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Wyoming
04-30-06, 05:30 PM
.

I might be losing me mind, but I'm sure I replied to a question today from a poolee writing that his recruiter said he could sign up for a Crew Chief MOS. Maybe so, today, but that isn’t how it used to work.

Going in, I was guaranteed an Aviation MOS. That was all.

I was a 6211, I believe, which was Helicopter, Reciprocal, Mechanic.

Anyway, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that being a Crew Chief came with time served as a mech. I'm not sure, but quite possibly some tin-benders, twigets and grease rags went on to be Crew Chiefs. If not, they were all fine gunners.


As it was, in 34's and 46's, there was a PIC and SIC, along with a Gunner, who rotated, as did the Pilots. The Helicopter was deemed the property of the Crew Chief, and he flew it on every mission.

The pilots were in command while in the air, BUT, when on the ground, the 'authority' turned to the Crew Chief.


If you get a chance, google Mike Clausen, the only Marine Crew Chief in Viet Nam to receive the CMOH. Read his citation. Mike did his thing while the pilots sat, and only then did the helicopter take off.

JimmyK
05-01-06, 12:08 AM
The recruiter can guarantee you a AG contract which is Enlisted Aircrew, all the jobs in that contract are crew chiefs and the C-130 loadmaster. If you get that contract you go to Aircrew school after MCT then to mech school then to a squadron to qualify. If a mech wants the be a crew chief they have to do a lat move as it is now considered a totally different job. I originally had a mechanic contract becasue I thought you had to be a mechanic first in order to be a crew chief. Thankfully I found out that it has changed or else I would have been stuck doing something I dont like.

Wyoming
05-01-06, 07:34 AM
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OK JimmyK, OR SOMEBODY, tell me about Crew Chiefs for Helicopters.

.

LoCapitano
05-01-06, 08:01 PM
I wanted to be an MP but there were no more spots, My second choice was AG, Just signed the contract today...

Basically the Program code is AG, and program discription says "Aircrew/Flight Mechanic/ Navigator".... "6100-Aviation Maintenance rotary wing, 6200-Aircraft maintenance Fixed wing, 7300-Enlisted Flight crews"

My recruiter says that CrewChief falls under 6100

You also have to get atleast a CW2 in boot...

I go to PI in 3 weeks and even got a cool Bonus...

Wyoming
05-02-06, 07:45 AM
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Couto, good stuff - hang in there. Oh yeah, I got the PI thingy, but what is second choice was AG & at least a CW2 in boot?

Still looking for some Helicopter Crew Chief types to explain how it's done today.

.

Parker-0321
05-02-06, 08:43 AM
I think this goes along with me in a way, from what I understand Recon wasn't something you could sign up for untill just recently. It was offered if you qualified for it. Now I think they're just offering it if you qualify for it now. I mean like what your ASVAB score was, police record, stuff like that, and if you don't qualify during Recruit Training you get something else along the lines of the needs of the Corps. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong..




I go to PI in 3 weeks and even got a cool Bonus...


What is this bonus you speak of? Is it like a bonus for the MOS or a signing bonus?

LoCapitano
05-02-06, 09:32 AM
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Couto, good stuff - hang in there. Oh yeah, I got the PI thingy, but what is second choice was AG & at least a CW2 in boot?

Still looking for some Helicopter Crew Chief types to explain how it's done today.

.

My second choice as in I would rather do another job but they had no openings....

And CW2 is the water survival, You have to qualify for 2nd class

Tallboot
05-02-06, 09:49 AM
I think this goes along with me in a way, from what I understand Recon wasn't something you could sign up for untill just recently. It was offered if you qualified for it. Now I think they're just offering it if you qualify for it now. I mean like what your ASVAB score was, police record, stuff like that, and if you don't qualify during Recruit Training you get something else along the lines of the needs of the Corps. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong..




What is this bonus you speak of? Is it like a bonus for the MOS or a signing bonus?

What your talking about is Recon, its signed up as a 03 MOS, ... Entirely different thing then Force Recon .. which is basically the Hardest Part of the Marine corps and nearly all of them are Disqualified for that before even starting training for it, its that hard.

crossram
05-02-06, 09:59 AM
Big Al....I think you're right on. You still have to have time in MOS to qualify for AC. I think some recruiter is blowing smoke at these poolees. No way is some turd from MechFund school gonna hop in the third seat without spinnin' a few wrenches. Semper Fi.........Bill

Wyoming
05-02-06, 10:29 AM
Big Al....I think you're right on. You still have to have time in MOS to qualify for AC. I think some recruiter is blowing smoke at these poolees. No way is some turd from MechFund school gonna hop in the third seat without spinnin' a few wrenches. Semper Fi.........Bill

Bill - - I agree, and was just wondering, as I understand that there is now an MOS for Crew Chief.

I also can't see how you could jump to 3rd seat so quickly, since pretty basically, the aircraft, CH-46 in my case, was pretty much given to you.

Wyoming
05-02-06, 12:42 PM
.

... and for those of you who are unlearned of the Helicopter and it's history in Viet Nam - goto - http://www.popasmoke.com/chronology.html

I'm not pushing the site off on anyone, but it's got the history of the helicopter, all done by folks who were there.

.

Mastergunz G
05-02-06, 01:34 PM
To settle this, yes, you can sign up for a crew chief MOS and get that after finishing MCT. The CH53D/E crew chief school is at HMT 302 in New River. These Marines graduate as a full fledged crew chief and start flying as soon as they report to their squadron. If I am not mistaken, you can't have "homegrown" C/C's anymore. I know that they did away with that program for a while but were thinking of bringing it back. Squadrons were having problems with school trained C/C's, as it required additional maintenance Marines to go on cross country flights, since the C/C have virtually no maintenance experience. I knew several of the Marines who were instructors at the school and they were giving "additional" training on fixing gripes. I know that at 302 we would get some of the new grads and they caught hell, since the school was also a part of the squadron and the "old timer's" would give the instructors a good ole fashioned a$$ chewing if one of the Marines was lacking in skills that all of us old Marines knew that a C/C should possess. And I hope that you know, Big Al, that we also have female C/C's now. And for the most part, they usually turn out to be top tier!

Wyoming
05-02-06, 02:34 PM
.

Thanks for clearing this one up.

Yep, I heard that there were WM's as Crew Chief's.

I wonder if there are any on this site?

Thanks again.

.

crossram
05-02-06, 10:46 PM
Thanks for the sitrep Gunner........I'm now a believer. Semper Fi

LoCapitano
05-04-06, 07:57 PM
We have the Mc Donalds Air and sea show this weekend, So for fleet week all the poolees went to the airport where the military aircrafts are to swear in...

I got to sit in a huey, and a Cobra as well as talk to just about Every Marine Crew Chief there... I cant wait to go to my MOS school

crossram
05-04-06, 11:22 PM
Good luck Couto ! Keep yer head down.

LoCapitano
05-05-06, 12:15 AM
Thank you very much!

Osotogary
05-05-06, 12:21 PM
Mike,
Good luck to you.
I see, by your profile, that you are right up the road from my digs (Miramar). Keeping your head down is excellent advice. I wish you well and may your journey be as fulfilling as you envision it to be.
Take care.
Gary

dillonjs
05-12-06, 08:03 PM
Just to add my input also. I was an Avionics guy on 46's. Like the top said. It is an MOS you can sign up for now, but if you can't pass the swim quals etc. then you have to fall back on just the Mech MOS. An avi, airframs, and we had a chaplain become aerial observers. The marine's and navy chaplain went through all of the quals to earn there air crew wings. They fire the 50 cal and everything. They still keep there regular MOS, but when they become air crew qualed. It will give your squadron more men/woman to use as air crew. Since at times you can really start to run out of them, When over half of your aircraft are flying that day and night, and air crew are only allowed to have no more than 12 hr days (only the CO can grant an hour extension on that 12).

ja98
05-12-06, 11:41 PM
I have a question I think I didnt qualify for this mos because my gt was 105 and you need a 110 to get it in your contract. If I sign as a aviation mech. can I at a later time transfer to this mos without retaking my asvab?

DealConrad
10-24-06, 03:11 PM
I was the first female crew chief on Hueys, 6174. Graduated crew chief school in Sept, 1996. I went in gauranteed Aviation Support in 1995, at my A school was given the opportunity to qualify for AirCrew School... didn't know that I was the first. Passed my quals and went to Pensacola. Went to Crew Chief school at HMT 303, Camp Pendleton. There were 3 females in my class. One became pregnant, one was recycled, and I graduated honor grad. I was stationed with HMLA 169. The WM who was recycled followed me there 6 weeks later after repeating the class. I had a double whammy... schooled CC with no mechanic experience and the first female in flightline. Needless to say I was not well received. I survived 3 years and got out. The other stayed in and went on to become a crew chief instructor then went back to 169 where she served in Iraq. She died in a routine NVG training hop 2 months after returning to Camp Pendleton. I hear there are many of us out there, now.

To answer your question... yes, you can sign up to be a cc without time as a mechanic. When I got out in 1999, they still were creating homegrowns, but not many as crew chief is it's own MOS and the slots are filled mostly by those coming from the school.

LoCapitano
10-24-06, 05:49 PM
Hows it going DealConrad...Thank you for the reply but i'm actually in Pensacola right now at Aircrew School...

I get my platform assigned to me in 2 weeks, Hoping for either 53's or C130's....

ggyoung
10-24-06, 06:46 PM
There is nothing lik OJT. You learn early on what to do. I was OJT on heavy mortars ( 4.2in , 107MM). Later on we started getting kids trained at FT. Seal, Ok. (sp) they knew the book and that was all.

crossram
10-24-06, 07:09 PM
Outstanding DealConrad !! Congrats on your accomplishments. You have updated this ole Marine and I hearby stand corrected. Thanks for your service and continued good health. Semper Fi........

