Question regarding the Mustang route.

[Gunstream]

Hello Marines,

I've lurked around this forum for a while, so I know this topic has been beaten to death. Nevertheless, I have a couple of questions regarding the Mustang option that are particular to my circumstances. I'm an older recruit (27 years of age) and I'll be 28 a month after my graduation from Basic, assuming I graduate on time. Here are my questions regarding the selection process:

1) I understand that age waivers are practically nonexistant for enlisted service. Is the same true of Officer Selection, or do I stand a better chance of having that waived?
2) I'll enter Basic as a college senior, but not at a highly reputable university. I know alot of people consider online campuses such as University of Phoenix to be like paper mills. Will this be detrimental to my chances?
3) Will I be able to resume my online coursework during AIT to expedite my graduation time?
4) Will Basic place me physically ready to attempt OCS?

I know many people here will advise me to finish my degree, but that's a gamble for me at this point. If I wait it out and attempt to go straight to OCS, and fail, I'll never get to serve due to my age. My primary concern right now is earning the EGA and the title; I'll seriously concern myself with the rest after that. Although I will max out pull-ups and crunches, I'm physically unfit to score well on the run anyway, hence trying to use Basic to polish off my PFT.

If it helps, the positive credentials I have going in are a high GPA (4.0 to date), a 99 ASVAB with composite scores all ranging between 138-142, and plenty of management experience in a civilian setting. The major negatives that I have are a dependent and poor running skills.

Any advice or insight is truly appreciated,
Thanks Marines for your service.

[03Mike]

A couple of thoughts / comments...

If you are looking to go the mustang route, I think you'll age out before you get to OCS. Age waivers (or for that matter, just about any waivers) for officers are extremely rare. There are more highly qualified candidates trying to become Officers of Marines than there are slots for second lieutenants given the pending drawdown in end strength.

RE: Your college -- provided that it is regionally accredited by one of the recongized accrediting agencies, you will be eligible for commissioning. Check www.chea.org to see if your school is appropriately accredited. No one will really care what school you went to. Those folks who hold "online" against you (provided the school is regionally accredited) are basically speaking from a position of ignorance and bias.

RE: Online coursework at AIT -- forget it. You will need to spend your first year in the Corps learning your trade... period. Just because you have graduated your MOS school doesn't mean that you know all you need to know about being in that MOS. Once you get to the fleet, the real learning begins. I would advise you to wait until you have a year in the fleet (not in the Corps, but in the fleet) under your belt before you consider going back to college.

Will basic prepare you physically for OCS? Depends. You may knock some significant time off your run while at Basic, and you may not. Keep in mind, you need to pass the PFT (135 points) to graduate Basic - you need a minimum first class PFT (225 points) to qualify for OCS. In my local area, you need at least a 275 PFT to actually ship to OCS. PT at OCS is a different animal than at Basic. If you drop below the minimum PFT standards at Basic, you go to the physical training platoon to get in shape to meet the minimum standards before you go back to training. At OCS, if you drop below a 225 at any point, they put you before a board and decide whether or not to send you home.

Unless you are enlisting on a reserve contract, don't think you'll get the chance to apply to OCS or any commissioning program any time soon.

Might not be what you wanted to hear, but that's the situation as I see it.

[Gunstream]

A couple of thoughts / comments...

If you are looking to go the mustang route, I think you'll age out before you get to OCS. Age waivers (or for that matter, just about any waivers) for officers are extremely rare. There are more highly qualified candidates trying to become Officers of Marines than there are slots for second lieutenants given the pending drawdown in end strength.

RE: Your college -- provided that it is regionally accredited by one of the recongized accrediting agencies, you will be eligible for commissioning. Check www.chea.org to see if your school is appropriately accredited. No one will really care what school you went to. Those folks who hold "online" against you (provided the school is regionally accredited) are basically speaking from a position of ignorance and bias.

RE: Online coursework at AIT -- forget it. You will need to spend your first year in the Corps learning your trade... period. Just because you have graduated your MOS school doesn't mean that you know all you need to know about being in that MOS. Once you get to the fleet, the real learning begins. I would advise you to wait until you have a year in the fleet (not in the Corps, but in the fleet) under your belt before you consider going back to college.

