Will I be able to join?

[USMChopeful1178]

If you have already read this its because I posted it before but it was deleted because I didnt fill out my profile. I apologize for this as I hadnt read the rules but I filled out my profile and I'm...

[Quinbo]

....

[Lisa 23]

Well, if you read the rules, you would know not to say Semper Fi, as you DO NOT rate to say that on this forum.
Rule Six never use the words Semper Fi, Semper Fidelis or OORAH you do not rate that here until you have earned the title of United States Marine!



Military Medical Standards for Enlistment & Commission
Mental Health Conditions

-Behavioral Disorders-
History of suicidal behavior, including gesture(s) or attempt (s) (300.9) , or history of self-mutilation, is disqualifying.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/neurotic.htm

[USMChopeful1178]

Apologies Marine, I'm sorry if I offended in any way as it was not my intention I was just trying to show my respect for the Corps as I strive to follow a similar belief system. It's a bit too late to edit it now but please disregard my use of your slogan I will be sure from now on not to do so, that is unless I reach my goal of becoming a Marine!

I do appreciate you answer, though, however this isn't exactly the case. Perhaps I wasn't specific enough but I didn't do the Benadryl in an attempt to take my own life. I can understand your confusion as I had trouble persuading the doctors to not put me on suicide watch, the reason I did all that Benadryl was simply to get high (yes, people actually DO use Benadryl to get high, pretty crazy but I guess I'm not one to talk).

So I'm not suicidal and I don't have any serious mental issues, just some past drug issues that I could use some help sorting out.

[Wheels123]

Its not a freaking slogan.

[Lisa 23]

Its not a freaking slogan.
:thumbup:

[Lisa 23]

Military Medical Standards for Enlistment & Commission
Mental Health Conditions

Behavioral Disorders
Current or history of alcohol dependence (303), drug dependence (304), alcohol abuse (305), or other drug abuse (305.2 thru 305.9) is disqualifying.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/neurotic.htm

[Wheels123]

Once again WMarine wins. Lol

[Lisa 23]

Once again WMarine wins. Lol
Wheels it's not that I win, if the kid READ what was posted at the link I provided, he would've seen that drug abuse is disqualifying.

[Wheels123]

Substance Abuse!

Marines that abuse alcohol get sent to see the SACO even though its not an illegal drug. SACO being a Substance Abuse Counseling Officer. So it is no different if you abuse OTC drugs to get high. I have seen Marines get seperated for abusing Nyquil and trash like that. These days if you need a waiver you stand almost no chance at getting in.

[Wheels123]

Wheels it's not that I win, if the kid READ what was posted at the link I provided, he would've seen that drug abuse is disqualifying.


Still a win.:p

[USMChopeful1178]

Its not a freaking slogan.
Sorry, sorry I didn't mean to offend. I mean motto, saying, creed, way of life, whatever you want to call it sorry if I offended but that really wasn't the point of this post.

WM I did read the link you gave me and I got the part about drug abuse but I didn't see anything specifically about OTC usage but I suppose that does make sense in relation to alcohol abuse. Still, I'm not read to give up without a fight and if there's a will there's a way. I'll do whatever I need to to get that waiver if you want to help me with advice that would be GREAT but I would appreciate it if you actually tried to help me instead of criticizing my wording.

[FattyTheFerret]

Tell your recruiter what happened. If there's no criminal record associated, you should have nothing to worry about. Listen to your recruiter and tell him the truth. Be honest about anything that may be on your records. If there's nothing there you'll likely be in the clear.

[Lisa 23]

Sorry, sorry I didn't mean to offend. I mean motto, saying, creed, way of life, whatever you want to call it sorry if I offended but that really wasn't the point of this post.

WM I did read the link you gave me and I got the part about drug abuse but I didn't see anything specifically about OTC usage but I suppose that does make sense in relation to alcohol abuse. Still, I'm not read to give up without a fight and if there's a will there's a way. I'll do whatever I need to to get that waiver if you want to help me with advice that would be GREAT but I would appreciate it if you actually tried to help me instead of criticizing my wording.

None of the Marines here can help you get a waiver approved, it's not up to us.
And you will not tell me what I can or cannot do in what I post. If you can't take a little heat hear on a forum, then you're going to have a tough time if you ever make it to boot camp, and if you think I'm bad, just wait until you meet the Drill Instructors at MCRD, that is, if you get your waiver approved first!

