cadetat6
09-24-07, 01:31 PM
No 1
Hi Again Art
When we were flying phase training at Chatham Fld. Sav. Ga. We were training formation flying and hit a weather front , I didn’t see it, but one plane crashed. The only person who got out was the ball turret man. There is no room for a chute so you have to leave it on the deck, now this man climbed out of the ball , got his chute on , saw the guys in the waist pinned by centrifugal force to the side of the plane, and had no idea how or where he left the plane. He was the only person to survive. When we were flying missions we could see the B-17s off to the right or left of our bomber stream and would see them spin in then they might come out of the spin for a minute and you would see some chutes pop out., then it would start to spin again sometimes the rest of the way to the ground. I would imagine some would get out thru the bomb bay, or the waist window , or the back door on the B-17, or the bottom hatch at the back of the B-24. This was a awful feeling seeing these planes going down. We were very lucky that no 262’s hit us, as they would come thru the formation and knock down 2 or 3 planes with one pass. If the Germans would have had more time to build these jet’s it would have made one hell of a difference to the AF. I was 5-8 tall and weighed 150 lbs---a good size for the ball. I think any one taller would have had a hard down there as even with my size it was crowded.
hwhap
Oct 18 2003, 09:41 PM
Post #34
General
Group: General
Posts: 1849
Joined: 19-April 03
Member No.: 566
Thanks for posting the letter Art. It's very interesting.
Vee
cadetat6
Oct 21 2003, 11:42 AM
Post #35
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Letter from my friend Ken
Ken # 3
After finishing gunnery school at Tyndall Fld. In Florida, We reported to Westover Fld. Mass. And this is where we formed our crew. Our pilot was a former guard on the Ohio State football team. We then went to Chatham Fld. At Sav. Ga. For phase training which consisted of camera gunner flts.—tow target firing---formation flying--- all these good things. The first time we had a nite flt. Was to drop dummy bombs on the bombing range. We started our bomb run and the bombider was flying the plane with the bomb sight and all at once he yelled To the pilot take the plane---turn left, turn left nooooo J---turn right now!!!Dave whipped that 24 on it’s right wing in a turning dive and we just missed another B-24 coming in on the same range the wrong way!!!Now needless to say I never enjoyed flying at nite after this. I said to myself this is happening here in the states what the hell is it going to be like when we get overseas.
We finished phase training and went up to Mitchell Fld. Where they gave us a new B-24. We left there and opened up our orders and destination was to the 8th AF via North Atlantic . We were to land at either N.H. Bgr. Or P.I.. before heading to Goose Bay Lab. Now being from P.I. I hoped we would land there, but the way the army works we landed in N.H. and was there for 5 days . We flew right over my home on the way to Goose. After landingat Goose we were taxing on ice and in trying to make a turn slid into a B-17 taking the nose out of it, and crumpled our wing tip. They had to board up the nose of the 17 and fly it back to the states and by god they had a wing tip at Goose and replaced ours. I don’t know if the 17 crew was glad to be going back or ready to kill us. We then flew to Iceland and weathered in there for almost a week before going to Meeks Fld. They took the 24 away from us and we were transported to the 453rd BG at Old Buckingham Eng.