Will basic prepare you physically for OCS? Depends. You may knock some significant time off your run while at Basic, and you may not. Keep in mind, you need to pass the PFT (135 points) to graduate Basic - you need a minimum first class PFT (225 points) to qualify for OCS. In my local area, you need at least a 275 PFT to actually ship to OCS. PT at OCS is a different animal than at Basic. If you drop below the minimum PFT standards at Basic, you go to the physical training platoon to get in shape to meet the minimum standards before you go back to training. At OCS, if you drop below a 225 at any point, they put you before a board and decide whether or not to send you home.

Unless you are enlisting on a reserve contract, don't think you'll get the chance to apply to OCS or any commissioning program any time soon.

Might not be what you wanted to hear, but that's the situation as I see it.

I just wanted the truth, so I suppose that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for your help.

[Quinbo]

Good scoop from Mike!
For the record "basic" and "AIT" is army terminology that should not to be applied in discussions about Marines recruit training or Marines combat training.

[Tennessee Top]

I never attended TBS or OCS but from what I know about those schools you can forget about it if you are run-challenged. I did have the opportunity to run the trails out at OCS often while at Marine Security Guard School in Quantico and they are not flat (think running cross country competitively).

[Geagle05]

Hello Marines,

I've lurked around this forum for a while, so I know this topic has been beaten to death. Nevertheless, I have a couple of questions regarding the Mustang option that are particular to my circumstances. I'm an older recruit (27 years of age) and I'll be 28 a month after my graduation from Basic, assuming I graduate on time. Here are my questions regarding the selection process:

1) I understand that age waivers are practically nonexistant for enlisted service. Is the same true of Officer Selection, or do I stand a better chance of having that waived?
2) I'll enter Basic as a college senior, but not at a highly reputable university. I know alot of people consider online campuses such as University of Phoenix to be like paper mills. Will this be detrimental to my chances?
3) Will I be able to resume my online coursework during AIT to expedite my graduation time?
4) Will Basic place me physically ready to attempt OCS?

I know many people here will advise me to finish my degree, but that's a gamble for me at this point. If I wait it out and attempt to go straight to OCS, and fail, I'll never get to serve due to my age. My primary concern right now is earning the EGA and the title; I'll seriously concern myself with the rest after that. Although I will max out pull-ups and crunches, I'm physically unfit to score well on the run anyway, hence trying to use Basic to polish off my PFT.

If it helps, the positive credentials I have going in are a high GPA (4.0 to date), a 99 ASVAB with composite scores all ranging between 138-142, and plenty of management experience in a civilian setting. The major negatives that I have are a dependent and poor running skills.

Any advice or insight is truly appreciated,
Thanks Marines for your service.

03Mike got it pretty spot on. Just to add in a few things:

Yes, age waivers are hard to come by, but I know way too many Marines to think of that got the age waiver to say it's rare. However, with the draw downs going on and the fact that your PT is poor at the moment, the chances of getting that waiver is significantly less.

As far as running goes, what is your time right now? Could you not pass the running portion at all? If you are maxing out in pullups and crunches, there is no reason why you can't put in the work to be a strong runner. I am sure Recruit Training (RT) will improve your running, but now is the time to get your time down. By OCS, you will be expected to be in top shape.

Now here's my scoop on straight running (ie. running shoes and green on green PT gear). I can't speak for RT, because I've never been there. However, I know for a fact that OCS and TBS have significantly cut down on running. When I went to OCS in 2009, OCS was transitioning to more combat fitness. I'd say half the PT was running and half was combat conditioning. From what I hear, it's now almost all combat conditioning. At TBS, the only two times I was running in only go fasters and PT gear was for my initial and final PFT. Everything else was boots and utes and combat conditioning.