[USMChopeful1178]

Tell your recruiter what happened. If there's no criminal record associated, you should have nothing to worry about. Listen to your recruiter and tell him the truth. Be honest about anything that may be on your records. If there's nothing there you'll likely be in the clear.
Thank you Mr. Ferret (mind if I call you that? Lol :)) for an answer which didn't criticize me or my choice of words. Although I do appreciate what WMarine told me and even though it wasn't the answer I was hoping for it was helpful. The reason I still think I may be able to get a waiver is because the term "drug abuse" is loosely defined. I know for a fact that people have gotten marijuana use waived before and the way I see it OTC use and marijuana use is still abuse, it doesn't matter what drug is abuse is abuse and considering I don't have a long history of OTC use I was hoping that this wouldn't necessarily be seen as "abuse" per say but rather "childish experimenting" (come on, our PRESIDENT did this). This is my thoughts at least, I don't know tell me if I'm right or wrong, making sense or sounding like an idiot.

By the way WMarine I DO have a name which I prefer not to disclose so you can call me by my username:)

[FattyTheFerret]

Just because someone you know got waivers in the past doesn't mean anyone's getting them today. Recruiting is very strict these days. The Marine Corps is currently downsizing, not hurting for numbers.

Your recruiter will tell you whether or not it's a big deal.

You should also have everything else in order. Make sure you can PT at least at the minimum standards, you're within the height/weight standards, you have all your educational records ready, all of your vital documents (birth cert, SSN card, license) and anything else a recruiter will ask you for.

[USMChopeful1178]

None of the Marines here can help you get a waiver approved, it's not up to us.
And you will not tell me what I can or cannot do in what I post. If you can't take a little heat hear on a forum, then you're going to have a tough time if you ever make it to boot camp, and if you think I'm bad, just wait until you meet the Drill Instructors at MCRD, that is, if you get your waiver approved first!
No it's not a matter of not being able to take a little heat I can take that especially from someone whose job it is to dish that out, in fact you can insult me as much as you want as long as you're also trying to help me. I'm not trying to say what you can or can't do, we're both American citizens protected by our first amendment rights and you can say whatever you want about me I merely stated that I would appreciate it if you were more helpful than you were critical.

I understand that nobody here can help me get a waiver approved but I was hoping that you guys would be able to give me some idea of my odds of doing so and how to tactfully tell my recruiter about this and get a waiver approved. Of course I want to be honest with him/her but I want to do so in a way so that I don't come off as a druggie, which I am NOT!

Now that I got that out of the way I would like to apologize for offending you in any way and perhaps we got off to a rocky start. I want my time here on this forum to be enjoyable and helpful and I don't really want to make enemies so perhaps we should wipe our slates clean and start over again. If you see it necessary you can trash talk or insult me as you see fit just as long as we're not bitter enemies.

[USMChopeful1178]

Ya, I know that getting waivers these days can be tough but even if I fail at least I can say I tried. By the way, I wouldn't be able to enlist for over a year anyway because my mom put me on antidepressants (which I INSIST I don't need) but I plan on getting off of them when I turn 18 leaving me a whole year to get in top physical condition as well as to prepare all necessary documents. The reason why I'm asking about waivers and such so soon is because I don't see a point in getting my hopes up only to have them crushed a year later.

By the way, hypothetically speaking I do get a waiver, would I be able to get one NOW for drug use so then when I turn 19 I can sign up?

[Lisa 23]

Well, just to let you know, I'm not trash talking to you. This is me. I'm telling it like it is.
You want advice on what to say to your recruiter, just tell him/her what you told the Marines here....DO NOT LIE about it....plain and simple.
Again, with todays high standards of getting into the Marine Corps, your waiver doesn't look good at getting approved at this time. Like FattyTheFerret said, just because waivers were approved in the past, doesn't mean they will get approved today. Only your recruiter will be able to give you the best answer on this, not us Marines.
Oh yeah, and it's Marines, not you guys.

[USMChopeful1178]

Well I guess I mistook your harshness for rudeness but I do respect you for telling things like they are and not sugar-coating it, I thought you were just trash talking but I'm glad I'm getting to see how you actually are now.

For the record I don't plan on lying, I know that it has been done in the past and people have gotten away with doing so with being fine but I don't want to take the risk of becoming a Marine then being caught in a lie down the road. Aside from that, lying to get into the military looks bad for the military and everything they stand for.

I appreciate all of your help and I think that I'll like it here. One last question, though, is there a way I could talk to a recruiter over the phone anonymously or would it be better to talk to them in person? Thanks a lot for helping me you gu...I mean Marines!