cadetat6
Oct 22 2003, 10:52 AM
Post #36
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Another letter from my friend Ken
This happened on one of our missions---The weather was bad over England, so someone thought we should take off and climb to 14 thousand ft. over France. It is hard enough trying to form up in good weather, but this was crazy as hell. We could feel the plane shake from turbulense so you knew other planes were near and hoped you didn’t have a mid-air collision. At 14 thousand ft. we were still in the soup and finally broke out at about 20,000 ft.. In the meantime our nav. Aids went out—the mission was re-called and we didn’t get it.We were lost and circled around—the co-pilot trying to reach some one on the radio when we saw 3 fighters coming at us. The P-47 and FW-190 have the same shape head on so the pilot told us not to fire until we were certain what the plane was---thank god they were our P-47s and they led over to a group of B-17s. there was also another B-24 flying with them. We figured we would go with them , witch we did and dropped our bombs,then fly back to their base,and get a heading back to our base. Well they let down thru the soup knowing where they were going and we lost them. We had to climb up thru this mess and the co-pilot got some one on the emer. Freq. It was an English lass and did she ever sound nice. She made us fly a triangle, then gave us a heading back to England. We let down over the channel and a couple of Spitfires came and checked us out, then we were given a heading back to our base. We landed and got cedit for a mission and so did our group. This was some nerve racking flying and our pilot was glad to get us back on the ground. Now landing we found out 2 of our planes didn’t come back and one of them was a kid from Presque Isle that I had gone to school with. His father was a diary farmer and delivered milk to Dad’s store. I thought I would be writing his parents about Jerry missing and all that stuff. Well the next day both planes came back and the guys were hungover and had loads of booze, as they had landed in France. I told Jerry that was the last time I would worry over him!! They didn’t get credit for a mission either.
cadetat6
Oct 26 2003, 08:07 PM
Post #37
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Letter from my friend Ken,
Hi Art,
When the air crews first arrived in England they really had it rough. We didn:t have a fighter that could escourt the bombers all the way in and back on a mission. The Germans had plenty of fighters and shot down so many of our bombers that the life of a crew was not very long. If they got 25 in it was quite a feat. The P-51 changed the odds a lot and the number of missions was raised to 30 and then to 35. If you stop and analize the fact that there were at least 10 men on each plane and at least 8 planes in each sqdn., 4 sqdns in each bomb gp, so a gp. could have as many as 32 to 40 planes flying a mission. A bomb gp. in the early days of the war had only one plane return, so multiply this by 10 and this is why the Air Force had such a high loss.
I am so glad I got over there when I did. We had those beautiful P-51s with us all the way. The flak was still rough, but at least our chances were much better than the early crews.
Thanks for the forward about the 453rd memorial at Old Buckingham
cadetat6
Oct 28 2003, 12:49 PM
Post #38
Hi Again Art
When we were flying phase training at Chatham Fld. Sav. Ga. We were training formation flying and hit a weather front , I didn’t see it, but one plane crashed. The only person who got out was the ball turret man. There is no room for a chute so you have to leave it on the deck, now this man climbed out of the ball , got his chute on , saw the guys in the waist pinned by centrifugal force to the side of the plane, and had no idea how or where he left the plane. He was the only person to survive. When we were flying missions we could see the B-17s off to the right or left of our bomber stream and would see them spin in then they might come out of the spin for a minute and you would see some chutes pop out., then it would start to spin again sometimes the rest of the way to the ground. I would imagine some would get out thru the bomb bay, or the waist window , or the back door on the B-17, or the bottom hatch at the back of the B-24. This was a awful feeling seeing these planes going down. We were very lucky that no 262’s hit us, as they would come thru the formation and knock down 2 or 3 planes with one pass. If the Germans would have had more time to build these jet’s it would have made one hell of a difference to the AF. I was 5-8 tall and weighed 150 lbs---a good size for the ball. I think any one taller would have had a hard down there as even with my size it was crowded.
hwhap
Oct 18 2003, 09:41 PM
Post #34
General
Group: General
Posts: 1849
Joined: 19-April 03
Member No.: 566
Thanks for posting the letter Art. It's very interesting.
Vee
cadetat6
Oct 21 2003, 11:42 AM
Post #35
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Letter from my friend Ken
Ken # 3
After finishing gunnery school at Tyndall Fld. In Florida, We reported to Westover Fld. Mass. And this is where we formed our crew. Our pilot was a former guard on the Ohio State football team. We then went to Chatham Fld. At Sav. Ga. For phase training which consisted of camera gunner flts.—tow target firing---formation flying--- all these good things. The first time we had a nite flt. Was to drop dummy bombs on the bombing range. We started our bomb run and the bombider was flying the plane with the bomb sight and all at once he yelled To the pilot take the plane---turn left, turn left nooooo J---turn right now!!!Dave whipped that 24 on it’s right wing in a turning dive and we just missed another B-24 coming in on the same range the wrong way!!!Now needless to say I never enjoyed flying at nite after this. I said to myself this is happening here in the states what the hell is it going to be like when we get overseas.
