Wow

[Achped]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd7_yp0Hkwc&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_yXD5kE2Sk

I'm not a USMC recruit, so I still have no place to talk about USN recruits, but dude....I totally joined the right branch. I'm glad when I go to my boot camp graduation, I won't just be "in the Marines", I will be a Marine...and a man.

[Motorola07]

Yeah!!! same here...

[ianmusto]

I hate to say it, but wednsday workouts at the RS are more intense than this...

[HurricaneRJ]

The only thing about the Navy I like is co-ed showers.

[HurricaneRJ]

**** that. Watch the Air Force!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eHv0MC1k44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzovDyTQW7Q

They get to watch TV!!!?!?!?

[rvillac2]

Now you see why they make such a big deal about BUD/S.

Air Force and Navy recruit training is much more like a vocational school than anything. Only the Marine Corps and the Army start off our training as warriors first and other occupation second.

[HurricaneRJ]

I see.

There was a report about SEAL recruiting is getting lower because of the newly found popularity of Rangers and Force Recon.

I have to find it again and post that.

[Achped]

I talked to Accord a few days ago, he said

"The biggest difference between the Marine Corps and the other branches, is that the Marine Corps puts mission accomplishment first. You don't eat until your weapon is clean, you don't shower until your trash is in order, you don't take weekend liberty unless you've performed flawlessly that week, and death is the only reason why you should fail your mission."

[JIPeterson]

I gotta be honest, I could not watch the Air Force one because it seemed like a daycare for adults and it seemed like everybody in the Navy video was on Riddelin. NO EMOTION!!! Biggest change of their lives and it seems like they are walking through the motions and don't care. No offense to any other service because my brother is in the Air Force but seriously.

[HurricaneRJ]

Well like the new Marine Corps documentary says.

The younger generation is gearing towards the elite organization.

Air Force and Navy dosen't cut it.

[fraser]

nothin wrong with the Navy

[Marine84]

nothin wrong with the Navy

DAMN RIGHT it ain't - WE need them for a ride!!!!! :) :banana:

[RuffNight2007]

Nothin wrong with a ride :nerd:

[HurricaneRJ]

My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment (MARINE)

[Marine84]

Good one Hurricane!

[PooleeMari]

i think its funny that they worked to earn those corny navy hats....

[HurricaneRJ]

I wouldn't call it work!
Look at the comments on the video, the Sailors says it wasn't hard, just boring.

Did you see the Air Force "Basic Military Training"?

You have to complete 1 mile in 10 mins?? Hell some came in 20???? WOW!!!! what a jaw dropper, I'm surprised we got more poolies at the RSS when the Air Force is next door.

[PooleeMari]

nah man, that is work...come on fighting firs, having a guy in a sailor uniform get in your face...its hardcore stuff man.:p

[Marine84]

I made one mad when I went to missile school in FL - little skinny fella and them dungarees hanging off his a$$ looked like a family had moved out the back end. I asked him one day if he took "noassatall" pills - he said no he didn't take pills and wanted to know why I asked - I told him cause he didn't have no a$$ at ALL to fill up them dungarees......................he stayed mad at me for the whole 6 weeks.

[davblay]

I made one mad when I went to missile school in FL - little skinny fella and them dungarees hanging off his a$$ looked like a family had moved out the back end. I asked him one day if he took "noassatall" pills - he said no he didn't take pills and wanted to know why I asked - I told him cause he didn't have no a$$ at ALL to fill up them dungarees......................he stayed mad at me for the whole 6 weeks.


:D

Good morning KIM, good to see you are in good form this morning! :beer:

[Kildars]

LOL! The Airforce one made me laugh so hard when they were getting off the bus.

"Don't run, don't run." "Use the handrail"

[Integrity57]

I think the hardest physical training in the Air Force is MAYBE the SERE training for the flight crews, well that and the Combat Controller training.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Integrity the Combat Controllers and PJs are the best of the best at what they do. (Well second best for Combat Controllers- ANGLICO is better) and they are full of some hard core high speed, low drag individuals. Their indoc resembles something you would do for a recon indoc. They are expected to meet the same physical fitness goals as any other person assigned to USSOCOM. They are no joke.

Now, everyone else in the Air Force probably doesn't PT as hard as a platoon of Young Marines. But, their mission doesn't really require fitness.

[PatriotGirl422]

Haha makes me proud to be going to Marine boot camp in two weeks! My favorite parts of the clips: In the Navy one where the instructor says "Good afternoon, recruits" and they joyfully say "Good afternoon!" like a bunch of boy scouts. And the Air Force girl "I only brought one bag with me to basic training, that's the smart thing to do". And then in the Marine video the DI telling the recruit that he should have joined the Army.

[Integrity57]

Integrity the Combat Controllers and PJs are the best of the best at what they do. (Well second best for Combat Controllers- ANGLICO is better) and they are full of some hard core high speed, low drag individuals. Their indoc resembles something you would do for a recon indoc. They are expected to meet the same physical fitness goals as any other person assigned to USSOCOM. They are no joke.

Now, everyone else in the Air Force probably doesn't PT as hard as a platoon of Young Marines. But, their mission doesn't really require fitness.

