View Full Version : Regarding the path to Com Officer
I am currently a freshmen in college and I enlisted into the USMCR 92 Reservist split program so that I can go to boot this summer and go back to school in the fall. I have contracted for a 6x2 period as an 0331.
Really the only reason I joined Reserve instead of active duty was so I could get my education/degree first, but I am working with a captain drafting a resume for PLC. Now I realize some people will say other wise but essentially what I have heard (and don't neccesarilly disagree with) is that 2nd Lt's arent respected much in the Corps by enlisted men, particularly grunts
Obviously.. I dont like this, because I would prefer to (if things go to plan) command the respect of my men and be source Marines can relate with, understand and respect... dont we all...
Now I have heard that it is also largley dependent on how you present yourself and on an individual as is basis. But this might also be largley not true and stero types are quite strong, we all know that. Its for reasons like these thast I enlisted and am going to PI.
Is my time at PI going to help? Is there a better way of going about this then what I am doing right now and track that I am on? I dont want to be (no offense) a pougie POS who sits so far back from the front lines of anything that he might as well watch it on CNN, and I dont want men to look at me as a joke, even if they give me the false attention due to obvious command structure.
Did I make my question clear?
I sincerely appreciate any help or advice.
Tim Robbins
Hobart 2011
rvillac2
02-12-08, 12:20 AM
Don't believe everything you hear. Individual Marines are respected for what they bring to the team and the honor they bring upon themselves. If you are good at your job, contribute to the team's success, and not lazy, you will be respected regardless of rank.
Officers have a job to do and so do NCOs and non-rates. 2nd Lieutenants are newbies and newbies get picked on regardless of what career you're in. Don't believe the hollywood nonsense that a green 2nd Lt will get troops killed in battle. There's always a more seasoned sergeant backing him up. There is also a more experienced captain making sure the 2LT does his job properly.
Our 2LTs aren't pansies. We know they worked hard to make it to their rank and billet. However, since they are still new to being an officer and leader of Marines, we still expect them to learn from their sergeants.
Lastly, saying that Marines don't respect their officers is actually an insult to our integrity and honor as Marines. Individual results may vary but every officer I've known has sought the respect of their troops by working hard at their job and looking out for their welfare.
I know Lt Isrowei can contribute more to this since he's a Mustang.
Thank you for your response,
I did not mean to insult the Corps in any way regardless of what it sounded like I sincerely apologize. I was just basing off of what I had been told by quite a few different enlisted Marines.
Thank you
rvillac2
02-12-08, 09:41 AM
No offense taken, I was just educating you.
Like I said, everyone will have their own experience. I just don't want you to think that as soon as a 2Lt checks into the unit, he gets dissed by everyone. I have found that people who have trouble with officers have had just as much trouble with a senior NCO. It's more likely their problem and not the officer's. But once again, individual results may vary.
LeonardLawrence
02-12-08, 10:38 AM
Hopefully I will not receive any mortar fire from this post, as it is an oversimplification of the respect issue.
A 2nd Lt.. much like a PFC, has just been indoctrinated in the Corps and has some things to learn. They know the basics, but putting them into action has yet to be experimented with.
This makes for some interesting stories, such as the 2nd Lt. who found a golf course (using his compass of course) in the middle of the jungle, or wrapping communications wire around his radioman's helmet to make a mobile improvies antenna. Not bad ideas, but experimental...just as a PFC has to learn application of his trade, your 0-1 is usually in the same positon at a much higher level in the chain.
Respect is respect, whether you are a Sgt, a PFC or a Colonel. In the Corps it is Earned, Never given no matter the pay grade....
Understood Rv and I appreciate the input it made me understand is a lot more. Its obvious that there is always going to be a major difference between learning it and doing it, whether it be in the Corps or in any other sector. Experience is the best teacher and I appreciate the fact most of all that respect needs to be earned, not given.
The other part of this question, and I have done a lot of looking into it but like many others it only goes so far, is what are the basic tasks of a comm officer? (in this case a 2nd lt) I realize it varies from MOS and sub assignment but are these people mainly at desks in support or are they in the field. I dont want to find out later that I will never be with the rest of the corps and never experience the field.
Thank you both gentlemen.
Tim
LeonardLawrence
02-12-08, 11:31 AM
MOS 2502, Communication Officer (I)*
a. Summary. Communication officers command, or assist in commanding, a communication unit or element. They supervise and coordinate all aspects of the installation, operation, displacement, and maintenance of telecommunication systems. This MOS is no longer being awarded and is retained as a skill designator by those previously holding the MOS. Officers with MOS 2502 were reclassified as MOS 0602, Command and Control Systems Officers. This MOS will be assigned and voided as a skill designator MOS only by the authority of the CMC (MM).
LeonardLawrence
02-12-08, 11:32 AM
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marineofficerjobs/bl0602.htm
Yeah I have been to that page a whole lot of times
I guess I was looking for the personal summarization of description of an officer job. You basically are the director not the actor huh?