Echo5November
10-24-06, 07:25 PM
PooleeCouto, if you are still a poolee, is there a good reason why you have a pfc chevron for your avatar? You need to correct yourself because you aren't a Marine yet. It better be a baldheadad kid in the pushup position in its place next time you reply to a post.

Echo5November
10-24-06, 07:26 PM
as you were, I saw your profile. You need to fix your screen name devil. you really wanna be known as poolee when you're a Marine???

LoCapitano
10-25-06, 08:34 PM
as you were, I saw your profile. You need to fix your screen name devil. you really wanna be known as poolee when you're a Marine???

Absolutely not...

I have tryed to open a new account here but it wont allow it... I have also pmed and emailed the forum admins... just waiting on a responce...

jinelson
10-25-06, 09:36 PM
Pfc Couto welcome back Marine. I have requested upgrade to Marine for you. I expected to hear from you some time back were you hiding from me bro? lmao ;) Please contact Shaffer by PM to see if your user name can be changed.

Semper Fi

Jim

LoCapitano
10-26-06, 09:14 PM
Pfc Couto welcome back Marine. I have requested upgrade to Marine for you. I expected to hear from you some time back were you hiding from me bro? lmao ;) Please contact Shaffer by PM to see if your user name can be changed.

Semper Fi

Jim

Howdy....

PFC Couto Here....

thank you guys so much for the help... Sorry i never replyed to you, But when i first wrote i was on Boot Leave... and went to MCT right after that...

ProudUSMCPop
12-19-06, 03:50 PM
I'm not sure that I would really qualify to "tell" anyone here anything but I will relate the way it went for my son who is a brand new “boot” CH-46 crew chief, awaiting orders to his first squadron.

The first thing that needs to be determined is “what” you qualify for. This will be determined by a combination of your education prior to enlistment and your ASVAB scores.

When my son enlisted he was told there were 2 aviation "slots" available from this area.
Looking over his form 1130-003, Enlistment Incentive Programs Statement of Understanding, the “Program Code” is AG. The Program Description is Air Crew / Flight Mechanic / Navigator. The MOS options are 6100 / 6200 / 7300. If after processing through MEPS, you still qualify for your agreed upon program, it’s off to MCRD you go. After basic training, and if you still qualify, you go to MCT. Upon completion of MCT if you still have no changes to your MOS, then you will most likely be sent to NAS Pensacola and assigned to MATSG to await assignment to a school. If you have qualified for air crew, your first school will be NACCS. Upon successful completion of NACCS, you will find out which platforms have slots open and be assigned accordingly. If you get a air crew slot, you will next go to SERE school. Upon successful completion of SERE, you move through the A and C schools for your bird.

Anywhere along the line if you either fail a qualification or otherwise disqualify yourself, you will be assigned per the (famous) “needs of the Corps“. In most likelihood, if you do not stay in the air crew program, you will most likely go to an aviation maintenance MOS.

That’s the way it went for one young Marine. However the best thing you can count on is that “nothing in the US Marines is ever a 100% guarantee”. A whole lot depends on YOU. IMHO just becoming a Marine is an accomplishment not everyone can do, but any one who makes it can be proud of.
Best of luck.

Semper Fi

Ham

LoCapitano
12-19-06, 05:15 PM
I'm not sure that I would really qualify to "tell" anyone here anything but I will relate the way it went for my son who is a brand new “boot” CH-46 crew chief, awaiting orders to his first squadron.

The first thing that needs to be determined is “what” you qualify for. This will be determined by a combination of your education prior to enlistment and your ASVAB scores.

When my son enlisted he was told there were 2 aviation "slots" available from this area.
Looking over his form 1130-003, Enlistment Incentive Programs Statement of Understanding, the “Program Code” is AG. The Program Description is Air Crew / Flight Mechanic / Navigator. The MOS options are 6100 / 6200 / 7300. If after processing through MEPS, you still qualify for your agreed upon program, it’s off to MCRD you go. After basic training, and if you still qualify, you go to MCT. Upon completion of MCT if you still have no changes to your MOS, then you will most likely be sent to NAS Pensacola and assigned to MATSG to await assignment to a school. If you have qualified for air crew, your first school will be NACCS. Upon successful completion of NACCS, you will find out which platforms have slots open and be assigned accordingly. If you get a air crew slot, you will next go to SERE school. Upon successful completion of SERE, you move through the A and C schools for your bird.

Anywhere along the line if you either fail a qualification or otherwise disqualify yourself, you will be assigned per the (famous) “needs of the Corps“. In most likelihood, if you do not stay in the air crew program, you will most likely go to an aviation maintenance MOS.

That’s the way it went for one young Marine. However the best thing you can count on is that “nothing in the US Marines is ever a 100% guarantee”. A whole lot depends on YOU. IMHO just becoming a Marine is an accomplishment not everyone can do, but any one who makes it can be proud of.
Best of luck.

Semper Fi

Ham

Thats exactly right... I have actually just Graduated NACCS (Naval Air Crew Candidate school)

and have been assigned a slot for the MV-22 tilt rotor helicopter...

awaiting for my SERE class to open up.. in February...

Also Aircrew is a DOR MOS...(Drop on request.) which means that at any point and time you can quit and they will assign you a new mos...

As for the slots I have heard that they have 67 Huey, and 40 or so slots open the 46 this year... which i am actually going to be trying to switch over to hueys...

ProudUSMCPop
12-19-06, 11:32 PM
Congratulations!
Brunswick in February......SERE school.....Your gonna have fun !
My son was there last Feb. Leave it to say it was the first time in his life he had ever seen snow.
Good luck & Merry Christmas!

Semper Fi

Ham

onux16
07-25-07, 09:55 PM
I'm currently training at HMM(T)-164 to be a CH-46E crew chief. I have some information for the old timers and poolees alike.

The training you go through is as follows: boot camp; MCT; Naval Aircrew Candidate School in Pensacola, FL; and SERE in Brunswick, ME (or North Island, CA for C-130's).

After SERE, the following platforms go to their respective Mech school followed by Flight school. Only the 46's go to a different locale for flight school.
UH-1: MCAS Camp Pendleton
MV-22 and CH-53: New River, NC
CH-46: New River, NC; then MCAS Camp Pendleton

I do not have information for the C-130 platform except the candidate goes to SERE after the mechanic/loadmaster course.

You need Swim Qual 2 in boot camp to qualify as a 9972 - Aircrew Trainee; supposedly in MCT, you'll have one final chance to earn 2nd class before you receive your orders for your next school.

Pensacola's NACCS program is to prepare and qualify you for water survival. When I was there, the PT was very intense, but because of the numerous injuries candidates were facing, the intensity was dumbed down a bit. Towards the end of training, candidates are subjected to numerous simulations, most notably, the Helo Dunker, which is a night and day simulation of a helicopter crashing into open water and you must properly egress/escape. Another is nicknamed the Spin and Puke; the candidate experiences spatial disorientation through a multi-directional spinning mechanism.

SERE -Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape- is, for the most part, a classified school. A wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SERE) talks about everything you need to know about SERE. There is no prior preparation available/necessary.


The mechanic school following SERE introduces the Aircrew Trainee to the basic mechanical concepts of his or her aircraft. It is the same school 6112's attend (6112 = CH-46 Mechanic)

The Trainee's flight school builds upon prior knowledge learned from Mech school. The training goes more in-depth to systems knowledge. The Trainee also begins flying and trains with qualified crew chiefs.

From personal experience as a CH-46 Trainee, what you get out of the school depends on how much you put in. All the knowledge a Marine receives from this school is based solely on his or her motivation to learn.

After graduating, the Marine in training earns his Aircrew wings and is sent to the fleet. Training doesn't end there, however. The new Crew Chief must complete a Plane Captain syllubus to become a valuble asset to the squadron. Some guys I know in Miramar are flying all the time because they are working hard at completing their syllubus. But another graduate I know personally hasn't done much to earn "signoffs" towards his Plane Captain qual and isn't given much opportunity to fly.

Training literally doesn't end there for some Marines. Marine crew chiefs who transfer to New River will eventually be sent to school for MV-22 mech/flight school.

At any point in your training after MCT, you have the option to Drop On Request (DOR) as mentioned in an earlier post. Flying is voluntary; therefore, if you do not wish to fly (or train to fly), you can drop out of the program at any time and receive a new MOS. Don't expect anything amazing, though. I have seen a lot of Marines DOR, and the top three I hear for MOS reselection are Parachute Rigger (not the official name), Admin, and one lucky Devil got LAV Technician.

Feel free to message me with any comments you have. I'd be more than happy to answer them =)

onux16
07-25-07, 09:57 PM
I'm currently training at HMM(T)-164 to be a CH-46E crew chief. I have some information for the old timers and poolees alike.

The training you go through is as follows: boot camp; MCT; Naval Aircrew Candidate School in Pensacola, FL; and SERE in Brunswick, ME (or North Island, CA for C-130's).

After SERE, the following platforms go to their respective Mech school followed by Flight school. Only the 46's go to a different locale for flight school.
UH-1: MCAS Camp Pendleton
MV-22 and CH-53: New River, NC
CH-46: New River, NC; then MCAS Camp Pendleton

I do not have information for the C-130 platform except the candidate goes to SERE after the mechanic/loadmaster course.

You need Swim Qual 2 in boot camp to qualify as a 9972 - Aircrew Trainee; supposedly in MCT, you'll have one final chance to earn 2nd class before you receive your orders for your next school.