I agree E4B, they are the best the Air Force has to offer, I was just saying that they have the hardest physical training out of any other AFS. But lets not crack on the Navy too hard, that's my second and last choice if I can't get a waiver approved when I enlist.

[Zulu 36]

Haha makes me proud to be going to Marine boot camp in two weeks! My favorite parts of the clips: In the Navy one where the instructor says "Good afternoon, recruits" and they joyfully say "Good afternoon!" like a bunch of boy scouts. And the Air Force girl "I only brought one bag with me to basic training, that's the smart thing to do". And then in the Marine video the DI telling the recruit that he should have joined the Army.

My oldest daughter is in the Air Force Reserves. When she went to basic, she showed me the list of stuff they were supposed to bring with them. It was incredible. Some of the stuff for females was understandable (such as pads/tampons of preference), but the male list was ridiculous. Essentially you had to show up with at least one bag.

I showed her what I was told to bring to Marine boot camp. I just stood up and after a minute of silence she asked, "What stuff, Dad?" I said, "Baby, you're looking at the whole list. Me and the clothes on my (then) skinny ass."

And we couldn't keep the civvies we came in - they were shipped home.

[Curt Geezus]

I know Navy boot camp isn't supposed to be all that hard, but this looks like one of those videos made for parents. I'm sure most of you have seen the videos about Marine boot camp that don't even show the DI's yelling.


Now you see why they make such a big deal about BUD/S.

I think BUD/S deserves that attention from what I have seen and heard.


You have to complete 1 mile in 10 mins?? Hell some came in 20???? WOW!!!! what a jaw dropper, I'm surprised we got more poolies at the RSS when the Air Force is next door.

I don't know the exact time but that is not right. I have 2 friends in the Air Force and as of last year, they had to complete 1.5 miles in 13:30 I THINK. Which isn't that tough but you still have to be in somewhat decent shape to do it.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

BUD/S isn't as difficult as they let on. The reason their success rate is so low is because they can ring the bell and leave. Honestly, if that bell was at MCRD there would be fewer Marines. Now, I am not saying boot camp is as difficult as BUD/S, because it isn't. But, the metal aspect of Marine Recruit Training is just as harsh.

That run was more than one mile. The TI told them to listen to the instructor at the mile mark and that they needed to be at or under 10 minutes. I would guess they were going to run 1 1/2 miles, but I don't know. You are correct that some were at 20 minutes and that is just unacceptable.

[HurricaneRJ]

I think BUD/S deserves that attention from what I have seen and heard.

My oldest brother told me why BUD/S had such a failure rate is that the mental thrashing that they get is nothing they ever experienced.

If you look at the BUD/S training on the military channel, you can see some candidates with belly sticking out, some can't run with boots and utes because they never have been in that type of enviroment.

Sure, run about 5 miles, do about 30 pull-ups, and get about 200 crunches while your at it, but nothing can prepare most sailors the hardship, they never had it at Basic Training and when they hit BUD/S it finally hits them, a major culture shock and all they have to do is ring that bell. Like Cpl. said, its the mentality of MCRD.

Not only that, you have to take a sailor who dosen't have a warrior first background, some haven't even qualified with a rifle, some never shot one, some never put on a pack and move out for 10-12 miles. Plus you have to teach these sailors the basic and advance of infantry combat before they can move on to the special operations.

But now the SEALs are in the low areas of retention, no longer are people wanting to be SEALs, since Recon Indoc is open to almost any 03xx Marine and Ranger school has an option contract with ABN, Rangers and Marine Recon are bringing sexy back.:banana:

I also like how my brother put it as well.

"No matter how much a SEAL can brag, they still were molded by Marines."
"SEALs may claim they're original, but the Marine Raiders were the first!"

[Marine84]

But lets not crack on the Navy too hard, that's my second and last choice if I can't get a waiver approved when I enlist.

You'll look cute in your little sailor uniform.

[Integrity57]

lmao! Thanks '84, actually that's the part I hate the most about the Navy, those white Sailor uniforms kill me, they need to update their uniforms.

[Marine84]

Their work uniform with that stupid little sailor hat is the one you'll hate!

[ElDiablo]

hmmm....does anyone know why they lace in the back?:confused:lol

[PatriotGirl422]

And what do those Navy recruits going to do with a FIVE MINUTE phone call? What are they doing, telling their parents about the weather?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

We were told we would get a five minute phone call. In actuality it was closer to one minute.

[davblay]

Phone Call?

[davblay]

hmmm....does anyone know why they lace in the back?:confused:lol
So they don't have to unbutton those thirteen buttons in the front! ;)

"I'M SHIPPING OVER ------TO GET ME A CROW"!

"I DON'T CARE IF------THEY NEVER LET ME GO"!

[outlaw3179]

lol...."Right then I knew...this is going to be a tough six weeks." ...

[TheBiggness]

I wouldn't dog on the Navy to much. It's always good knowing those big guns they float on, got your back.

[Integrity57]

Their work uniform with that stupid little sailor hat is the one you'll hate!