Isrowei
02-12-08, 11:53 AM
Now I realize some people will say other wise but essentially what I have heard (and don't neccesarilly disagree with) is that 2nd Lt's arent respected much in the Corps by enlisted men, particularly grunts
I do disagree and frankly I think that this does more of a disservice to the men in the infantry than it does to new officers... even though it is an amazing slight to officers as a whole.
Now I have heard that it is also largley dependent on how you present yourself and on an individual as is basis. But this might also be largley not true and stero types are quite strong, we all know that. Its for reasons like these thast I enlisted and am going to PI.
ALL reputation is based on how you ... YOU... present yourself. This isn't an officer only thing.
Is my time at PI going to help? Is there a better way of going about this then what I am doing right now and track that I am on? I dont want to be (no offense) a pougie POS who sits so far back from the front lines of anything that he might as well watch it on CNN, and I dont want men to look at me as a joke, even if they give me the false attention due to obvious command structure.
Ok, What if I said that I wanted to be an officer because I heard buck sergeants were stupid and had no respect? Think that would fly? Of course not. Even though I can personally name you a list of Sergeants, Corporals, Lance Corporals, and PFCs (not to mention a host of SNCOs) who are incompetant, inept, have neither the respect of their command or their Marines, and generally don't deserve the respect given their rank, much less their person. I've written two horribly adverse fitreps for two different Staff Sergeants within the past month. Does that mean all Staff Sergeants are sh*tbirds? Of course not. To make such an assumption is asinine at best.
I think you can see this issue fairly ****es me off.
EVERY MARINE IS WORTHY OF BEING JUDGED BY THEIR ACTIONS and their actions alone. Not your preconceived notions and definately not by some fairy tales you pick up from others. Making blanket statements about a certain rank being dumb only brings discredit upon yourself and highlights your own ignorance.
That being said, the choice to be an officer should be based solely off your desire to fulfil the duties and responsibilities that being an officer brings. Of course being prior-enlisted brings with it a host of experiences and relationships that can be beneficial to any job BUT it is not the basis of being a well respected Marine. Choosing to enlist as a pre-requisite to being an officer for those reasons only discredits the honor and integrity of the average enlisted member who doesn't pursue a commission because it necessarily assumes that they are incapable of respecting anyone other than other enlisted members.
This is not true. Furthermore it's a damn lie that would infuriate me as an NCO who loyally followed my officers and SNCOs for the right reasons. Just as when I was an NCO I expected to hold the respect and trust of the Marines under me (regardless of whether I blundered some as I learned.. and I did to be sure) I, in turn, gave my respect to those above me who earned their rank regardless of if they blundered through some lessons on their way to experience.
I have met some horribly inept Marines in my time. However, when I refer to them, I am careful to say that Sgt Smuckatelly or Lt Beaneater was a screw-up.. and for these specific reasons. I DO NOT and not accept from my Marines.. blanket statements that label any rank or group within the Corps.
There is a time for humor within the Corps and we've all heard the PFC/LCpl/LT jokes.. but when it's taken to be a basis for life-charting decisions... perhaps it's been taken too far.
That's my 5 cents.
Isrowei
02-12-08, 12:01 PM
Don't believe everything you hear...
Sgt V., you're spot on as always. I apologize this took me most of the morning to write my response while popping in and out of the office (read: Rifle range) so I didn't see the responses written in the meantime.
Behind every good leader is a host of dedicated people working for the success of the unit. For the LT, it's the platoon sergeant. For the platoon sergeant, it's the squad leaders. For the squad leader, it's the fireteam leaders. And so on. Very very very rarely is a Leader ever a success solely on the basis of his own actions.
Trust that Marines love the Corps too much to let you fail. It doesn't matter if you're a PFC or a 2ndLt. And at some point, regardless of what rank you hold, you will in turn take your place as a leader and a teacher of Marines to train the next generation. It's why although Marines come and go... the Marine Corps lives on in its traditions and knowledge.
1st Lt.
I would like to thank you for your comments and input in this thread regarding the subject of becoming an officer. I hope that even if you are upset and amidst your view of this situation and the writer of this post I could mention a few things.
1. I am naive, I am ignorant. What you have not taken into account of the ecxistence of these characterisitcs is that I realize this and am working to fix it. I spend hours and hours reading without posting on this site, reading many books, forms and documents (even some from the USNA, which you might be familiar with) and talking with Marines (which up until some of these response I would have considered an appropriate source at least from the stand point of formulating a well represented piture of what different Marines from different experiences, back rounds and ranks thought of certain issues within the complex social structure and rich culture that is the Marine Corps.) I realize further that no matter what I read or listen to, what movies I watch or people I talk to I wont ever grasp some of these experiences, concepts and situations until I have gone through it myself, dripping my own sweat and bleeding my own blood.