Pensacola's NACCS program is to prepare and qualify you for water survival. When I was there, the PT was very intense, but because of the numerous injuries candidates were facing, the intensity was dumbed down a bit. Towards the end of training, candidates are subjected to numerous simulations, most notably, the Helo Dunker, which is a night and day simulation of a helicopter crashing into open water and you must properly egress/escape. Another is nicknamed the Spin and Puke; the candidate experiences spatial disorientation through a multi-directional spinning mechanism.

SERE -Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape- is, for the most part, a classified school. A wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SERE) talks about everything you need to know about SERE. There is no prior preparation available/necessary.


The mechanic school following SERE introduces the Aircrew Trainee to the basic mechanical concepts of his or her aircraft. It is the same school 6112's attend (6112 = CH-46 Mechanic)

The Trainee's flight school builds upon prior knowledge learned from Mech school. The training goes more in-depth to systems knowledge. The Trainee also begins flying and trains with qualified crew chiefs.

From personal experience as a CH-46 Trainee, what you get out of the school depends on how much you put in. All the knowledge a Marine receives from this school is based solely on his or her motivation to learn.

After graduating, the Marine in training earns his Aircrew wings and is sent to the fleet. Training doesn't end there, however. The new Crew Chief must complete a Plane Captain syllubus to become a valuble asset to the squadron. Some guys I know in Miramar are flying all the time because they are working hard at completing their syllubus. But another graduate I know personally hasn't done much to earn "signoffs" towards his Plane Captain qual and isn't given much opportunity to fly.

Training literally doesn't end there for some Marines. Marine crew chiefs who transfer to New River will eventually be sent to school for MV-22 mech/flight school.

At any point in your training after MCT, you have the option to Drop On Request (DOR) as mentioned in an earlier post. Flying is voluntary; therefore, if you do not wish to fly (or train to fly), you can drop out of the program at any time and receive a new MOS. Don't expect anything amazing, though. I have seen a lot of Marines DOR, and the top three I hear for MOS reselection are Parachute Rigger (not the official name), Admin, and one lucky Devil got LAV Technician.

On a final note, I am sorry to say, but LCpl Couto has been recycled from the program.

Feel free to message me with any comments you have. I'd be more than happy to answer them =)

sparkie
07-25-07, 10:08 PM
Airheads!!!! nuf said.

jetdoc
07-26-07, 08:36 AM
I will share what I posted on another thread about the Grunt/Air Winger deal. This is ESPECIALLY for my bro Sparkie, in case you didn't already read it, hehehe.

Y'all going into the Air Wing are wise beyond your years, one day you will find out for sure...enjoy:

"Ya see, this whole "Winger" thing goes back to some deep emotional scars left on our Grunt or Grunt(ish), brothers.

We would be either CONUS or overseas in a club, and of course its filled with Marines and some fine ladies, or some not so fine, lol. We were all Marines, however the chicks would always be with the Wing Marines. The Grunts were always a bit dirty, and had an odor about them. Its not their fault, as they slept in tents and bathed in their helmets, so the ladies naturally stayed away from such characters. Not to mention the Grunts were all ugly, hehe.

Us Wingers, on the other hand, slept in either a hotel, a USAF barracks, USN barracks, or if we had it really rough, a USMC barracks. We had regular showers and deodorant. The place's we stayed all had a foundation and were made of concrete/bricks, and didn't have dirt for a floor, hahaha. So us Wingers were always clean, smelled good and of course, we are all handsome.

So sadly for our Grunt brothers, well they never got any ladies and they have never liked us Wingers ever since...and they have not to this day figured out this story I am sharing with everyone, lol. This problem goes back many many years, hehehe.

In case any Poolees were wondering why the jealousy exists you now know why, so as you all go into the Fleet you can share this story with other Marines who may not know....I will say that I love my Grunt brothers however, we are all Marines, but as
WE ALL KNOW, the Wingers get all the chicks and this hurts our Grunt bro's deeply, hehe".

jetdoc
07-26-07, 09:12 AM
I TME'd on helo's in New River and was there for only 6 months, so I didn't deal with the Crew Chiefs that much.

I do know that the CC's when I was in fixed wing, VMFP-3 and VMFA-321, were usually former engine shop guys it seemed, maybe that was my perception.

I do know we called the CC's while on the boat, "chain apes" as doing the tie down of the a/c on the flight deck was their job.

It seemed from my viewpoint, Structual Mech, that the CC's were kinda general mechs, tires, brakes, cleaning windscreens, securing the flight crew in their seats, etc. An important job none the less.

Again, this is fixed wing, helo's CC's were different as they flew with the crews.

jetdoc
07-26-07, 11:29 PM
Big Al, I must rethink my post. I was repling to a poolee who was asking about what a Plane Captain does. I referred him here but saw this is about a Crew Chief...for some reason I was thinking about Plane Capt. when I replied to this post about CC...so I am sorry but as I am sure they are difference jobs...PLEASE IGNORE MY ABOVE COMMENTS.

In the Air National Guard where I worked 727s and 737s the Crew Chiefs there were like Plane Captains in the USMC...they were kind of general mechs, doing engine oils, tires, brakes, fueling a/c as well. They kept track of the a/c log book and were the ones that were responsible for making sure the shops came out and repaired the gripes on the a/c.

They didn't do any work the shop guys did, they just called them out to fix a problem. So thats where the confusion in my brain came about.

onux16
07-29-07, 12:57 PM
actually, JetDoc, you were rather correct coming here. Crew Chiefs are responsible for building up there own Plane Captain syllubus for qualifications on various aspects of the aircraft (I'm sure there's a better wording for that, but it's not coming to me at the moment)

Although Crew Chiefs, upon graduating their flight school, will be semi-qualified Plane Captains, mechs (mechanics) can build their own syllubus, too.

Such qualifications include fuel samling, fuel inspections, General Support Equipment licenses, and servicing various compenents, to name a few.

Years ago, CC's used to be mechanics before they applied for the position. So yes, those crew chiefs you thought came from the engine shop probably were.

That reminds me of something. There are such things as "homegrown crew chiefs", although it isn't as common as it used to be because of the formal school Marines can attend during their "post-boot camp" schooling phase.

Zulu 36
07-29-07, 02:07 PM
That reminds me of something. There are such things as "homegrown crew chiefs", although it isn't as common as it used to be because of the formal school Marines can attend during their "post-boot camp" schooling phase.
Although I was Motor T in Vietnam I was assigned to VMA-211, technically as the CO's driver. In reality I did anything I was told to do except drive the boss, because he felt I was more useful at other duties.

Most of the time I did drive a truck for S-4, but as the squadron was shorthanded, sometimes I was sent to help out on the flightline. I did ordnance fairly often, and I was makey-learn at what the Flight Line Shop called a "Second Mech." I pulled the chocks when signalled, helped watch the aircraft making sure it was clearing the wonder arches or shelters safely, pull or set RBF pins, helped fuel the A-4s, help push the a/c back into the shelters (damned reverse gear never worked), all sorts of stuff.

After a while I was allowed to do all of the hand signals to the pilot for control checks and taxi-out at launch (closely watched by a qualified plane captain, of course). I was even allowed to ride brakes a couple of times, also with a plane captain sitting half in the cockpit with me.

All-in-all it was a great experience.

jetdoc
07-29-07, 03:36 PM
Thanks onux...I don't feel like as much a dummy as I had originally thought..lol.

bgsuwoody
07-30-07, 08:50 PM
I'm bumping this for someone who can't search on the ask a Marine forum. Let me remind you this was only 10 down the list though

KevinR90
12-18-07, 07:40 AM
I realize no one has posted here in a while but i have a question. Someone briefly touched on the requirements for AG. The AG is the MOS I signed for with my recruiter about a week ago. I was wondering if I don't meet the requirements, do I get assigned a MOS or can I still choose but not have a wide variety of choices? I know someone mentioned this but I would like some more information.

Hi by the way. My first time posting on this site. My profile info is correct right? My date of entry into boot camp is 20080811

onux16
12-18-07, 10:34 AM
Hey there, Kevin.

Since you have a boot camp shipping date, I am going to assume you have been to MEPS and have been assigned the AG code through a contract with the Marines there.

This webpage is about H-46 Crew Chief qualifications; however, all the crew chiefs need the same qualifications, although the schools are in different locations:
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marineenjobs/bl6172.htm

Some of the details about the schools are off, but my previous posts in this thread will clear that up. The main things you need in order to initially qualify are:
(1) Must possess an MM score of 105 or higher.
(2) Must have normal color vision.
(3) Volunteer for duties involving flight as an aircraft crew member.
(4) Must be a 2nd class swimmer or higher.
(5) Eligible for a secret security clearance.

I'm pretty sure the GT score plays a role in your qualification, too. Basically, you need a fairly high ASVAB score (just to ensure the high enough MM and GT scores), you can NOT be color blind, and in boot camp, you need to earn a 2nd class swim qualification. I've heard about guys having a last chance to earn it at MCT training about boot camp, but don't count on that. As for the security clearance, that depends on the investigator and whether your interview turns out OK.

I've been asking a lot of 1-on-1 questions with other poolees, and I've shared some valuble information that I'll post here shortly. If you have any other questions you'd like to ask, I'm all ears =)

By the way, your profile checks good.

Wyoming
12-18-07, 05:02 PM
Yo Pete, Brother, another 46 Crew Chief!!

So fill us in - Stateside we flew alone in the back, cross-countries and all. Only on the one a week night flights did we have 'passengers'. They were chalking up time for their flight pay, and mostly slept on the benches. We did make sure they did the tie down business after the flight.

In the RVN, we had a gunner (port-side) and that was it. They rotated daily o we never knew who we were going to get until the walk around and he brought the guns to the pplane. It could have been anyone, snuffy, twidget, tin-bender or the 1stSgt.