[Lisa 23]

Now see, in my opinion, wanting to talk with a recruiter over the phone "anonymously" is lying to me.
Be honest and make an appointment, and speak to a recruiter face to face.

[USMChopeful1178]

Fair enough, I will have to have a face-to-face talk with a recruiter and I will hope and pray that everything will go well because it is truly my dream to become part of the greatest fighting force in the world.

Only problem with meeting a recruiter in person is the fact that I don't have a car and nobody knows of my decision yet so I'd have to tell my parents before I could go to a recruiter. I guess this is yet another obstacle in my way but my true worry still lies in the waiver. Wish me luck Marines in breaking the news to my family THEN talking to a recruiter.

[FattyTheFerret]

You can talk to a recruiter over the phone but there's no reason to do it anonymously. Just tell the recruiter that you haven't told your parents yet and unless he's a complete douchenozzle, he won't rat on you.

He won't, however, be able to start any paperwork if you're underage without their consent.

[USMChopeful1178]

Okay, thanks for the help that makes more sense. Yeah, its cool if it isn't anonymous I just want my parents to find out from ME and not by accident so as long as the recruiter doesn't call the home phone or anything I should be okay.

[Zulu 36]

You will not get a waiver "today" for the drug use. You won't get any waiver until you actually try to enlist and can take care of all of your issues at once. The recruiter won't nickle-dime your paperwork, nor will his bosses let him.

Maybe in a year things will open up, maybe not.

Just remember that choices have consequences. Stupid choices have bad consequences. In combat that means people die.

[USMChopeful1178]

Thank you for your answer Zulu and I realize that drug waivers in today's world are difficult to come by but my issues are already taken care of, that life is behind me and if I am able to get a waiver I will be able to permanently push that from my mind.

"Just remember that choices have consequences. Stupid choices have bad consequences. In combat that means people die." this is a great quote and it makes a lot of sense to me. I can see now where the USMC is coming from when they don't grant these waivers because stupid mistakes in the Marines can possibly mean that people will die.

I was doing some more research on this matter and I came across something interesting. I was told that when the USMC grants waivers they look at the entire person and his/her morality, not just the one instance. For example: two people try to get a waiver for the exact same offense, lets say misdemeanor possession of marijuana without intent to sell. Person #1 failed all of their classes, got into fights, and got suspended from school all the time while person #2 maintained a solid GPA all throughout high school and participated in all sorts of clubs and sports. According to what I heard person #2 wouldn't necessarily be automatically granted a waiver but it would be easier for them to get one, especially if it was an isolated incident.

This is the first time I heard about this but it does make quite a bit of sense if you think about it. I know that the USMC doesn't hand out waivers willy-nilly so I was looking for a way to prove myself and that I really have changed. I would be MUCH closer to person #2 than #1 and I was wondering if what I have heard is true. You Marines may not necessarily know but it would be nice if you did or at least if you offered a bit of insight. Thanks a lot for all the help guys, I know getting a waiver won't be easy but as long as theirs the slightest possibility of me getting one I will continue to try to get one and never give up!

[FattyTheFerret]

I don't think you're listening. A waiver is unlikely because a recruiter will have no reason to spend time filling out the additional paperwork for you when there are ten other kids that have perfectly clean records ready to sign up.

The question isn't whether or not your waiver will be approved but whether or not anyone's going to bother submitting it in the first place. If that even happens, then you have to worry about it getting approved not because you're being compared to someone else looking for a waiver but because you're being compared to a dozen other applicants that don't need waivers.

I'm not telling you not to try just understand, again, that the Marine Corps is currently downsizing. I believe elsewhere it's been posted that Marines are being allowed out of their contracts early or at least being allowed to re-enlist earlier than they otherwise would be in order to save money.

Talk to a recruiter. If he can't help you, talk to another recruiter. Keep trying until you've spoken to every recruiter in the country if you want. If you're committed then no doubt you'll keep trying and I support that entirely. But understand that there are a lot more people trying to join right now than there are slots to fill. Only the top candidates will be taken. I wouldn't be surprised if the minimum education requirement becomes a semester of college, not just a high school diploma.

The point is, go for it if you want but don't take it personally if you're not accepted. It's a numbers game.

[USMChopeful1178]

I am listening and I think that I understand but perhaps subconsciously I don't want to believe it.