I thought the work uniform was the light blue shirt and dark blue pants with the baseball hat? But I gotta say that the Navy's uniforms don't look as hideous as the Army's new camis do:sick: . And they let everyone wear a beret now, I mean what the hell? That was Special Forces most defining part of their uniforms and now everyones got one. Oh yeah the Air Force is now wearing trucker style hats, real professional looking:thumbup: .

[Marine84]

I thought the work uniform was the light blue shirt and dark blue pants with the baseball hat? But I gotta say that the Navy's uniforms don't look as hideous as the Army's new camis do:sick: . And they let everyone wear a beret now, I mean what the hell? That was Special Forces most defining part of their uniforms and now everyones got one. Oh yeah the Air Force is now wearing trucker style hats, real professional looking:thumbup: .

Could be a bottle cap for a hat now - do you really think them dungarees (dark blue pants) are going to fit you as good as a regular pair of jeans does - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I don't think so.

New AF hats? To match their bus driver uniforms.

[Integrity57]

Could be a bottle cap for a hat now - do you really think them dungarees (dark blue pants) are going to fit you as good as a regular pair of jeans does - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I don't think so.

New AF hats? To match their bus driver uniforms.

I didn't even think of that, but I plan on wearing a Marine Corps uniform so I'll worry about how good my ass looks in those dunagrees later lol;) . Yeah the Air Force has been wearing the trucker style hats for a few years now and boy do those hats look dumb with a pair of BDUs.

[rvillac2]

I think BUD/S deserves that attention from what I have seen and heard.


That's because you haven't seen sh!t, yet.

These guys get highly specialized training that is both very expensive and very hazardous. BUD/S is merely the most difficult and sh!ttiest job interview that anyone ever has to go through. The second purpose of the school is to instill the warrior into the sailor. These same traits are hammered into every Marine Recruit.

I'll always give our Navy brothers their props, but I'm sure several here will agree: Man for man, a squad of SEALs is no more operationally effective than a squad of seasoned Marine Infantry NCOs or Army Ranger NCOs.

I welcome this debate.

[Curt Geezus]

That's because you haven't seen sh!t, yet.

These guys get highly specialized training that is both very expensive and very hazardous. BUD/S is merely the most difficult and sh!ttiest job interview that anyone ever has to go through. The second purpose of the school is to instill the warrior into the sailor. These same traits are hammered into every Marine Recruit.


I think you'd agree that the bottom 10% of Marines are not on the same level as the bottom 10% of SEALs.


I'll always give our Navy brothers their props, but I'm sure several here will agree: Man for man, a squad of SEALs is no more operationally effective than a squad of seasoned Marine Infantry NCOs or Army Ranger NCOs.

I welcome this debate.

It doesn't seem fair to compare all SEALs to just the experienced Marines or Rangers, and of course, it is possible that all 3 are good at their job. Ranger School and Marine boot camp get just as much attention as BUD/S does. Rangers make a big deal out of RIP and Ranger School, and Marines make a big deal out of boot camp. So I don't see what the difference is, or why this is a problem.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I think you'd agree that the bottom 10% of Marines are not on the same level as the bottom 10% of SEALs.

You are correct. I've been around both. The bottom 10% of Marines are probably much better at what they do.




It doesn't seem fair to compare all SEALs to just the experienced Marines or Rangers, and of course, it is possible that all 3 are good at their job. Ranger School and Marine boot camp get just as much attention as BUD/S does. Rangers make a big deal out of RIP and Ranger School, and Marines make a big deal out of boot camp. So I don't see what the difference is, or why this is a problem.
The problem is because you're on a Marine site trying to talk about how great the Navy is. It doesn't work that way. If you think the Seals are so great, go be one. But don't expect us to do back flips over a bunch of over funded, over hyped, and under worked people that bounce balls on their nose for a living.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I wouldn't dog on the Navy to much. It's always good knowing those big guns they float on, got your back.

The big guns have been retired for the most part. Now they have missiles and planes that float in the water.

[Curt Geezus]

BUD/S isn't as difficult as they let on. The reason their success rate is so low is because they can ring the bell and leave. Honestly, if that bell was at MCRD there would be fewer Marines. Now, I am not saying boot camp is as difficult as BUD/S, because it isn't. But, the metal aspect of Marine Recruit Training is just as harsh.

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.


Sure, run about 5 miles, do about 30 pull-ups, and get about 200 crunches while your at it, but nothing can prepare most sailors the hardship, they never had it at Basic Training and when they hit BUD/S it finally hits them, a major culture shock and all they have to do is ring that bell. Like Cpl. said, its the mentality of MCRD.

Not only that, you have to take a sailor who dosen't have a warrior first background, some haven't even qualified with a rifle, some never shot one, some never put on a pack and move out for 10-12 miles. Plus you have to teach these sailors the basic and advance of infantry combat before they can move on to the special operations.


Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.


But now the SEALs are in the low areas of retention, no longer are people wanting to be SEALs, since Recon Indoc is open to almost any 03xx Marine and Ranger school has an option contract with ABN, Rangers and Marine Recon are bringing sexy back.


That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.

[Curt Geezus]

You are correct. I've been around both. The bottom 10% of Marines are probably much better at what they do.