Upon our return to CONUS, a lot of us were in the same Squadron (training) and we flew single. Check flights were the best, because we had a HAC only. Once we taxied out, we crawled into the left seat and had the stick for an hour or so.

Cross countries were neat also. On one particular trip, Vegas or Frisco, I forget now, the XO was the HAC and brought his wife. It was a FUN trip (night / cross country / fam flight) to say the least. Lights out!! I made the 2 mile club on that one!!!

Wyoming
12-18-07, 05:20 PM
.

Dagnabbit - I timed out on the edit.

Question - Pete, how much change has there been on the last 35 years?

onux16
12-18-07, 10:49 PM
I have to be honest with you, Allan. I'm not even in the fleet, so to speak. I'm flying with Marine Helicopter Squadron One. We don't run the same way as the fleet, and I'm still fresh out of school, so I couldn't tell you much. The pilots are still pretty cool. This will probably make every infantry Marine gasp in shock, but I've been on beer runs for some of the pilots... and that's for starters!

As for climbing in the cockpit, it's still a "tradition". My recruiter is a 46 Crew Chief, too, and he's told me all sorts of stories during his time in the Gulf War. Taking the controls every now and then was one of several that he shared.

And if you didn't know, there have been A LOT of changes to the aircraft since Vietnam. And flying at night still blows, even with NVG's, but I bet the extra hands tying down the aircraft was good enough motivation to get through the night, eh? :yes:

Pooless, take note: this is by far, the best job the Corps has to offer.

KevinR90
12-20-07, 08:55 AM
I keep hearing that the CH-46 crew chief is the best job there is. I even got to talk to a CH-46 pilot at a helicopter airshow a couple months ago. He was reserve (Lt.Col. I think he was) and he said he loves the CH-46 a lot. I was just wondering if there's anything wrong with the Hueys or the other helicopters. Everyone seems to be gunning for the 46.

I just hope I get crew chief for any type of helicopter. I'm afraid of failing the requirements (I haven't gone swimming in a long time) and I don't really want to go to fixed wing- helicopters are where I want to be.

onux16
12-20-07, 10:41 AM
Kevin, when I was swimming in boot camp, I was a 200-lb rock, and I passed. Just keep doing the strokes required, don't give up and, to quote Douglas Adams, DON'T PANIC! The 2nd Class qual is a pain in the neck but it's possible.

Water survival in Pensacola isn't hard at all, even with myself as a 220-lb rock (not a typo; I gained an unusual amount of weight in MCT). You'll have a swim buildup for your first week which prepares you for everything else. Just do what we did: grab your junk, take a deep breath, and give yourself an oorah! (or something motivational)

The Crew Chief MOS for any platform is the best, and each person is going to say their bird is better than the others. Here's why I believe the Phrogs are the best:
--although they leak like a runny nose in December, they don't break down as much as the 53's.
--the V-22's can only support one aft-mounted machine gun. The only time when you can fire back is after the enemy has shot the bird up a couple of times! I love the quote "You bastards want to live forever?!", but that's ridiculous.
--is there a Hell Hole in the Hueys? I suppose the only way to make up for that is to allow Huey Crew Chiefs to test the Cobras. ::shrugs::
--as for HMX-1, all of the VH-3 guys are miserable because they aren't H-60's, and the H-60 guys are miserable because they aren't the Phrog.
(what? I can't do some trash talking every now and then? haha)


btw, Kevin, if your vision is around 20/100 or worse, you will be placed on the C-130 platform. Anything better will reserve you a spot on the helos.

KevinR90
12-20-07, 11:57 AM
Thank you for some good information so fast. Unfortunately I do have worse than 20/100 vision. Without my glasses i have 20/400 in one eye and something similar in the other. I do plan on eventually getting eye surgery though. So right now, since I wear glasses, I'd get assigned to C-130's? And if that happens, can I eventually switch over to helicopters if I get eye surgery?

onux16
12-20-07, 12:08 PM
Even with glasses, yes, you will be on C-130's. It's not so bad, though. You will have several opportunities to travel. Hopefully you don't get homesick easily!

You should probably consult your recruiter first about the eye surgery and if getting it done will increase your chances of helos. It might take some time to get an answer, though, as he might have to ask other Marines, too. Personally, I would recommend giving the Hercules a try and having the surgery done while on active duty -- it will be cheaper for you, if not completely free. Then, after two years, you might have the ability to make a lateral move. Your chances of moving would be greater than most Marines since all you would need is your mechanics course and flight school.

Again, I can't stress enough how much you should consult your recruiter. And if he doesn't help in any way, either ask another recruiter at the station or bug the crap out of him to give you phone numbers for other sources and try yourself. I'm sure there are other Marines with much more information they can provide you with.

KevinR90
12-20-07, 12:18 PM
Ok, thanks very much. I'll have to talk to my recruiter about it. Even if getting eye surgery doesn't increase my chances at getting back to helicopters, i will still get the surgery (something I'd want to do whether or not i was in the military).

I have to give him a call anyway because he didn't call me on Wednesday (his weekly contact thing). Or am I suppose to call him??

onux16
12-21-07, 12:12 AM
Show some initiative; call him instead.

Here's an insider tip: you can be a flightline/avionics/airframe mechanic and still later become a Crew Chief (not home brewed like the salty Marines on these forums), or at the least an Aerial Observer which shares similar duties as a crew chief.

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-14-08, 04:15 AM
Just want to put it out there so no one gets any more bad info. 46 crew chiefs are not the best. Huey crew chiefs are. Thats all there is to it.

onux16
01-14-08, 06:35 PM
FLRULZURSHPSCKS, I'd happily flame war with you all day about which platform is best, but there are poolees and parents looking for genuine, helpful information about this duty. As such, I'll be keeping my posts professional. Likewise, being a crew chief on any platform is the best, in my honest opinion, and I'd recommend it to anyone willing to work hard enough to reap its rewards.

Semper Fi.

rvillac2
01-14-08, 06:50 PM
jeesh, FLRULZURSHPSCKS.
How are you still a PFC?

jetdoc
01-14-08, 07:07 PM
I was guaranteed Aviation, thats it. I went to Memphis and became a structual mech....then to MCAS New River, HMM-264 for TME. After TME training I was sent out to work F-4's in El Toro.

Point being, back in 78 I think you could move from fixed to rotors with no problem? Can't really recall. With my MOS I somehow went from Helo's to Fixed wing with no number change.


.

I might be losing me mind, but I'm sure I replied to a question today from a poolee writing that his recruiter said he could sign up for a Crew Chief MOS. Maybe so, today, but that isn’t how it used to work.

Going in, I was guaranteed an Aviation MOS. That was all.

I was a 6211, I believe, which was Helicopter, Reciprocal, Mechanic.

Anyway, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that being a Crew Chief came with time served as a mech. I'm not sure, but quite possibly some tin-benders, twigets and grease rags went on to be Crew Chiefs. If not, they were all fine gunners.


As it was, in 34's and 46's, there was a PIC and SIC, along with a Gunner, who rotated, as did the Pilots. The Helicopter was deemed the property of the Crew Chief, and he flew it on every mission.

The pilots were in command while in the air, BUT, when on the ground, the 'authority' turned to the Crew Chief.


If you get a chance, google Mike Clausen, the only Marine Crew Chief in Viet Nam to receive the CMOH. Read his citation. Mike did his thing while the pilots sat, and only then did the helicopter take off.

onux16
01-14-08, 07:50 PM
The NATOPS and NAMP programs, as I understand it, set the rules later in the lifetime of Navy/Marine aviation where a mechanic trained under Platform X could not maintain Platform Y without proper formal training and certification. Anyone else with more knowledge care to clarify?

jetdoc
01-14-08, 08:02 PM
The NATOPS and NAMP programs, as I understand it, set the rules later in the lifetime of Navy/Marine aviation where a mechanic trained under Platform X could not maintain Platform Y without proper formal training and certification. Anyone else with more knowledge care to clarify?

Thats what I was referring to, just didn't say it so eloquently, :thumbup:

onux16
01-14-08, 08:06 PM
lol I don't know if I should say Thanks or You're Welcome. :cool:

jetdoc
01-14-08, 08:19 PM
lol I don't know if I should say Thanks or You're Welcome. :cool:

either will work brother!!!

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-15-08, 02:10 AM
jeesh, FLRULZURSHPSCKS.
How are you still a PFC?

As far as I and my shop are concerned, I am again a PFC for not ratting out members of my shop for some bullsh** when they and I got in some trouble. Sorry to not have a more in depth reason, thats about all I can say on that.

onux16
01-15-08, 04:12 AM
FLRUL, I heard from another Marine that you Huey CC's get to test ride in Cobras. How fun is that?

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-16-08, 04:04 PM
Its a good g*ddamn time dude. We fly front seat with a pilot in back. Best is when he says you have controls.

Wyoming
01-16-08, 04:28 PM
Its a good g*ddamn time dude. We fly front seat with a pilot in back. Best is when he says you have controls.

You know, my fine friend, I've been gone a few days and am just now catching up, but with all I have read, if which you wrote, including your reply to my PM, I'm still confused.

Are you really a UH-1E Crew Chief and do you sport A/C Wings?

Does the flight log show you as having command of the helicopter, when you were given the controls?

How many flights must you take to become a certified C/C?

How many flights must you take to earn your Wings?

How many flights must you take, per Air Medal.

Can a C/C earn both the A/C Wings and CAR with only flight time and no ground time?

When would a C/C be eligible for the DFC?

Also, and I don't know how the Hueys are today, but a HAC and SIC, along with the C/C, were the only ones on board, even in 46's.



