Barefoot running

[asherdasher114]

I've been doing a little research into barefoot running lately, and am thinking about trying out the vibram 5 fingers (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/) since I don't live someplace that I can actually run barefoot. I over pronate a lot, and consistently get shin splints in my right leg when running more than 2 miles, no matter what shoes I wear. I currently run in the Asics Gel Kayano's. I was just curious if anyone on here runs barefoot or has tried the vibrams? If so, what is your opinion of them?

[SlingerDun]

I'd say running barefoot is worth a try if you don't mind concussion and stone bruising and have not grown up dependent on some type of foot protection with arch support

[Phantom Blooper]

Hell...if it was good for Abe Lincoln.......it should be good enough for you.

Just watch where your running...and make sure your Tetanus is up to date.:evilgrin:

[hussaf]

I recently read an article about running barefoot, but I don't remember where.

As far as the 'barefoot' shoes you are talking about...my buddy bought some and he likes them a lot but says they take a bit to get used to. Plus they kind of force you to run on your toes...which I guess is actually more natural than going heal to toe as far as your running motion is concerned.

That aside...I think most units would frown on you wearing 'toe shoes' for unit PT, so you might only be able to use them when running in rainbow PT gear on your own. Heck, when I joined in 2001, I got yelled at for wearing athletic ankle socks!

Anyway, there are special shoes for overpronators...I would try to find a no-BS running store with specialists (ie running nuts) who can help you as you might need lifts. Not sure how lifts work on bootcamp though, if its allowed...which I can't imagine it is...but I' don't know

[Wyoming]

Occupation
Masters Student

Colleges Attended
Carroll University (Undergrad)
University of Wisconsin Milwaukee (Grad)



Why are you going enlisted?

[FattyTheFerret]

Vibrams are good but you won't be able to use them in boot camp. Best bet is to see a podiatrist and get a recommendation for a shoe that will give you proper support and motion control. New Balance has a solid selection though the ones they give you in boot camp won't be nearly as high end.

Point is, get used to running in shoes. Use the Vibrams when you're done with boot camp and can choose what to wear on your feet.

[asherdasher114]

That aside...I think most units would frown on you wearing 'toe shoes' for unit PT, so you might only be able to use them when running in rainbow PT gear on your own. Heck, when I joined in 2001, I got yelled at for wearing athletic ankle socks!

I know I wouldn't be able to wear them for PT or at boot camp, which is why I am hesitant on trying them. I do have 8 months until I leave, so I thought it might be worth it to build up my foot muscles.


Anyway, there are special shoes for overpronators...I would try to find a no-BS running store with specialists (ie running nuts) who can help you as you might need lifts. Not sure how lifts work on bootcamp though, if its allowed...which I can't imagine it is...but I' don't know

I have the proper shoes for overpronators, the shoes I run in are one of the most stable shoes on the market. Trying the vibrams is kind of my last resort.


Why are you going enlisted?

I am going enlisted because the officer program, at least in district 9, didn't like my tattoo. Also, after doing some research and spending time with both poolees and officer candidates, I liked enlisted better. I found that many officer candidates acted like they were better than enlisted. This is a direct quote from one of them, "I am not better than enlisted because I am going to OCS..I am going to OCS because I am better." I'd rather do the work before I tell people what to do. I wanted to be a Marine more than anything, and I feel that I made the right decision by going enlisted first. I plan on spending a few years enlisted and then applying for OCS.

[Beltayn]

There was an article in the Marine Corps Times about barefoot running a few months back.
I tried it out and loved it, but the problem is that its pretty hard to actually run SLOWLY barefoot running, which absolutely doesn't work for formation runs or any form of group PT. Any Marine that's done a Company or Battalion strength formation run knows how FARKING SLOW the pace is, and it pretty much forces you to run heel-first rather than toe-first. Also I've found that generally your command isn't all that supportive because of uniformity reasons.

But if you are the kind of motivator that runs a lot on your own time, it's awesome. It's hit or miss on whether you'll be allowed to run like that for score on the PFT though, and I personally try to train the way I'm gonna have to perform on the PFT.

Note that you can run toe-first even when wearing normal running shoes, provided you train yourself to do it, and the best way to do so is by running barefoot. It will build up your calf muscles substantially and will allow you to perform better during individual pace runs even if forced to wear standard shoes.