I know that during the first few years after the outbreak of the wars in the Middle East the Marines began accepting MORE applicants than usual and granting MORE waivers than usual. This peaked in 2006 then in 2007 the US fell into a recession which is really the main (perhaps only) reason why ALL military factions are downsizing, because with jobs being hard to come by everyone is trying to get into the Marines which means they must be more selective.

I get what you're saying and from an economic standpoint it does make much sense. Why go out of your way to get a waiver for someone when there are hundreds of people who don't need waivers. I get the political and economic reasons behind this and I do understand. However, I'm glad that you're able to support me in my attempt to get a waiver. I know a LOT of recruiters wouldn't want to go out of their way to get a waiver approved but maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones who gets a recruiter who wants to see me succeed and is willing to help.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up but it's not easy to do because this is my dream and its not easy to do.

By the way, regarding recruiters, if I talk to one I don't like I can always talk to another one, right? I'm not locked in to a single recruiter, at least I hope not.

[blackshirts]

I haven't read the whole thread, but if it's documented it will be tough to get in I'd imagine. If it isn't documented...think about it. There are probably 10's of thousands of Marines in today who covered something up while enlisting.

I've seen some Marines on here from the older crowd who said drugs and alcohol might as well had been a prerequisite back then. Don't feel bad, but obviously move forward and strive to be the person you see yourself being rather than the doper you were.

I have to say, I should be thanking God everyday for getting in when I did, because a month or two later I'd have been up shytcreek. I was in a rough spot before joining too and I've been performing at the very top against my peers since joining. Just know that a little bit of a shady past will not make you a bad future Marine. Good luck.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Holy mother.

Listen up kid.....and let this sink in reeeeaaalll good.....Marines here can only offer advice and wise counsel. They can not and do not grant waivers. Only your recruiter can start the paperwork for that, and waivers are granted at a far higher level than him/her.

A history of drug abuse and/or suicidal behavior is DISQUALIFYING. Every-single-time. Now, that DQ *can* be overcome with a waiver, which five years ago may or may not have been an issue. HOWever, nowadays, the story is different. The Marine Corps is OVER staffed. That means inbound waivers for drug use, coupled with SELF DESTRUCTIVE behavior, are going to be difficult, if not impossible, to obtain.

Now, you might very well be an upstanding and stellar citizen these days...but the Marine Corps is a stressful, VERY stressful, environment, and that's just Recruit Training. It only gets moreso with deployments, combat zones, being aboard ship, and just being a Marine. The reason prior self destructive behavior people are almost NEVER granted waivers, even in tough times, is because the Marine Corps generally feels that if you were self destructive as a teenager with that stress....HOW are you going to handle Marine Corps stress??? Generally, (meaning most of the time, there are exceptions but they don't count) you can't. And you become a liability not only to yourself, but to other Marines.

Lastly, you can't 'shop' for recruiters like a new pair of shoes. Your local recruiter is 'it'. I have a feeling WHEN they tell you what you don't want to hear, you will want to try and find some sort of loophole, or shop for another recruiter. Don't bother. If you get a recruiter willing to help, that's great. BUT if the paperwork gets rejected by MEPS, don't come back and say "HEY! THEY REJECTED ME! WHAT CAN I DO?!"

Because the answer is "Nothing. You are finished".

That's the way it is right now. Hard news, but you would not be considered a "Highly Desirable" candidate due to your past behaviors.

[USMChopeful1178]

I know that the Marines here are (most likely) not recruiters and they can't grant waivers I was just asking for some advice. By the way, my drug use is documented (however, I have a completely clean criminal record) but I do NOT have suicidal tendencies or a long history of drug abuse, just a small patch of it.

I get what you're saying about the Corps being stressful but the way I see it it will do one of two things to me. It will either break me and put me back when I was doing drugs or make me and teach me some self-respect and dignity. Of course, I would hope for the latter but I can understand why many recruiters wouldn't want to take that risk. I suppose it's understandable...

I'm glad you answered my question about "shopping for recruiters" and I see how this isn't really up to the recruiter but rather the people WAY above him.

I guess I was kinda unlucky to have been born when I was because I do realize that the military as a whole is trying to downsize and that I'm not exactly the most desirable candidate. I know the odds are greatly stacked against me but I'm still going to do anything and everything I can and even if I fail at least I would be able to say I tried.

With that said I would like to pose another question regarding contacting a recruiter. At the moment I won't be able to talk to a recruiter face-to-face because I can't drive and my parents don't know about my decision yet. I know that I can contact one over the phone but it seems a bit impersonal and I think that I would have a better chance talking to one face-to-face. That's just my take on it, what do you Marines think?