A new World and I am simply wondering.

southernculture
01-16-08, 08:39 PM
I am 100% positive on this one. You can sign up for a AG program and get crew chief. You also can sign up to be a mech and get on flight orders as an AO aerial observer door gunner. I am actuall flight equipment and flew as an AO in 53's. Any one can become an AO. Crew chief is a different job and these aircres 1st job. They recieve a 2ndary MOS as a mech.

Side note u were in hmm-165 the white nights huh! I know a couple of buddies that served in that squadron. I am trying to get orders to vmm-264. An osprey squadron.

jungleman4422
01-17-08, 12:54 AM
I actually got the AG contract from my recruiter, I just had to have and above 110 on my GT luckly I scored a 112.

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-17-08, 03:20 PM
reply to bigal...
Yes I am sure I am a UH-1N cc and yes I have earned my wings and wear them proudly. The only time we get to take controls is during tests and with pilots who know us, it's unofficial so it isn't in any log. There are 17 flights plus natops check ride to earn A/C wings. As far as your air medal question I dont know the answer, seeing as how I am stuck at a taining squadron. If you want to look it up, it's HMLA/T-303. These are the answers I know to your questions, if anyone else has any insight, feel free.

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-17-08, 03:27 PM
[quote=FLRULZURSHPSCKS]If you want to look it up, it's HMLA/T-303.quote]

by it I mean my squadron and what we do.

KevinR90
01-19-08, 01:01 AM
I was originally going to sign up for the AF contract, but after I got home from MEPs and my recruiter sat down with me he pulled out 2 other contracts along with the AF. We went over them- with my parents right there- and discussed which ones i wanted to do most. He showed me for the time slot I was going to go in for, there were 6 slots open for AF and 2 for AG (can't remember what the other one was). I love helicopters/flying so I picked AG. As i've posted before I just have to worry about my vision keeping me off of helicopters.

onux16
01-19-08, 01:35 AM
Hey there, Kevin! Good to hear from you again. Did you make any plans yet with the eye surgeon? Hopefully all goes well.

:banana:

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
01-19-08, 01:40 AM
Dude if your eyesight is too bad you might not make it. But if its a little bad you can be C-130's. If better than that, try for what you want. PM me if you need more info, I will try my best to get it for you. I may be a PFC but it is 2ND award I've been in for over 2 years.

KevinR90
01-19-08, 08:06 AM
No i haven't made plans with an eye surgeon because i'm not 18 yet, and my prescription is still changing (needs to be stable to have surgery- i read this normally happens early-mid 20s)

I'll just ask my recruiter about it

Banshee
07-01-08, 02:19 PM
Hello!

I would just like to say thank you, Marines, for all of your information. I signed up as AG without any understanding of what it was besides flying on a helo, as my recruiter didn't know much about it. I am very excited for this opportunity and am very pleased with how difficult training will be--I can't wait for SERE!

I have talked to other Crew Chief Marines on this site and would be very appreciative if I could add you to my contacts/friends list. This is an amazing thread--the best information I have been able to find online.

Thank you.

KevinR90
07-02-08, 12:05 PM
Don't forget, you might get placed on C-130's, not just helicopters. I'm hoping for helicopters, and more specifically CH-46's.

ttracker65
07-04-08, 11:11 AM
What your talking about is Recon, its signed up as a 03 MOS, ... Entirely different thing then Force Recon .. which is basically the Hardest Part of the Marine corps and nearly all of them are Disqualified for that before even starting training for it, its that hard.


I hate to say it but MARSOC does have a direct entry Please feel free to IM me if you would like the link. As a matter of fact here is the link. Good luck for those that wish to use it. http://www.marsoc.usmc.mil/index.htm

SgtHMH
07-04-08, 11:44 PM
Here are the MOSs for Crew Chiefs for each Airframe for Rotors
1. 6168-Basic Helicopter Crew Chief
2. 6172- Crew Chief CH-46
3. 6173-Crew Chief CH-53
4. 6174-Crew Chief UH-1n
5. 6176-Crew Chief MV-22 Osprey
6. 6177-Crew Chief V-23
7. 6320 Helicopter Door Gunner

These are the MOS numbers on the new board of numbers.

Semper Fi Rotor Heads

onux16
07-05-08, 12:03 AM
Is that an official list, SgtHMH? I'm asking because, although the sources I use to research MOS's aren't official, I know for a fact that the 63/64 MOS's are avionics (aircraft electronics), a field the door gunner wouldn't fit with. Likewise, I have never heard of 6168, especially since I never earned that designation during any phase in my training, although I did rate 9972 -- Aircrew Trainee.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Marine_Corps_MOS#60.2F61.2F6 2_Aircraft_Maintenance) has a list of USMC MOS's. I don't know if it's an updated list, so take everything on it with a grain of salt. I can personally verify the crew chief MOS's under the 61xx field, though.

Botz47
07-10-08, 01:25 AM
Wow, I love this thread. I found so much information here and many answers to questions I had. I just completed my ASVAB (scored a 70) and qualified for the crew chief MOS. I havn't completed my physical yet, so I don't have a ship date which is why I'm registered as a friend atm. I told my recruiter I wanted to do something in aviation, specifically a crew chief. He first showed me the AM contract or aviation mechanic. I told him I wanted to actually be flying, not just working on aircrafts. He ripped the AM contract in half and pulled out the AG Aircrew/Navigator/Mechanic contract. I signed it knowing crew chief fell under the 6100s.

My question is, what are the chances of me actually becoming a crew chief? I've read this thread and understand you must fulfill many qualifications in order to become one, but is there a chance they will give me a mechanic MOS or Navigator? The contract I signed seemed kinda broad, and I would like to know what I can do to ensure I get a crew chief MOS.

onux16
07-10-08, 06:18 PM
If you signed the AG contract, you will be on the road to becoming a crew chief. Period. No fine print. No if, ands, or buts.

There is only one thing holding you back from becoming a crew chief -- yourself. Boot camp and MCT are only the beginning. When you go to Naval Aircrew Candidate School in Pensacola, you're entering a new game. From Day 1, the instructors give you the opportunity to DOR -- drop on request -- to give up and call it quits with no questions asked. Nobody will stop you. And when you're pushed beyond your limits, knowing you can end the stress makes training that much harder. If you make it through all of the schools I have talked about in earlier posts, and you are pinned an aircrewman in flight school, you are officially a crew chief.

You signed the contract telling the United States of America that if it promised you a guarenteed job --the job YOU want-- that you will fulfill every requirement to obtain it. Will you let your country down or make it proud?

Whitey
07-11-08, 02:47 PM
no offense lance corporal but the hardest part of NACCS is not the training. its the freaking medical. maybe i'm a little bitter cause i just got NPQ'd though

onux16
07-11-08, 04:02 PM
You're absolutely right, Whitey. Whether aircrew candidates break due to the training regiment or from previous undeclared medical issues, the fact of the matter is it's not motivating. I'm here to ensure potential candidates go in looking forward to training, not fearing it.

Sorry to hear about your situation, though. I bet you went in head-strong. I know it's the medical situation that's holding you back. And it's OK to feel bitter. But you need to make the best of what you have and use that motivation towards your next duty. Semper Fi, Marine.

Whitey
07-12-08, 07:33 PM
but like I said. the training isn't hard. most of the people that bolo out have it happen due to medical.

I don't know anyone that DOR'd


so you know of mr evans and mr ruber?

onux16
07-13-08, 01:25 AM
I think Mr. Evans was the swim coach and Mr. Ruber was the PT Hold instructor when I went through. It's definitely been a while though.

Whitey
07-13-08, 11:10 AM
yep. then mr walters is in the disillusioned world that he's a pirate. yeah i spent many a days with mr ruber while on med hold.

onux16
07-13-08, 11:14 AM
a pirate?! haha Is P.O. Mills still there? That guy was a PT machine (that's an understatement)

Whitey
07-13-08, 01:15 PM
no. now for petty officers its green, clout, littlefield, littledale and a few others i can't think of then for the Marine instructors it's GySgt Cox, Sgt Hayes, Sgt Peterson and Sgt Burleson. When I first got here there was also Sgt. Castanon but he's gone to DI school

rkidd4
07-14-08, 11:42 AM
Here are the MOSs for Crew Chiefs for each Airframe for Rotors
1. 6168-Basic Helicopter Crew Chief
2. 6172- Crew Chief CH-46
3. 6173-Crew Chief CH-53
4. 6174-Crew Chief UH-1n
5. 6176-Crew Chief MV-22 Osprey
6. 6177-Crew Chief V-23
7. 6320 Helicopter Door Gunner

These are the MOS numbers on the new board of numbers.

Semper Fi Rotor Heads

Ive signed up for this contract too and am leaning towards 6320...My question is...is this still considered being a crewchief?

onux16
07-14-08, 03:44 PM
Ive signed up for this contract too and am leaning towards 6320...My question is...is this still considered being a crewchief?

If I'm not mistaken, crew chiefs and AO's must qualify to be door gunners. There is some sort of course you need to take, or perhaps just receive OJT or flight codes. My squadron's mission isn't combat oriented, so I can't tell you for sure, but I'm sure FLRULZURSHPSCKS (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/member.php?u=48820) can better assist you.

To answer your question (and reword my answer), a door gunner is a qualified crew chief or AO.

Dolamyte
08-08-08, 04:04 AM
Sorry about bringing this back to life, but I'm trying to see if there are any Tilt Rotor Crew Chiefs floating around on this. I've been considering a re-enlistment and Lat Move to 6176 and want to see if I can pick someones brain about it. So any MV-22 guys out here or someone know of one I can bug with a bunch of questions?

onux16
08-08-08, 04:59 AM
Hey there, Sgt.
You should post some of your questions on this board. Not only will you benefit from having learned about the V-22, but poolees and transitioning Phrog crew chiefs can, too.