2. Broad Concepts and the honorable men of this site
I have been on this site for time enough to notice two things. One. It is a valuable resource, a modern based forum oozing with information, ideas and opinions of men who have earned the title of Marine, who can communicate and socialize with one another, as well as provide invaluable information to those who are contemplating or have made the decision to take the ultimate test and find out whether they themselves have what it to become one of the few. I have also noticed that people are very easily angered or misunderstand and take the chance to reem and rant instead of realize the context in which the question was generated while at the same time consider the source from whence it came. Were these questions blanketed? absolutley! was this inappropriate and should my generalizations be upheld in any instance or for that fact most of them? Absolutley not. I have no other way of knowing what real men think of others except for asking. Where I need to correct my behavior, learn and grown from that experience and possibly consider the source, content and character of the Marine of who I am asking. I am not in the Corps, but I want to be, more than anything for that matter. I dont have over ten years of experience (from those who graduated boot camp in 97) of which to draw upon for what Marines think, of what happens or the actual competencey of Marines in all positions, NCO's, Lt's or whomever.
3. It depeends on you, well... and everyone else
I appreciate you further expanding on this. I now better understand and appreciate that it is the indivdual's precense actions and ethics that make men see him for who he really is. I also understand much better now how vitally importnat it is that successs be understood through the collaboration, cooperation and committment of the entire unit, squad, platoon, battallion, company, regiment and the entire social, political, and military structure of the United States Marine Corps. This is something that while it may seem like a fundamental concept, may be harder to initially understand and grasp than some would think. It is also crucial.
4. PI, Commissioned or Enlisted
I enlisted to go into the Marine Corps because I want a chance to prove that I have what it takes on the inside; Honor, Courage, Committment and other intangibles that are so cherrished by the traditional culture that is the Corps. I feel that the expeirences I will go through on PI will help me down the road at PLC, TBS and the Corps. If the path to Comm Officer is what I take I would like to have the ability to relate to common experiences of those under my rank. I want the discipline of the Corps to further fuel my determination regarding school and anything else I come across in life. I want the identity, the brotherhood, and as abstract and figurative as it sounds.. I am a patriot and, unlike the grossly large and ever growing mass of my peers I choose to uphold the good of what my country is even in the dark of public sentiment, societal stratification global war.
I know that all 2nd Lt's are different, they vary in exsperience, competency, attitude, and commitment to the Corps. I appologize for being so general and the following threads posted by this Poolee will be more carefully constructed and thought out.
I hope you draw from the above that I respect your statements, understand your anger and greatly appreciate your input. I want all Marines who read this, who meet me on our different but intersecting course of life to understand that I realize I am ignorant, but I am trying to learn, want to learn more. The ultimate goal is to the best damn job you possibly can.
Regards
Tim Robbins
Hobart 2011'
Isrowei
02-12-08, 12:42 PM
Tim, thanks for the reply.
Please be clear that I am not upset with you personally. Not at all. It is merely the idea that irks me. It certainly did not originate with you and therefore would be unfair for me to dump that at your feet.
Take the advice for what it is and try to make a knowledable informed decision for your future. Good luck.
I have also noticed that people are very easily angered or misunderstand and take the chance to reem and rant instead of realize the context in which the question was generated while at the same time consider the source from whence it came.
I think you'll find that if/when you finish boot camp/ocs the Marine Corps has an above average ammount out "easily angered" people.
However, those easily angered people are, and I can only speak for the 90%, not angry at you personally, but the issue.
I have a few Marines that have from time to time had to ream out till I was blue in the face. Was a ****ed at them? Well yes I was, but I was ****ed because of what they did, not who they are. After that verbal counseling, we move on and forget about it. Dont take the chew out sessions personally, the Marines are ****ed because you did something wrong, and this is how we correct it. Again I can't speak for the bottom 10%, but you'll find them anywhere.
Finally, most of the Marines who get ****ed off on this site is because of the poolies that show the inability to follow simple instructions. How hard is it to do a search? How hard is it to read the rules of the site? How hard is it to fill out your profile? How hard is it to use proper punctuation? See my point. You'd probally get a little frusterated as well.
I guess it doesn't like the work pi.ssed...
Tim, thanks for the reply.
Please be clear that I am not upset with you personally. Not at all. It is merely the idea that irks me. It certainly did not originate with you and therefore would be unfair for me to dump that at your feet.
Take the advice for what it is and try to make a knowledable informed decision for your future. Good luck.
To have a 1st Lt. let alone a USNA educated Marine, or a Marine at all for that matter answer me passionatley and thoroughly made an reeming a learning experience whether it was directed at me personally or not.
I must make it clear, for I failed to do so in my initial post that I also can completley understand why Marines get mad on this site. It is full of poolees who ask questions ranging from "what happens when I crash my F-18?" to general questions that could be answered through a search of anything, let a lone just this website. I would be angry too. It was my immaturity that caused me to retalliate, and it is somethhing I will correct; or I had better because that trash wont fly in the Corps.
Thank you to you and all who answered my question.
The Highest Respect,
Tim Robbins