I guess I will have to take your word for it since I don't know any SEALs, but I do know some Marines..and some of them are down right sh*ty. Which I think is mainly because they joined for the wrong reasons now they are stuck in a tough lifestyle.


The problem is because you're on a Marine site trying to talk about how great the Navy is. It doesn't work that way. If you think the Seals are so great, go be one. But don't expect us to do back flips over a bunch of over funded, over hyped, and under worked people that bounce balls on their nose for a living.

Rangers seem to be getting plenty of credit. I have a lot of respect for other units outside of the Marine Corps, and SEALs is one of them. I'm just saying, there is no need to bash someone just because they aren't a Marine.

[Marine84]

I'm just saying, there is no need to bash someone just because they aren't a Marine.

Get a GRIP - unruffle your feathers - honestly, it's all done in fun (for the biggest part) but you will NEVER convince ME or any of these other Marines in here that we should NOT bash another branch.

They'll swear that THEIR branches are the elite but, EVERYBODY that comes in here KNOWS that OURS is! What is the problem with THAT? Are some of us in here not PC enough for you? You can get over that issue too IF you have the balls to step through The front gate at MCRD AND come back through it with the Title AND an Eagle, Globe and Anchor. The poster wasn't lieing - we don't offer you a rose garden. :usmc: ;)

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Well said '84.

You can either pack the gear, or not. Your choice. But don't expect some sort of Koombaya club around here for those who DON'T have the title. Not gonna happen.

Either pull up your big girl panties and deal with it, or don't. Either way, don't presume to lecture Marines who've BTDT. That's an immediate 'call for fire' on your pos.

[HurricaneRJ]

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.
Yes all SOCOM units have a rigorous training regimne.
Why?

Simple, they need the best out of the field, if everyone could be a Ranger then it wouldn't be like the Rangers today. You want the ones who have the determination to endure pain and to stay motivated.

All the crap about SEALs saying "We want the guys who won't quit, that way we know they won't leave us behind."

Bull**** in my part, thats the ****ing way of living for every Soldier and every Marine. Warriors don't leave Warriors behind. Some SEAL candidates can't take the drilling because mentally they can, but physically they can't feel their muslces or more likely they pulled the SOB so hard that they can't continue. Defeats the purpose of trying get SEALs in.


Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.
In MCRD, Recruits are trained and mentored into a warrior spirit before they take on a grueling task at SOI.

At BUD/S you got Sailors who were probably cooks, admins, or a gunner on a ship. For one who dosen't have a warrior mentality and for the second part getting on a pair of cammies, a pack, and some boots and going humping is not a traditional sailor thing.

Here is a good example of Marine Recruits getting drilled with the warrior spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuctkYYywZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpnh946Xh3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_yXD5kE2Sk

Now were in Navy Basic Training where they are put through this???

Now for the sailors that do make it. ****ing Bravo the next 5 are on me.
For me personally I wanted to be the best, I wanted to join an elite organization, Army Rangers, AF PJs, Navy Seals, or the Marine Recon

All these were going in my head. Then I started to look at the history of these organization. All these are elite of their branch, but one is not better than the other.

PJ's can't do what SEALs do. Rangers can't do what PJ's do.

Now Marine Recon has evoled into some sort. I read an article of where the Recon are expandable and can complete mission ranging from Rangers and SEALs.

ANGLICO, MARSOC, FORCE RECON. All these were/are options into a special forces type enviroment. It just that MARSOC is under command of SOCOM, which means the Marines finally gets recognized as one the big boys.


That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.
Lets face it. SEALs are on the low ground right now, if they were so ever popular then they wouldn't be needed to retain SEALs. A recent article reported that the salty SEALs are leaving to join to become "Gun for Hire"

I work out at Gold's Gym in Columbus and I very close friends with Rangers who spent about 8-10 years as a Ranger and are getting out and getting paid some big ass cheese.:thumbup:

Now for civilians going in.

The Navy recruiting office is right down the street, I have been in there about 5 times, but I ask all the guys what will be there jobs and not one person said anything about becoming a SEAL. The Army is right behind a mall and I went up there and ask how many wanted to be a Ranger. ALL 13 guys raised their hand.

Now for the Marines poolies we have, we have about only 8 of us going Infantry but we all want to be Recon, either sooner or later. Not to mention the Infantry is bringing MOS is picking up. ITB is backed up with so many Marine boots who have an 03xx slot.

You never know, what could happen but the SEALs are struggling. They're damn good warriors but no one is the better at offering skilled and trained warrios than the UNITED STATES MARINE CORP!. :flag:

[HurricaneRJ]

Definitely true, but that is the same with all the SOF schools to the best of my knowledge.
Yes all SOCOM units have a rigorous training regimne.
Why?

Simple, they need the best out of the field, if everyone could be a Ranger then it wouldn't be like the Rangers today. You want the ones who have the determination to endure pain and to stay motivated.

All the crap about SEALs saying "We want the guys who won't quit, that way we know they won't leave us behind."

Bull**** in my part, thats the ****ing way of living for every Soldier and every Marine. Warriors don't leave Warriors behind. Some SEAL candidates can't take the drilling because mentally they can, but physically they can't feel their muslces or more likely they pulled the SOB so hard that they can't continue. Defeats the purpose of trying get SEALs in.