*for those who didn't know, Marines who maintain the H-46 are slowly being transitioned to the MV-22 as the Corps replaces and upgrades its aging fleet of helicopters. (research the H-53K and the Yankee-Zulu programs for other helo upgrades)

Dolamyte
08-08-08, 05:45 AM
Hey there, Sgt.
You should post some of your questions on this board. Not only will you benefit from having learned about the V-22, but poolees and transitioning Phrog crew chiefs can, too.

*for those who didn't know, Marines who maintain the H-46 are slowly being transitioned to the MV-22 as the Corps replaces and upgrades its aging fleet of helicopters. (research the H-53K and the Yankee-Zulu programs for other helo upgrades)

Good catch Onux. I do Air Traffic Control and Avionics (AVA-I) right now, and we've had a few of those Yankee and Zulu models for the AH and UH-1's come my way. They're set up pretty nicely, and now I just have to try and hook up a ride on one.

Tilt Rotor questions...Well starting from day one I would like to know what kind of a time line to expect for schools. I have a rough idea of NACCS for about a month, SERE in Maine for three weeks, then three months in New River for A school, and Air Crew School for another three to four months. Is that about right? And seeing that I'm a Lat Move I wont have the problem of waiting for a school seat so what can I expect for a start to finish time?

I assume PT conducted at the schools, but what kind of schedule and intensity can I expect at each school?

With schools, again I have a rough idea, but can someone break down each school, what to expect and prepare for, and anything to be weary of?

After all that is said and done, what quals/certifications will I still need to get (Plane Capt ect.) or will I be flying right away?

What might be considered par for the course when it comes to daily life at work. How much maintaining will I be doing, how much paper work, pre/post flights, briefings, and what kind of collateral duties are there? Maybe a break down of a some what typical day?

How much time can I expect to be flying in a day, in a week.

I'm going to school now so how easy will it be to continue that being a Crew Chief?

Since the 22 is going forward now, are Crew Chiefs earning Combat Wings? And how does the Air Medal work for us E-Dogs, if at all.

How are Lat Movers generally accepted in the squadrons?

Do Cpl's and below have a hard time accepting a Sgt that lat moved? And what might be some things to help aliviate that besides what's on my collar. To clarify, rank is enough, but obedience and respect are two different games

I could think of a million more questions so if I've left anything out I hope others can add to it. Also, any other tips, suggestions, common practices or things to look out for would help as well. Any Crew Chief can answers these I'm sure so everyone please chime, and for the Air Frame specific ones hopefully there is a 6176 reading. A final note though. What kind of place is New River? I'm coming from The Stumps, so I can only assume it might be better, but I'm not holding my breath.

onux16
08-08-08, 07:14 PM
Wow, that was a mouthful, Sergeant! I'll try my best answering your questions, but for some, I'll do my best finding someone who will know. What I offer is personal experience training as an H-46 crew chief as well as time served as a Pres. Support crew chief; I'm sure it applies to all crew chiefs.

Your schools aren't very PT intense. Pensacola is the closest thing you'll find to "intense" group PT, and I hear on the Lance Corporal Underground that it's gotten easier. Basically, expect to go solo if you want a good workout unless you have a PT buddy.

Roughly, the schools are NACCS (Pensacola) for one month, SERE for two weeks, Mech School for two months, flight school for 19 weeks. I've heard if you're lat moving to V-22's that the mech school should be easier since you're familiar with a lot of the procedures already (towing, tools, NAMP, etc.)

I've recently made a "lat move" to another airframe, and I can say that a qualified Lance Corporal has more say over a new Sergeant. The LCpl still has to treat the Sergeant with tact, but the shop will back the LCpl if he ever has to prove to the Sgt he isn't a pushover... if you get my drift. Just work your tail off and prove you want to learn and qualify, and you'll earn respect faster.

The goal at flight school is to become a Plane Captain. Although you'll have the knowledge of a Plane Captain, you'll have to requalify at whichever squadron you check in with. There's a syllabus you need to follow as well as take tests, both on paper and person-to-person. Since you'll have your wings (read: Aircrew qualification) you'll be able to fly. Being a Plane Captain allows you to fly solo, though, so it's highly recommended you earn the qual as soon as possible. Other quals include taking fuel samples solo (Fuel Surveillance), APU qual, and towing/brake riding, to name a few.

I could type forever about "a typical day", so I'll keep it short. Your typical day is dependent on which flights are going out as well as what kind of maintenance needs to be done. With that said, it's extremely difficult to continue your education as a crew chief. The hours are pretty crazy and are never the same each day. To give you an idea, I've had too many 14-hour work days to count. It takes a whole lot of dedication to complete your education.

My post on Page 3 of this thread explains all you need to know in relation to school preparation and what to learn. And as for Combat Wings, I haven't heard anything, but I do believe it's possible to earn them under certain circumstances.

That's about as short and detailed as I can make it. If you want more details, feel free to PM me, and post new questions when they come up. I love helping anyone willing to learn.

Wyoming
08-08-08, 09:27 PM
Phrogs Phorever!

Truer words never wrote!!

jeffsnff89
08-08-08, 11:16 PM
My cousin jut graduated from boot camp today and he asked me what my MOS was I told him Crew chief he said that I will be on ships a lot of the time is that true? Will I be out to sea more often if I get though all the qualifications or more land?

onux16
08-09-08, 01:48 PM
It depends on the unit you're with. My buddies from flight school checked into their Okinawa squadrons and were on a detachment not even two months later touring the Pacific. You won't spend years at a time at sea, but the chance arises often. It's a good time from what they tell me, so look at sea duty as an opportunity.

As a little hint -- the more qualified you are, the more your unit will want you to go with them.

cmdr358
08-10-08, 04:37 AM
Way back when- you were a helicopter mechanic. If your squadron thought you were right for it then you were taken under the wing of an experienced crew chief who trained you according to a syllabus and when you were done you were tested by a qualified crew chief from the QA office and the squadron Maint. Officer or other senior pilot and you got your wings.
By 1983 they were sending new Marines straight to Pensacola for training as air crewmen- these boots showed up at the squadron wearing flight suits but no wings- still had to be earned. But they had absolutely no training in maintenance/mechanics.
I can't see how the Corps can now just start issuing crew chiefs to squadrons- how much flight time can they possibly have ? And training ? Training in an FMF unit is one thing and training in school is another. One is practical and unpredictable- the other is staged and undependable as a tool for evaluating people.

onux16
08-10-08, 10:38 AM
to follow the tradition of crew chiefs being mechanics first, the Corps sends the boot to mech school like all the other mechanics first; upon graduating, they're sent to flight school to earn their wings. Although the most maintenance experience they'll have is safety wiring and the occasional line tightening, the Marine in training will graduate not only with his wings but with 40+ hours of flight time and have basic systems knowledge to become a Plane Captain. To graduate, you're required to know the name and location of 500+ components (at least for the Phrog) and how they all work and their limitations; in flight, you need to prove you are capable of flying solo without assistance from anybody, making all the right calls at the right time.

Flights that a graduate will be familiar with/have flown are: close area landings (day/night, aided/unaided), low-level terrain flights (TERF), navigation, night time nav unaided and aided (aided = NVG's), external operations, and several familiarizations.

FLRULZURSHPSCKS
08-10-08, 04:51 PM
Plus gun runs for hueys. Also you have to be a plane captain before you even start flying for hueys.

Books
08-10-08, 05:22 PM
Crew Chief is definitely going to be one of MOS choices, though I am not sure in what order. Very interesting and informative reading this thread, I appreciate it, Marines.

KevinR90
08-10-08, 06:38 PM
Would you have to be a plane captain for CH-46's too? Is there only one enlisted crew member on board or is there more? I can't remember when I was at a helicopter air show b/c I was talking to the pilot, but I thought I only saw one enlisted crew member. I could be wrong.

onux16
08-10-08, 07:05 PM
Marine Corps minimum requirements are two pilots and a crew chief. It really depends on the mission, though. Are you flying a combat-related flight, CASEVAC (casualty evacuation), night flight, terrain flight, or basic familiarization flight? Each kind of flight requires a different number of crew aboard the aircraft.

And no matter which aircraft you fly on, the crew chief is expected to become a plane captain. It is so essential to the unit's mission that punishments can be indirectly inflicted on you for not obtaining the qualification. I say indirectly because one of my classmates never got the ___ beat out of him, but they prevented him from being promoted to PFC (he got NJP'd before picking up LCpl and earned Loss of Rank before we graduated flight school).

Back on topic, a Crew Chief and a Plane Captain are two different duties. A Crew Chief is an in-flight mechanic and systems knowledge jack-of-all-trades, performing maintenance during flight and assisting the pilots with anything they can not correct themselves. The Plane Captain uses his extensive knowledge of the aircraft to inspect for discrepancies while on the ground -- excessive leaking, airframe and component damages, servicing, etc -- and writes up the proper forms to have those discrepancies corrected. Do you see how the two duties go hand-in-hand and why we need the two?

Dolamyte
08-12-08, 01:10 AM
Onux, thanks for being so dedicated to this thread!! Here is another question for you. between 6176 and 7382 (Loadmaster?) which do you think would be a better gig? Would it be possible for you to list what the duties and differences might be? Travel, Duty Stations, Deployments, OpTempo Conus and OConus, Responsibilities ect?

onux16
08-12-08, 04:36 AM
That's pretty tough... I don't know much about fixed wings, especially C-130's. My squadron works occasionally with Air Force C-130's, but I don't think they've transported our aircrafts or gear overseas. I do believe C-130's do OCONUS runs, though, since I remember a story about Loadmasters in Germany from a veteran while in DEP. Also, Loadmasters have three duties in one (see link below).