We finished phase training and went up to Mitchell Fld. Where they gave us a new B-24. We left there and opened up our orders and destination was to the 8th AF via North Atlantic . We were to land at either N.H. Bgr. Or P.I.. before heading to Goose Bay Lab. Now being from P.I. I hoped we would land there, but the way the army works we landed in N.H. and was there for 5 days . We flew right over my home on the way to Goose. After landingat Goose we were taxing on ice and in trying to make a turn slid into a B-17 taking the nose out of it, and crumpled our wing tip. They had to board up the nose of the 17 and fly it back to the states and by god they had a wing tip at Goose and replaced ours. I don’t know if the 17 crew was glad to be going back or ready to kill us. We then flew to Iceland and weathered in there for almost a week before going to Meeks Fld. They took the 24 away from us and we were transported to the 453rd BG at Old Buckingham Eng.
cadetat6
Oct 22 2003, 10:52 AM
Post #36
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Another letter from my friend Ken
This happened on one of our missions---The weather was bad over England, so someone thought we should take off and climb to 14 thousand ft. over France. It is hard enough trying to form up in good weather, but this was crazy as hell. We could feel the plane shake from turbulense so you knew other planes were near and hoped you didn’t have a mid-air collision. At 14 thousand ft. we were still in the soup and finally broke out at about 20,000 ft.. In the meantime our nav. Aids went out—the mission was re-called and we didn’t get it.We were lost and circled around—the co-pilot trying to reach some one on the radio when we saw 3 fighters coming at us. The P-47 and FW-190 have the same shape head on so the pilot told us not to fire until we were certain what the plane was---thank god they were our P-47s and they led over to a group of B-17s. there was also another B-24 flying with them. We figured we would go with them , witch we did and dropped our bombs,then fly back to their base,and get a heading back to our base. Well they let down thru the soup knowing where they were going and we lost them. We had to climb up thru this mess and the co-pilot got some one on the emer. Freq. It was an English lass and did she ever sound nice. She made us fly a triangle, then gave us a heading back to England. We let down over the channel and a couple of Spitfires came and checked us out, then we were given a heading back to our base. We landed and got cedit for a mission and so did our group. This was some nerve racking flying and our pilot was glad to get us back on the ground. Now landing we found out 2 of our planes didn’t come back and one of them was a kid from Presque Isle that I had gone to school with. His father was a diary farmer and delivered milk to Dad’s store. I thought I would be writing his parents about Jerry missing and all that stuff. Well the next day both planes came back and the guys were hungover and had loads of booze, as they had landed in France. I told Jerry that was the last time I would worry over him!! They didn’t get credit for a mission either.
cadetat6
Oct 26 2003, 08:07 PM
Post #37
Lieutenant
Group: Lieutenant
Posts: 120
Joined: 27-July 03
From: Novi, Michigan
Member No.: 718
Letter from my friend Ken,
Hi Art,
When the air crews first arrived in England they really had it rough. We didn:t have a fighter that could escourt the bombers all the way in and back on a mission. The Germans had plenty of fighters and shot down so many of our bombers that the life of a crew was not very long. If they got 25 in it was quite a feat. The P-51 changed the odds a lot and the number of missions was raised to 30 and then to 35. If you stop and analize the fact that there were at least 10 men on each plane and at least 8 planes in each sqdn., 4 sqdns in each bomb gp, so a gp. could have as many as 32 to 40 planes flying a mission. A bomb gp. in the early days of the war had only one plane return, so multiply this by 10 and this is why the Air Force had such a high loss.
I am so glad I got over there when I did. We had those beautiful P-51s with us all the way. The flak was still rough, but at least our chances were much better than the early crews.
Thanks for the forward about the 453rd memorial at Old Buckingham
cadetat6
Oct 28 2003, 12:49 PM
Post #38