Keep in mind civilians going into boot camp have never done these things either.
In MCRD, Recruits are trained and mentored into a warrior spirit before they take on a grueling task at SOI.

At BUD/S you got Sailors who were probably cooks, admins, or a gunner on a ship. For one who dosen't have a warrior mentality and for the second part getting on a pair of cammies, a pack, and some boots and going humping is not a traditional sailor thing.

Here is a good example of Marine Recruits getting drilled with the warrior spirit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuctkYYywZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpnh946Xh3k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_yXD5kE2Sk

Now were in Navy Basic Training where they are put through this???

Now for the sailors that do make it. ****ing Bravo the next 5 are on me.
For me personally I wanted to be the best, I wanted to join an elite organization, Army Rangers, AF PJs, Navy Seals, or the Marine Recon

All these were going in my head. Then I started to look at the history of these organization. All these are elite of their branch, but one is not better than the other.

PJ's can't do what SEALs do. Rangers can't do what PJ's do.

Now Marine Recon has evoled into some sort. I read an article of where the Recon are expandable and can complete mission ranging from Rangers and SEALs.

ANGLICO, MARSOC, FORCE RECON. All these were/are options into a special forces type enviroment. It just that MARSOC is under command of SOCOM, which means the Marines finally gets recognized as one the big boys.


That is completely false. SEALs are just as popular as ever now that the Navy has named that one of their top priorities. I don't know much about Rangers but I thought they were always popular. And I would agree that Recon is growing in popularity.
Lets face it. SEALs are on the low ground right now, if they were so ever popular then they wouldn't be needed to retain SEALs. A recent article reported that the salty SEALs are leaving to join to become "Gun for Hire"

I work out at Gold's Gym in Columbus and I very close friends with Rangers who spent about 8-10 years as a Ranger and are getting out and getting paid some big ass cheese.:thumbup:

Now for civilians going in.

The Navy recruiting office is right down the street, I have been in there about 5 times, but I ask all the guys what will be there jobs and not one person said anything about becoming a SEAL. The Army is right behind a mall and I went up there and ask how many wanted to be a Ranger. ALL 13 guys raised their hand.

Now for the Marines poolies we have, we have about only 8 of us going Infantry but we all want to be Recon, either sooner or later. Not to mention the Infantry is bringing MOS is picking up. ITB is backed up with so many Marine boots who have an 03xx slot.

You never know, what could happen but the SEALs are struggling. They're damn good warriors but no one is the better at providing skilled and trained warriors than the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS. :flag:

Damn, just got motivated off those videos. I'm of on a run in the middle of the night.

[rvillac2]

I think you'd agree that the bottom 10% of Marines are not on the same level as the bottom 10% of SEALs.

Honestly, Curt, you talk like a critical thinker and most likely pack the gear to be in our Corps. However, I want to comment on this quote.

You're comparing a group of several hundred SEALS to more than 150,000 Marines. Of course the bottom 10% of an elite group will be better than the bottom 10% of our larger Corps. Unfortunately, we can't weed out all the sh!tbirds in bootcamp. The politicians saw to that.

However, take ALL of the SEALS and match them up man for man against the SAME number of Infantry Marine NCOs and I'll bet that we'll be better in most dimensions. Physical fitness, marksmanship, fieldcraft, and military discipline are just a few to name.

Since I do statistics for a living, I just wanted to correct your logic (and back up my Grunt bretheren at the same time).

Once again to my fellow brothers and sister that posted on this thread...AMEN and OOHRAH!

[Integrity57]

Just to throw this out there, I do believe I read an article on this very site, that said there were currently 2,300 active duty SEALs. And why are ya'll comparing the SEALs to the Rangers anyway? Both Skillets and E4B made it abundantly clear in another thread that the Rangers are not a Special Forces unit, and how come no one has even mentioned Army Special Forces anyways?

[Motorola07]

Probably because not many people know about it maybe?

[HurricaneRJ]

Just to throw this out there, I do believe I read an article on this very site, that said there were currently 2,300 active duty SEALs. And why are ya'll comparing the SEALs to the Rangers anyway? Both Skillets and E4B made it abundantly clear in another thread that the Rangers are not a Special Forces unit, and how come no one has even mentioned Army Special Forces anyways?

Army Rangers fall under SOCOM (There for meaning special forces.)

Basically, Army Rangers are a light-infantry force that gets to SOCOM jobs.

Green Berets?! I never seen one in Ft. Benning in my life.

Theres a bunch of special forces guys here, you see them with their ACU's on and they have the Airborne Special Forces patch on the left arm and the right arm is left blank.

Mostly are assigned to a special taskforce from what they tell me.

[Integrity57]

"Probably because not many people know about it maybe?"

That's kind of surprising, I thought they were more well known. I'm pretty familiar with them, but that's because I've researched them I guess. Did you know that their training is two years long? And that's after the whole Indoc process I believe.

[HurricaneRJ]

Well best bet is look up on what type of action the Army Special Forces unit have done.

Mostly during the Operation Enduring Freedom, they're were numerous small. Army and AF special forces team, as well as Recon and SEALs in the act as well.