As a Phrog guy, I should probably hate myself for saying this, but I'd much rather take the 6176 V-22 Crew Chief job. Something about working on smaller aircrafts, having a more direct role in combat ops, seems more exciting to me. So far, MV-22 Marines are stationed on the East Coast (and Miramar?) but as the CH-46 is phased out, the Osprey will replace those squadrons. And for the record, I've had the chance to talk to the VX-22 guys and they say there are tests being done on a nose-mounted machine gun controlled by the crew chief. *Sign. Me. Up.*

For anyone interested in learning more about these two MOS's, About.com has some useful information on them and what you need to qualify:
6176
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/6176.htm
7382
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marineenjobs/bl7382.htm

And thanks for the praise, Dolamyte. There isn't a whole lot of information on the internet about crew chief duties, and what little there is sucks pretty badly, so I needed to step up and get this information out there.

Dolamyte
08-12-08, 04:54 AM
Well it is much appreciated. A little insider scoop about the front mounted gun...one of the main rigs they are testing is a three barrel 7.62 gat, and it moves just like the forward facing gats on our gunships and Army AH-64's. The Crew Chief wears an attachment on his helmet and it aims where he looks, and with that Crew Chief seat in between and above the pilots that view should be pretty damn nice! If I go ahead with tilt rotors I'll save you a seat on a gun run!

Speaking of which...Can a CC invite someone to go flying with them? Let say I wanted my Father, Active Duty CWO-5 to come for a ride, is that something I can make happen? Not Fam Flight stuff, but lets say it's a failry easy mission profile, TERF or Externals. I fly with my Dad all the time in his H-60's(Army) and I know he would love to go up in the MV-22. Would if be possible to invite Family that is not Active or Reserve? I wouldn't want to clog up the bird with friends and family while I'm trying to work, but I think they would appreciate it.

I've been to those links more than once and they are informative, but certainly not as much as from someone fulfilling those duties. I've talked to many Crew Chiefs and Load Masters, but the result is almost always the same, especially when the individual has a few rockers going. It starts out with a few benign and easy questions and as soon as I mention Ospr....not don't do it, being Load Master is the best, Hueys are the best, and Osprey are cool when your on the ground and they're a mile out, and so on and so forth. I try in vein to reel the the conversations back in but it always ends with me getting a bunch of flak and heat, and all other platforms aren't as good as what they fly. I understand rivalry and pride, I get it, but it really doesn't help me lol. So thank you for not preaching Phrogs, though they are my first choice, they just wont let me move to them.

Books
08-12-08, 08:28 AM
If you go for the C/C MOS, do you get to choose your aircraft or is it random whether you get CH-53E, V-22, CH-46, UH-1N, etc. If I had the choice I'd do the UH-1N, then CH-53E, then V-22, then CH-46.

onux16
08-12-08, 05:18 PM
technically your MOS is chosen for you at Pensacola. When I went through, some Gunnery Sergeant I never met before told my classmates where they were going and gave me the choice. The reason why is either because I voluntarily chose to be class cadence caller or was deemed class honorman, probably both.

And Dolamyte, I could preach the CH-46 to you all day, but in the end I wouldn't be answering your question ;) Honestly, though, the MV-22 isn't a bad choice. People can make all the wise cracks they want, but I think the Osprey program can and will be successful. If it's what interests you, then by all means, go for it. As for flying family around during a training exercise, I don't know. While they aren't doing anything besides sitting there, it's technically extra weight on the aircraft and another thing the crew chief has to be accountable for. I realize the Army airwingers might let you, but we both know the Corps does things differently. I suppose it's at the command's discretion.

Tripwire42
09-03-08, 01:42 AM
First I want to thank all of you for all of the information on the CC job. I have a small problem though, and I feel the contributors to this thread may be able to help a bit. After telling my recruiter that I was interested in a Mechanic position for Rotary-Wing Vehicles, SSgt Simms (also in my RSS) told me about the Crew Chief job. Needless to say I became extremely interested and wanted to try for it. At MEPs I passed physicals just fine with acceptable vision (Correctable by Surgery), Nailed a 95 on the ASVAB and got a 137 GT Score (115 is the minimum I believe?) I signed my contract in July and went on my merry way, my recruiter assured me I would have the job and it was on my contract. Well, I recently got him to photocopy my contract for me just so I have it, I didn't think about it when I got back from MEPs. Well, I heard a friend of mine who is now in the Corps that he went in with "AG" and failed on the CWS-2 portion in boot and just went Rotary Wing Mechanic. Well, I just pulled out my contract and in the additional details of the agreement it states "AB" in bold letters, and that is all. Numerous google searches have turned up nothing for the "AB" program code. Can anyone tell me what it is? Possible Typo? B and G are right next to each other on the keyboard. I plan on confronting my recruiter about it tomorrow at weekly PT and be firm that I won't swear in in December unless I have an AG contract. Is this the correct stance to take? I'm fairly certain I'm up to the challenges the CC job presents and I'm motivated as hell to get on a UH-1 (preferably).

Mikewebe
09-03-08, 01:54 AM
Dude first off do you know how many UH-1's are even still flying, can you say AN TEEQ, You will be working with CH-53's and Ch-46's and maybe maybe in your for years You will even see a Huey. That a Nam bird man question that **** ASAP, and I ain't trying to mess up your Moto, but there ain't no rotor better than the 53

Dolamyte
09-03-08, 01:58 AM
First I want to thank all of you for all of the information on the CC job. I have a small problem though, and I feel the contributors to this thread may be able to help a bit. After telling my recruiter that I was interested in a Mechanic position for Rotary-Wing Vehicles, SSgt Simms (also in my RSS) told me about the Crew Chief job. Needless to say I became extremely interested and wanted to try for it. At MEPs I passed physicals just fine with acceptable vision (Correctable by Surgery), Nailed a 95 on the ASVAB and got a 137 GT Score (115 is the minimum I believe?) I signed my contract in July and went on my merry way, my recruiter assured me I would have the job and it was on my contract. Well, I recently got him to photocopy my contract for me just so I have it, I didn't think about it when I got back from MEPs. Well, I heard a friend of mine who is now in the Corps that he went in with "AG" and failed on the CWS-2 portion in boot and just went Rotary Wing Mechanic. Well, I just pulled out my contract and in the additional details of the agreement it states "AB" in bold letters, and that is all. Numerous google searches have turned up nothing for the "AB" program code. Can anyone tell me what it is? Possible Typo? B and G are right next to each other on the keyboard. I plan on confronting my recruiter about it tomorrow at weekly PT and be firm that I won't swear in in December unless I have an AG contract. Is this the correct stance to take? I'm fairly certain I'm up to the challenges the CC job presents and I'm motivated as hell to get on a UH-1 (preferably).

If you haven't sworn in, and/or signed your contract then it's still on the table for modification. Do you have a ship date for boot? Don't sign it until you are satisfied, and then double check it ten more times just to make sure. Like dozens have said before, it's your life, your career, and this is voluntary, it's one of the few times in the Marines where you can call the shots according to your agenda. Until then don't worry about what airframe you'll get. Whatever you land it's all on what you put into it. By trade I'm an Avionics guru, AVA-I specifically, and though I wanted to work on Prowlers I got MATCU and work in ATC now, I dont' have any real time working on a particualr airframe even. The job has offered me so many great opportunities and experiences,and I took advantage of them. I'm moving on from it into the Air Crew community and hope for the same all over again! If you want Air Crew then make sure it's what you're getting. Don't accept typos, becuase it wont hold water when you argue that you ended up sitting behind a cash register at GSA, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Dolamyte
09-03-08, 02:02 AM
Dude first off do you know how many UH-1's are even still flying, can you say AN TEEQ, You will be working with CH-53's and Ch-46's and maybe maybe in your for years You will even see a Huey. That a Nam bird man question that **** ASAP, and I ain't trying to mess up your Moto, but there ain't no rotor better than the 53

Phrogs are Nam ear too, but they are being phased out way faster then Hueys. Heck they have Yankee and Zulu models coming out so it'll be around for a while to come. But those models came out to be able to support the 22's, which is what you'll most likely get, and what I'm staying in for.

Mikewebe
09-03-08, 02:12 AM
Yeah but for a kid that wants on Hueys going into 09, I mean yeah both 46's and 53's are old but Hueys

Mikewebe
09-03-08, 02:21 AM
Osprey's ? And Dolomyte I got some AD questions for ya as well, if you don't mind

Dolamyte
09-03-08, 02:23 AM
Yea Osprey's, best gig for a Lat Morver if you ask me, at least for what I want to accomplish. I wont goto 53's, Phrogs are out since they are standing down the squadrons, and Huey's are too close to 100% of TO. What questions do you have?


Osprey's ? And Dolomyte I got some AD questions for ya as well, if you don't mind

onux16
09-03-08, 04:55 AM
@Tripwire42
It's been said already, but you need to demand from your recruiter the AG contract, even if it delays the day you go to boot camp, and do not accept anything else. This AB thing is a load of [insert expletive], and he's pulling a fast one on you. Again, AG is the contract you want. Good on you for requesting a copy.

@Mikewebe, in relation to the H-53 comment
Let's not be subjective. Everybody has a favorite bird, but we should keep our opinions to ourselves on this thread. Essentially, poolees and lat-moving Marines need facts before going to boot camp or changing their career path; with all due respect, if someone wants an opinion, they'd ask.