Bottom line is you will still need to be a good runner. But I'd say gone are the times when running 18 minutes is worth anything but maxing out the running portion of the PFT. Especially at TBS, the ability to be able to put on a lot of gear and operate with all that weight is the key. I'd rather have a Marine at my side that can put on 100lbs of weight and can still fight but maybe only run a 23 min 3 mile, rather than the Marine that runs the 18 min 3 mile but isn't worth anything if not in running shoes and silkies...

Sounds to me like you're a pretty big guy if you're maxing out everything else but can't run. Get your run time down to be the best, but don't lose that strength. I've seen it happen to guys that got so focused on running that they lost their strength. Good luck.

[Gunstream]

03Mike got it pretty spot on. Just to add in a few things:

Yes, age waivers are hard to come by, but I know way too many Marines to think of that got the age waiver to say it's rare. However, with the draw downs going on and the fact that your PT is poor at the moment, the chances of getting that waiver is significantly less.

As far as running goes, what is your time right now? Could you not pass the running portion at all? If you are maxing out in pullups and crunches, there is no reason why you can't put in the work to be a strong runner. I am sure Recruit Training (RT) will improve your running, but now is the time to get your time down. By OCS, you will be expected to be in top shape.

Now here's my scoop on straight running (ie. running shoes and green on green PT gear). I can't speak for RT, because I've never been there. However, I know for a fact that OCS and TBS have significantly cut down on running. When I went to OCS in 2009, OCS was transitioning to more combat fitness. I'd say half the PT was running and half was combat conditioning. From what I hear, it's now almost all combat conditioning. At TBS, the only two times I was running in only go fasters and PT gear was for my initial and final PFT. Everything else was boots and utes and combat conditioning.

Bottom line is you will still need to be a good runner. But I'd say gone are the times when running 18 minutes is worth anything but maxing out the running portion of the PFT. Especially at TBS, the ability to be able to put on a lot of gear and operate with all that weight is the key. I'd rather have a Marine at my side that can put on 100lbs of weight and can still fight but maybe only run a 23 min 3 mile, rather than the Marine that runs the 18 min 3 mile but isn't worth anything if not in running shoes and silkies...

Sounds to me like you're a pretty big guy if you're maxing out everything else but can't run. Get your run time down to be the best, but don't lose that strength. I've seen it happen to guys that got so focused on running that they lost their strength. Good luck.

I'm 5'8, 175 lbs. I've always been a gym rat, and never been much of a runner. Tack on a 10 year pack/day habit that I kicked 7 weeks ago, and you've got the makings of a poor run time. Twenty-three minutes is probably attainable for me, but anything much less than that is probably wishful thinking.

I suppose I'll still keep this as an option in the back of my mind. Like I said, my immediate goal is to earn the EGA and the title. If my final PFT coming out of MCRD is close to what I need for selection, I'll revisit this idea.

[Beltayn]

Worth noting that there is no upper age limit on going the Warrant Officer route. You simply need to be at least a Sgt and have at least 7 years TiS, if my memory doesn't fail me.

[Tennessee Top]

Warrant Officer is an option but WO's still have to complete TBS. He'll be in his mid 30's before he can even apply. Don't know if he'd want to tackle TBS at that age.

[USNAviator]

The only way I see you accomplishing what you want to do is through ECP. But you're going to be right on the edge age wise and as you've been told age waivers are hard to come by. You would have to present yourself as an outstanding candidate. Someone worthy of such a waiver. But your lack of running skills leaves a lot to be desired because you'll be running far more more than you'll be doing pull ups or crunches. Good luck in any event


The Enlisted Commissioning Program allows qualified enlisted Marines in the Regular Marine Corps and the Marine Corps Active Reserve (AR) Program to apply for assignment to Officer Candidates School (OCS) and subsequent appointment to unrestricted commissioned officer grade in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve. The policy, eligibility criteria, and application process are contained in MCO 1040.43A.

The basic eligibility requirements for the program are as follows:

Marines with a 4 Year Baccalaureate Degree
U.S. Citizen
Be of Officer Caliber
Be of Good Moral Character & Integrity
Not previously failed any Officer Programs
Min. AFQT of 74 or
Min. SAT of 1000 or
Min. ACT of 45
At least 21 years of age but less than 30