.P. Smith USMC comes to mind.
But even in the enlisted ranks there men of this caliber, didn't curse or boast but they could take care of business at hand.
That why I once questioned an article on 1st. Lt. Frank Stanley Reasoner USMC, my Platoon Commander in Bravo Co 3rd Recon Bn in Hawaii.
What I read did not sound at all like the Marine I served under.
Especially if they were under fire.
I could relate to BadBob, when I came home.
There wasn't a soul that I could speak to about the horrors that we lived through.
Or having to deal with (ROE) Rules Of Engagement, or all these little pamplets they gave us, aka "How to handle your prisoner" The Code of Conduct, etc...
Then being home and being refused service in bar, because I was so dark, the dude that refused me must have thought that I was Asian, because he served everyone else.
So you kept everything to yourself and dranked to drown all those thoughts also to be able to go to sleep.
Below are a few excerpts from a book that I'm reading;
"The Soldiers' Story Vietnam in Their Own Words" by Ron Steinman.

"We found it very hard to accept the pain and suffering that we went through when we ended up losing the war.
What, then, in God's name, was the point of the suffering that we went through?
It was for nothing.
If we didn't win the war.
Maybe we shouldn't have been there.
How do you justify the suffering, the loss of friends?
You can't.
That what makes it tough for Vietnam Veterans."

A Radio Operator in Bravo Company 3rd Reconnaissance Batttalion speaking about the The Siege of Khe Sanh;
"When the monsoon season hit us, I don't think I've been colder in my entire life.
Khe Sanh was socked in by clouds, you have a mist, twenty-three out a twenty-four hours a day.
I'm wrapped in a sleeping bag, wearing a field jacket because it was so cold, the temperature dropped from daytime to nighttime, a good thirty to forty degrees.
It was cold up there at night.
Out in the bush you were just totally exposed to the elements.
We didn't carry ponchos because when the rain hit the ponchos, it made too much noise.
So we just laid out there.
If it rained, we got wet.
If was hot, we baked,
If it was cold, we shivered."
My note;
I found this rather interesting that they didn't carry any ponchos.
But I had read about Recon enduring being wet and cold before in another book about 1st Recon.
They thought it was just going to be a quick insertion and extraction on 30 January 1968 so they left a great deal of their gear behind; ponchos etc.
They got socked in by the monsoon, next they started seeing all this movement towards the cities by the VC and the NVA.
When they reported all this movement, no one wanted to believe it.
So they just laid there as all this movement passed by them.

A Captain, CO of Bravo Company 1st Battalion 26th Marines speaking about the responsibilty of leadership;
"We were sent there to do a job. It was on the individual basis to do your job and try to survive, to come back home if you could.
I think for the commanders, fire team-leaders, squad leaders, Corporals, Sergeant and Officers, it was not only trying to get home but added, the very deep resonsibility to try accomplishing the mission that you had been given, to bring as many back with you as you could.
You were sent to the far-flung edges to serve, and that what we did.
You know, Johnson and McNamara were so far removed from us.
We were sent there with a job to do and to a man, we did it."
My note;
This is as close to describing my thoughts on what I tried to do and how I did my duty in Vietnam.
You tried to survive with the responsibility of leadership on your shoulders.
I also believe that many leaders of that time will say that this too. It describes what they did and how they did it.


A Marine Major speaking about the job they did during Tet of 1968;
"The thing that stands out in my mind more than anything-there many heroes.
Some recognized.
Some of them probably never received the appreciation or thanks they deserved for the job they did.
You certainly have to admired the Marine PFC and the Lance Corporal.
Who was there on the front lines under fire twenty-four hours a day.
Everybody rose to the occasion because there wasn't any other alternative.Marines have a way of rising to those occasions when the going gets tough.
They have for many years, and they will in the future."


Another Officer speaking about our polices and war itself;
"War is an awful thing no matter how you slice and dice it.
Wherever and whenever it takes place, it's an awful thing.
It's something that you almost have to experience to get the visual sense of what is actually occuring.
Vietnam in the years that I was there was a very disorganized and confused place.
If you read anything of Clauswitz.
You quickly come to understand what he meant when he wrote somewhere in the 1830's about the fog of war.
Everything was foggy in Vietnam, policies were foggy, operations were foggy, nothing was really clear.
You didn't really clearly know who the enemy was."

All these stories must have been censored for content, because there's not a word of profanity in any of these stories.
We know that not the way many made use of the English lanuage.
I best cut it here because of the lenght of this post.

Semper Fidelis
Ricardo

PS I do on ocassion use some strong lanuage.
But not much as I used to.
Had to learn to control myself.