You won't hear much about the Army's special forces, because all of them stem from the Rangers. If you can get Rangers, then you got your supply needed to make Green Berets (Or whatever they call themselves now.)

[Integrity57]

Army Rangers fall under SOCOM (There for meaning special forces.)

Basically, Army Rangers are a light-infantry force that gets to SOCOM jobs.

Green Berets?! I never seen one in Ft. Benning in my life.

Theres a bunch of special forces guys here, you see them with their ACU's on and they have the Airborne Special Forces patch on the left arm and the right arm is left blank.

Mostly are assigned to a special taskforce from what they tell me.

I've met two former Special Forces operators, granted they are both retired, but none the less.Here ya go, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Army_Special_Forces
scroll down a bit, it says there's no SF Unit stationed in Georgia

[Integrity57]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/SFsoldierAfghanistan.jpg/800px-SFsoldierAfghanistan.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/SFsoldierAfghanistan.jpg)

Thought this was a great pic, Special Forces Operator in Afghanistan.

[HurricaneRJ]

Integrity.

Let me share some inportant information to you.

EVERY SPECIAL FORCES PERSONELL COME THROUGH FT. BENNING.

Marines, SEALs, PJ are all here. They complete Airborne School and some Marines even attend Ranger School.

They're not specifc unit out here, but they are here. If you catch the time, I can personally show you. Hell they have the damn armpatch on their uniform signafiying that they're special forces.

Like I said, how many Green Berets were Rangers??? All of them, thats just the minimum to be an Army Special Forces.

[HurricaneRJ]

5th Special Forces Group Is in the process of moving down to Ft. Benning. So is the 101st ABN division.

[Integrity57]

Relax RJ, who's saying they don't go to school there? I was just saying that they're not stationed there. I know what the patches look like so I don't need to be shown, I've seen one in real life. And yes, I've been told that SF operators are Rangers before they make it to SF.

[rvillac2]

I didn't make that comparison to "Special" **cough** "Ed" Forces because there ain't nothing "special" about the SEALs.
Yeah, I said it!
They are just the Navy's shooters.
I'm arguing that our best Marine shooters, arguably the grunts, and the Army's equivalent match up in every way to the so-called "elite" SEALs.

Remember that "Special" forces concentrate on covert operations involving the training of friendly forces or the spawning of insurgencies.

If we talk about Special Ops, meaning low intensity warfare or the rescue of friendly assets in hostile areas, we can include our very own grunts who attach to a MEU(SOC).

The ONLY differences between the units that I'm comparing are the training. Specifically, the variety of training. Less SEALS, more training budget per SEAL. Take that same group of Marine NCO's, give them the same training, and they'll match up shot for shot.

Ok, I'm gonna end my long winded replies. Just know this poolies. Once you see the rigors of our training and the sheer terror that a motivated squad of Marines can generate, you won't be so ga-ga over the other high speed units.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

The Rangers fall under USSOCOM, but they are not special forces. They are the light infantry component of USSOCOM. They can pretend they are high speed, low drag operators all thy want, but that doesn't make it so. The only capability they have than any Marine infantry unit can't match is to insert by parachute. If that makes them special in your eyes, then that's fine.

Clearly rvillac and I disagree... but I would take the bottom 10% of Marines over the bottom 10% of SEALS. They have the same problems- lack of motivtion, no desire to meet the demands of the job, etc. But, at least in my mind, Marines don't seem to fall as far. Sure, the bottom 1% of Marines is horrible. I've never seen a SEAL like that, but I assume they're there as well. The 9% above that are people that will be there doing what they do, just not doing it as well as they should.

Not that it matters much. My question isn't about the bottom 10%, but the top 10%. And maybe I am biased, but I'll take FORCE, MARSOC, FAST, etc over a ball bouncer any time you offer me the option.

[davblay]

"I WANT TO BE A RECON RANGER---I WANT TO LIVE A LIFE OF DANGER"

Ooo-Rah, E4B and Semper Fi.

[CBRN5711Tech]

So what is RECON training like anyway?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

It depends on the mission at hand. But, they are trained in many of the same things as any of the USSOCOM units are trained in. Of course, their primary function is to perform recon for the particular MAGTF commander, so they spend extra time making sure they're really good at that.

This is something that I would almost promise would give you several threads if you did a search.

[Doc Palmer]

I love the Marine Corps but speaking as a a Navy Corpsman with a Fleet Marine Force specialty I wouldnt be too hard on the Navy considering there are Navy Corpsman that go eveywhere Marines go just to try and make sure those same Marines make it home to their families. There are also a lot of Navy Corpsman assigned to Marine units that do everything their Marines do.

[Doc Palmer]

I only know this because I am one of them

[HurricaneRJ]

Well Doc, Navy Corpsman got it made.

They can be

SEALs
Force Recon
ANGLICO
Scout Sniper
FAST
MARSOC.

They got plenty of options.