[BR34]

[quote=asherdasher114;64363
I have the proper shoes for overpronators, the shoes I run in are one of the most stable shoes on the market. Trying the vibrams is kind of my last resort.[/quote]

Try another pair. Everyone's feet are different, you may just need to give another pair of shoes a try.

Running bare-foot will do nothing for your over-pronation, it'll probably make it worse.

I actually had to go and have custom insoles made to cure my over-pronation. Maybe you should look into that.

[MicMarine]

Asherdasher114, the five fingers are good for your own PT time. Are SgtMaj and 1stSgt will not let enlisted Marines run the PFT or PT in them period. The XO just passed that to the officers as well.

I don't know where you live but I recommend checking out a Crossfit in your area that offers Crossfit Endurance, or someplace/someone that coaches the POSE method of running. It is a toes/mid-foot runnng technique. It shows you that running shoes are not what the companies say, and that indigenous people and kids run perfectly. It goes against everything I was ever taught about running, i.e. heel to toe. I wear my old expensive running shoes as everyday shoes now after learning the POSE method. I run in Puma Duvalis $40. It however, makes you think about how you run every step. If you or anyone have problems finding info on it PM me. I am all about helping people out, Poolees, and Marines, just put POSE in the subject line.

SSgt O

[tdrt]

My son is 16, 6', 210# and always ran toe first. Looks a little odd for kid his size to run like that but damn he's fast.

[asherdasher114]

Thank you all for the input. I know that they would not be allowed for anything other than personal PT time, which is why I'm a bit hesitant to use them. I do run on my own 4 times a week now, and plan to increase that as my cardio level increases. My theory is that if I can use them to strengthen my feet and start to become a forefoot striker, that running in shoes should become pain free. I was thinking of doing a 50/50 Vibrams/shoes running program. For $75 a pair, I think it's worth trying, since it's a lot cheaper than custom orthotics. I'm kind of using myself as a case study. My advisor does research on the foot and is thinking about utilizing these for some of his studies, so I may end up using them for my thesis research as well.

[Rocky C]

Asherdasher114, the five fingers are good for your own PT time. Are SgtMaj and 1stSgt will not let enlisted Marines run the PFT or PT in them period. The XO just passed that to the officers as well.

I don't know where you live but I recommend checking out a Crossfit in your area that offers Crossfit Endurance, or someplace/someone that coaches the POSE method of running. It is a toes/mid-foot runnng technique. It shows you that running shoes are not what the companies say, and that indigenous people and kids run perfectly. It goes against everything I was ever taught about running, i.e. heel to toe. I wear my old expensive running shoes as everyday shoes now after learning the POSE method. I run in Puma Duvalis $40. It however, makes you think about how you run every step. If you or anyone have problems finding info on it PM me. I am all about helping people out, Poolees, and Marines, just put POSE in the subject line.

SSgt O


:thumbup: OUTSTANDING !!!:usmc:

[asherdasher114]

http://www.barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/index.html
This is a very interesting website that shows the kinetic differences between barefoot and shod running.
From what I have found about the POSE method, it is pretty much what properly utilizing the vibrams will teach you. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
I do have a very good understanding of how the body works, especially the lower extremity, due to my background, so I feel comfortable doing it myself. If I do run into problems, I'll definitely look into a Crossfit place around here though.

[tdrt]

PM MicMarine if you need any assistance, etc.

[SlingerDun]

I can imagine a young enough biped in motion...and through awareness of footfall and muscle memory may eventually or temporarily correct gait fault problems, but most ground other than irrigated grassland is unforgiving

I trim horses with puffed up swollen arthritic lower legs and limited range of joint motion, some of whom spent the latter portion of their "useful" years as police officers. Working on asphalt and concrete while barefoot, shod with steel shoes, aluminum shoes, glue on composite shoes, spongy therapeutic pads and even rubber boots. Some of these animals i can visualize as being conformationally sound before starting their careers on pavement. Equid terms being different, lets just say it's not likely some of these animals over or under pronated, but layed tracks ideally


One question: if you overpronate "a lot" and blow your shins out after a couple miles, why do you think dumping artificial mechanical support in favor of running barefoot will help eliminate concussion related injuries

~Dave

[MicMarine]

I can imagine a young enough biped in motion...and through awareness of footfall and muscle memory may eventually or temporarily correct gait fault problems, but most ground other than irrigated grassland is unforgiving

I trim horses with puffed up swollen arthritic lower legs and limited range of joint motion, some of whom spent the latter portion of their "useful" years as police officers. Working on asphalt and concrete while barefoot, shod with steel shoes, aluminum shoes, glue on composite shoes, spongy therapeutic pads and even rubber boots. Some of these animals i can visualize as being conformationally sound before starting their careers on pavement. Equid terms being different, lets just say it's not likely some of these animals over or under pronated, but layed tracks ideally


One question: if you overpronate "a lot" and blow your shins out after a couple miles, why do you think dumping artificial mechanical support in favor of running barefoot will help eliminate concussion related injuries

~Dave

You question is, if you are a over pronated runner (your feet roll in as you run) will shoes designed for over pronation benefit you more than running using the forefoot/toe method of running (barefoot running)?

No, in the video link below will explain better to you than I could by typing. The bio-mechanics of human are not even in the same area of thought as horses. Check out the youtube video:

youtube com/watch?v=RbaLVGfGN8Y&feature=related

youtube com/watch?v=yqVaLXIvzpE&feature=related

youtube com/watch?v=0P5M1Lr0mgo

youtube com/watch?v=n31DF8ctWsI&NR=1

[SlingerDun]

You question is, if you are a over pronated runner (your feet roll in as you run) will shoes designed for over pronation benefit you more than running using the forefoot/toe method of running (barefoot running)? No, that was not my question...

Question: if you overpronate "a lot" and blow your shins out after a couple miles, why do you think dumping artificial mechanical support in favor of running barefoot will help eliminate concussion related injuries.



The bio-mechanics of human are not even in the same area of thought as horses.comparative anatomy, physiology, form and function, bio-mechanics et al between us and them is a constant field tool and lab source usually beginning with the carpus and tarsus on down to the distal phalanx, in matters pertaining to movement. Major differences being locomotion (2 legs - 4 legs) and a keratin encapsulated springy middle digit, the rest is quite similar, using a dollop of imagination. But, comparative anatomy is used much more often by equid practitioners as opposed to say MD's because of the obvious communication barrier between species

[asherdasher114]

By strengthening the weak muscles in my foot that cause the over pronation, I will ultimately decrease pronation, therefore decrease my shin splints. I do know that my shin splints are caused by muscle weakness.
I have decided to do a little case study on myself with this (yes, I am a nerd like that, but it's also what I am going to school for right now). I am going to look at the kinematic (joint motion) and kinetic (forces) to see if they truly do change with barefoot running.

[tdrt]

Okay. So here's what I understand:

blah blah blah foot blah blah shins blah blah run blah blah

LOL

[Wyoming]

Okay. So here's what I understand:

blah blah blah foot blah blah shins blah blah run blah blah

LOL

Naw, it ain't quite that simple!!:confused:

[HOWARDROARK3043]

barefoot shoes are gay,, i mean really gay,,, it is just another marketing ploy to buy shoes..

if you want to run barefoot run barefoot,,, before the Marine Corps I ran barefoot on city streets everyday,,,,,, you become aware of every step so you actually dont step on as much bad stuff as people think.,,,,,,,,,,,,plus the foot is dead skin anyway.

but after joining they no longer allow me to run barefoot...........

[SlingerDun]

By strengthening the weak muscles in my foot that cause the over pronation, I will ultimately decrease pronation, therefore decrease my shin splints. I do know that my shin splints are caused by muscle weakness.
I have decided to do a little case study on myself with this (yes, I am a nerd like that, but it's also what I am going to school for right now). I am going to look at the kinematic (joint motion) and kinetic (forces) to see if they truly do change with barefoot running.IC:nerd: and hope you're able to conduct this research and post results because comparatively speaking - and people don't like being compared to animals unless it compliments the ego, e.g. she moves like a cat, he strong as a bull et cetera - but folks often do ask and sometimes demand that i "correct" their horse or mules flawed movement by changing its breakover, flight and landing patterns. I'ts one of the most complex aspect of farrier science, ongoing and always spiking debate when an expensive animal breaks down in a race or event. Bipedal research is also interesting to many in my profession.

--->Dave

[MicMarine]

but after joining they no longer allow me to run barefoot...........

You are allowed to PT/Run anyway you want. We have a MGySgt that runs daily at chow with no shes, and teaches Chi running, its like POSE. Running in Vibrams Five Fingers is better that running in 90% of other running shoes.