[Doc Palmer]

Navy Corpsman do have a lot of choices but when it comes down to it I dont care what type of Marine unit I'm with as long as it's a Marine unit. I would rather do 30 years as a Navy Corpsman with Marine units than to ever take a billet with a Navy unit. I have had the opportunity to do both and it's definately better for a motivated Navy Corpsman to be with the Marine side

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Doc, you know as well as I do that green-side Corpsman aren't Navy any more than they are 3 year old girls. They are the one group of people that are Marines without ever going to boot camp or OCS to earn the title. A Corpsman wearing a Navy uniform wouldn't be allowed anywhere near me if I could find one in cammies somewhere.

Hurricane, you do understand that the vast majority of people will never be in any of those units. In fact, most don't even want to try. You seem a little overly fixated on that type of thing to me.

[ItzAlex]

Theres even one for the army too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv84yS_RaQM

[TheBiggness]

Yeah special forces train different because they do different types of missions. But I want infantry because thats how the heavy fighting is done.

[Curt Geezus]

Honestly, Curt, you talk like a critical thinker and most likely pack the gear to be in our Corps. However, I want to comment on this quote.

You're comparing a group of several hundred SEALS to more than 150,000 Marines. Of course the bottom 10% of an elite group will be better than the bottom 10% of our larger Corps. Unfortunately, we can't weed out all the sh!tbirds in bootcamp. The politicians saw to that.

However, take ALL of the SEALS and match them up man for man against the SAME number of Infantry Marine NCOs and I'll bet that we'll be better in most dimensions. Physical fitness, marksmanship, fieldcraft, and military discipline are just a few to name.

Since I do statistics for a living, I just wanted to correct your logic (and back up my Grunt bretheren at the same time).

Once again to my fellow brothers and sister that posted on this thread...AMEN and OOHRAH!

I'll take your word for it since I am not in yet.

[Curt Geezus]

All the crap about SEALs saying "We want the guys who won't quit, that way we know they won't leave us behind."

Bull**** in my part, thats the ****ing way of living for every Soldier and every Marine. Warriors don't leave Warriors behind. Some SEAL candidates can't take the drilling because mentally they can, but physically they can't feel their muslces or more likely they pulled the SOB so hard that they can't continue. Defeats the purpose of trying get SEALs in.
You can quit in any of the SOF schools, this is not just a SEAL thing.


In MCRD, Recruits are trained and mentored into a warrior spirit before they take on a grueling task at SOI.

At BUD/S you got Sailors who were probably cooks, admins, or a gunner on a ship. For one who dosen't have a warrior mentality and for the second part getting on a pair of cammies, a pack, and some boots and going humping is not a traditional sailor thing.

Here is a good example of Marine Recruits getting drilled with the warrior spirit.
I still don't see what you're saying. And I personally have never heard of any cooks or admin guys becoming SEALs either.

[HurricaneRJ]

My Cousin's boyfriend was an admin on a ship. He handled paperwork for a Carrier Aircraft Group. One day there was a sign-up for BUD/S. He put his name on the paper and went. He quit the during Hell Week but you get the picture.

What other job in the Navy actually relates to being a SEAL??

With any Army Special Forces training or Marine Corps Recon INDOC its different, you have to have an infantry background. SEAL candidates don't have a infantry background.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Hurricane, you don't have to be infantry to be a Recon guy. I know one person that worked on air frames that took the indoc and became Ricky Recon. Most of them come from infantry or combat arms jobs, but not all of them.

But, the special boat crews relate to being a SEAL. Being a FMF Corpsman would relate well to being a SEAL.

All that said, you make a good point. But, that is part of why there is so much training before they are full SEALs. After BUD/S and the training pipeline they still have a six month probationary period before they earn the trident.

[HurricaneRJ]

Hurricane, you don't have to be infantry to be a Recon guy. I know one person that worked on air frames that took the indoc and became Ricky Recon. Most of them come from infantry or combat arms jobs, but not all of them.

But, the special boat crews relate to being a SEAL. Being a FMF Corpsman would relate well to being a SEAL.

All that said, you make a good point. But, that is part of why there is so much training before they are full SEALs. After BUD/S and the training pipeline they still have a six month probationary period before they earn the trident.
I stand correct Cpl. I was told that you had to have an 03xx background for Recon.

Now that you mentioned it, is there still radio recon teams?? A rare breed if i ever heard of one.

http://www.specialoperations.com/USMC/default.html

[RuffNight2007]

Hurricane, you don't have to be infantry to be a Recon guy. I know one person that worked on air frames that took the indoc and became Ricky Recon. Most of them come from infantry or combat arms jobs, but not all of them.

What happens to a Marine who fails out of the Recon indoc if he has a non-infantry mos? I heard someone say he goes to ITB? This to me doesn't seem likely due to the fact the Corps already spent money on the training for whatever your first MOS was.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

People fail the recon indoc all the time. They just go back to work like nothing happened. If you don't start out as an 03 the only ways to become one are to go to the reserves when you get out or make it to recon. They don't want someone that has been turning wrenches to become an infantry NCO. That is a skill set that you're not going to get from class- it takes time.

I don't know if radio recon is still there or not. I would assume it is, but I haven't heard anyone talk about it and I haven't paid attention. I'll see what I can find about it tomorrow.

[Curt Geezus]

My Cousin's boyfriend was an admin on a ship. He handled paperwork for a Carrier Aircraft Group. One day there was a sign-up for BUD/S. He put his name on the paper and went. He quit the during Hell Week but you get the picture.

What other job in the Navy actually relates to being a SEAL??

With any Army Special Forces training or Marine Corps Recon INDOC its different, you have to have an infantry background. SEAL candidates don't have a infantry background.
I'm not a Navy expert but the seabees, EOD, SWCC or something along those lines comes to mind. It's not infantry, but its a lot different than admin. And I know for a fact that you do not have to have an infantry background to go Special Forces in the Army. But I'll stop now, we all know SEALs don't become warriors in boot camp, which I guess is what you are trying to say.


After BUD/S and the training pipeline they still have a six month probationary period before they earn the trident.


I don't think they do that any more. Now they get it at SQT graduation.

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

It looks like the Navy did change things, but they made the probation longer. My research says it is now a workup period and six month deployment before the new SEALs get their trident. You are correct that they are considered SEALs at the end of SQT, but they don't get their trident then.


After BUD/S, students must then attend Military Free Fall school for one week of static line parachute training and three weeks of freefall parachute training, conducted at Tactical Air Operations(TACAIROPS) school in Otay, outside of San Diego. Until 2003, the Army trained Navy Special Warfare teams to freefall. The new school allows more SEALs and Special Warfare Combatant Crewmen (SWCC) to become free-fall and HALO (High Altitude Low Opening) qualified than ever before. Finally, the last requirement before going to a team requires students to go through SEAL Qualification Training, or SQT, which is a 15-week course of advanced training which builds on the skills developed during BUD/S. After completion of SQT training, students are put on a probationary period with a team.

Upon assignment to a team, the new SEALs will be assigned to a Platoon as an Operator. Once in a Task Unit/Platoon, the Operator will train for an 18-month period (work-up) before a six month active deployment which is followed by six month 'stand down' period. After this has been completed, they are officially considered SEALs and are awarded the SEAL pin, or Trident.

[Quinbo]

People fail the recon indoc all the time. They just go back to work like nothing happened. If you don't start out as an 03 the only ways to become one are to go to the reserves when you get out or make it to recon. They don't want someone that has been turning wrenches to become an infantry NCO. That is a skill set that you're not going to get from class- it takes time.

I don't know if radio recon is still there or not. I would assume it is, but I haven't heard anyone talk about it and I haven't paid attention. I'll see what I can find about it tomorrow.

To my knowlege Anglico still exists.

[M-16GunnySgt]

They say the younger generation goes for the more elite but who says the younger generation can handle it they go in saying they want to kill then they get in and they drop out half way through the week because its to hard

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

ANGLICO exists again. It went away (except for the reserve ANGLICO unit) but then made a comeback. But, that is not the same as Radio Recon. Here is the wikipedia page about Radio Recon. According to it, they are a part of USSOCOM now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Reconnaissance_Platoon

[HurricaneRJ]

Cpl. E4B.

What MOS are slated to take the RRIP?

[MGySgtSki]

ANGLICO exists again. It went away (except for the reserve ANGLICO unit) but then made a comeback. But, that is not the same as Radio Recon. Here is the wikipedia page about Radio Recon. According to it, they are a part of USSOCOM now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Reconnaissance_Platoon

Correct about ANGLICO existing again, E4B, but Radio Recon is not part of SOCOM now. The Marine Corps Special Operations Command, Detachment One was disbanded as MARSOC stood up. There are two Radio Reconnaissance Platoons (one at 1st Radio Bn in Camp Pendleton and one at 2nd Radio Bn in Camp Lejeune - where I'm currently stationed) and they provide mainly Radio Recon teams for MEU (SOC)s and other requirements. Radio Recon runs its own indoc, separate from the recon indoc, but does send Marines to some of the same training that your conventional recon Marines attend (ARS/BRC, jump, sere, etc). It's a really small community as you must be a 26xx MOS (SIGINT Marine).

S/F

[HurricaneRJ]

Thanks MSgt.

[Curt Geezus]

Theres even one for the army too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv84yS_RaQM

Sorry to bring up an old thread..but did you happen to notice who posted that video on youtube?

[HurricaneRJ]

According to the profile, it says he's 52.?? Coinencidence?????

[Quinbo]

Navy Corpsman do have a lot of choices but when it comes down to it I dont care what type of Marine unit I'm with as long as it's a Marine unit. I would rather do 30 years as a Navy Corpsman with Marine units than to ever take a billet with a Navy unit. I have had the opportunity to do both and it's definately better for a motivated Navy Corpsman to be with the Marine side

Marines need corpsman! Some FMF corpsman just don't cut the mustard. I and my 1st Sgt had a long talk after I fired the 3rd in 3 months. We got a stud after that ... sent him to advanced Red Cross life saving school, bought him a beer on liberty and didn't mind splitting a C rat cracker. He was as far as I'm concerned the exception as far as corpsman attached to infantry units go. Hold up take a knee ..... we got to wait for doc to catch up. I'm sure you've never fired that pistol doc but at least try to get some of the rust off of it. I had a corpsman once tell me that he was here to save my life, not dig a freaking fighting hole. I said whose gonna save my life if you don't.