Tripwire42
09-03-08, 01:35 PM
I did sign a contract, I was sworn in by an army captain on 20080625 and i ship on 20081208. My recruiter has always been straight up with me, and he's the very reason I chose Marines over Air Force. the USAF recruiter was basically trying to get me to go to MEPs without discussing a job first, even with a high practice ASVAB score. Sgt Fields (my recruiter) let me look over a ton of options and worked with me a lot. From what I heard, somewhat special arrangement were made for me to take that job, because they weren't supposed to have one at our RSS. Now, whether they actually made arrangements and that was a simple typo, or if he did in fact pull a fast one remains to be seen. PT was moved from monday to today because of Memorial Day, so I'm showing up early to talk to him.

I'm a fan of smaller birds, and the Huey has always been a favorite of mine. The new Yankee Huey looks dynamite as well, but from what I've researched it only has 2 crew members (Pilot, Co-Pilot)? How can this be correct?

Dolamyte
09-03-08, 01:45 PM
I did sign a contract, I was sworn in by an army captain on 20080625 and i ship on 20081208. My recruiter has always been straight up with me, and he's the very reason I chose Marines over Air Force. the USAF recruiter was basically trying to get me to go to MEPs without discussing a job first, even with a high practice ASVAB score. Sgt Fields (my recruiter) let me look over a ton of options and worked with me a lot. From what I heard, somewhat special arrangement were made for me to take that job, because they weren't supposed to have one at our RSS. Now, whether they actually made arrangements and that was a simple typo, or if he did in fact pull a fast one remains to be seen. PT was moved from monday to today because of Memorial Day, so I'm showing up early to talk to him.

I'm a fan of smaller birds, and the Huey has always been a favorite of mine. The new Yankee Huey looks dynamite as well, but from what I've researched it only has 2 crew members (Pilot, Co-Pilot)? How can this be correct?

That's because it isn't. We've seen those models out here several times, I have pictures if you want, and they always have a crew chief. Especially considering the gun they had hanging out the side! Don't expect to get something like that. Those seats are usually for the guys who several hundred hours. One I talked to, a GySgt was already well into four digits for hours. If you do get Huey's and you want to do something like that or be part of a development then kick a ton of tail your first enlistment, and pester everyone with some authority to get you there. There is never a garuntee, but it certainly helps if you're the top dog.

onux16
09-03-08, 08:44 PM
My apologies if I came off too blunt about the contract situation. I have spoken to several poolees off the forums who have been screwed over, and I wanted to get my message across clearly that you...

Tripwire42
09-03-08, 09:02 PM
Alright, false alarm. Talked to Sgt Fields, and after MEPS they had to re-send my paperwork to get the AG designation on my second contract. AB is "Aircraft Basic" or something like that, basically anything to do with rotary or fixed wing. Hell, I could've been a fuel tank painter with that designation. On the board in the office above SSgt Simms' desk, I have AG clearly written by my name. SSgt Simms writes those on the board after he pulls them off of his computer, which has the same info they see at MEPS when writing contracts. After confirming with Sgt Fields that I wouldn't sign my second contract unless AG was on it, he told me he wouldn't either. He's definitely got my back. Appreciate all of your help, fellas.

On the note of the UH-1Y, I mentioned it today and got the response that the site probably wasn't updated... Crew chief is always necessary, but don't expect a job on one. They probably can't confirm the required crew because it's not in service yet basically.

Dolamyte
09-04-08, 01:23 AM
Read my above post on this, but to reiterate. Like I said and so has Onux, every Rotary Wing requires, and this is the minimum, One Pilot, One Co-Pilot and One Crew Chief. That is the the bare needed as designated by the NATOPS manual.

And as far as the Y/Z models, they are most certainly in service. They were conceived primarily for supporting the MV-22. No Rotary Wing can come even close to the cruise speed of the Osprey, and the Gunships are used as weapons support for the ill armed Osprey (soon to be corrected). The upgrades allow it to keep pace a bit better, along with some other little goodies. Again pictures can be provided of both on one of their many visits out here to 29. Worry about Boot Camp first, then being designated a Crew Chief before you start getting crazy about an Air Frame, and in no way and I discouraging you from dreaming just keep it in check and realistic. If you want to be assigned an Experimental or Test and Eval Model you have to bring something to the table for them to want to choose you. As a maybe soon to be fresh boot you offer very little for expirience or air frame knowledge. This can be applied to all MOS's and skill sets.

Onux, a quick question if you don't mind. How does NATTC and SERE divy up class seats during the holiday months. As it's looking my reenlistment should be kicking off in a few weeks, and I'm trying to plan for moving and spooling up the guys who have to replace me. Are there any seats that class up between October and November? And if not or at least for me, what is the possibility of getting out there with a Squadron fot OJT?

Mikewebe
09-04-08, 03:33 AM
I'm a straight 0300 and I got to tell you listen to Dolomyte, but look at what your asking. You don't finish training and become a CC. I been on more choppers than I care to count, some in bad places. Glad you got some things cleared up, but understand by the time you finish school things can be drastically different. And then you got life to live wherever you are stationed, and guys fighting for those jobs. Good luck

onux16
09-04-08, 04:52 AM
Since there aren't any federal holidays in October and November other than Thanksgiving (and the Ball!), I'm going to assume they'll have classes available. I went to aircrew school after the Christmas/New Years break and SERE in March, so I can't tell you much about how the classes are divvied.

If you class up in Pensacola during the October/November months, I can imagine you won't class up with SERE until after the holidays or finish just before, but nothing is set in stone, and really, I'm just taking educational guesses about this.

Tripwire42
09-04-08, 10:12 AM
I guess because I have Poolee under my name I'm not allowed to show some ambition. Fellas, the only reason I care to even think about having a certain airframe right now is to give myself something more to push forward to later. Yes, running PFT's and the like I can think about getting the EGA, but what about swim quals? SERE? Thinking about being on a nice airframe is what's going to allow me to push myself to finish and qualify for Aircrew.
I understand my airframe really depends on the Need of the Corps, and I'm fine with that... but for now, I'll dream.

Dolamyte
09-04-08, 03:22 PM
I guess because I have Poolee under my name I'm not allowed to show some ambition. Fellas, the only reason I care to even think about having a certain airframe right now is to give myself something more to push forward to later. Yes, running PFT's and the like I can think about getting the EGA, but what about swim quals? SERE? Thinking about being on a nice airframe is what's going to allow me to push myself to finish and qualify for Aircrew.
I understand my airframe really depends on the Need of the Corps, and I'm fine with that... but for now, I'll dream.

Well first off, go ahead and check that little attitude at the door next time before logging on (regarding your first sentence). Please read back real quick to what I said. Dream all you like, just keep it in check and realistic. At no point did I say don't do it, we all do, otherwise people wouldn't have goals and something to work for. All I'm trying to tell you is not to super focus on the idea, because if it doesn't work out the way you thought or hoped, it's only going to lead you to possibly become disgruntled and make life that much harder for you in the end. This is something that has ruined quite a few good Marines even though it is very preventable. There are many trials and tribulations ahead for you, and having something to work for makes life better, but baby steps. Earn that Eagle Globe and Anchor first!

Dolamyte
09-04-08, 03:28 PM
Since there aren't any federal holidays in October and November other than Thanksgiving (and the Ball!), I'm going to assume they'll have classes available. I went to aircrew school after the Christmas/New Years break and SERE in March, so I can't tell you much about how the classes are divvied.

If you class up in Pensacola during the October/November months, I can imagine you won't class up with SERE until after the holidays or finish just before, but nothing is set in stone, and really, I'm just taking educational guesses about this.

Yea no one really has an answer, and I'm just curious because they aren't very long at all, what 28 days and 12 or something there abouts. I just want to get this stuff started and over with so I can get flying and deploy. How long would you say it would take with all the schools and I check in with my new unit if I started in January? Is August unrealistic? any any idea if OJT is available if I have a few couple of months before a seat opens up?

onux16
09-04-08, 04:24 PM
Unless the time you spent in Avionics lands you an accelerated mechanics course, you can expect the entire set of courses to take a minimum of nine months.

If you are starting in January, then August is unrealistic. I started right after New Years and graduated flight school in mid-October, and that's without any delays during and in-between training.

Wyoming
09-04-08, 07:41 PM
Crew Chief - Stateside - While flyng, it is hours and hours of sheer boredom, unless it is a QA/QC flight and the HAC, being in a good mood, lets you fly left seat. That is generally the only time you fly with 2 on board. All of this interspersed with the occasion 'Oops' or 'Aw ****'. This generally happens when you lose an engine over Saddleback, or you have to dump an external. Autorotating with a new pilot in training was also a thrill. NOT!!

Crew Chief - Overseas (RVN) - Pure excitement at all times. This is where you really get to know the drivers. For what it is worth, I still communicate with many of them by phone, email, and in person, after all these years.

Proud Plankholder of HMM-165 and then to HMM-164.

Dolamyte
09-05-08, 01:09 AM
Unless the time you spent in Avionics lands you an accelerated mechanics course, you can expect the entire set of courses to take a minimum of nine months.

If you are starting in January, then August is unrealistic. I started right after New Years and graduated flight school in mid-October, and that's without any delays during and in-between training.


That's what I figured, just curious because my family has a Kilted Golf tournament ever year and August/September is the time frame for next year. How do they deal with leave and all that. I have about 70 days right now, and there is not chance I'll be able to burn enough to not go over while at school. Also I was kicked out of the barracks a while back, is it possible to collect BAH once I get to new river for Mech and CC school? It's not like I'll be moving after I'm done there. And again, thanks for all the great info you've provided that last couple of months now!

onux16
09-05-08, 05:10 AM
The school houses prefer Marines take leave during 96's and holidays or if there is a genuine emergency that requires your absence only because the kiddos need that time to learn the course. I'd imagine you'd have some leeway in flight school where it's a self-taught course and not through formal periods of instruction.

As for the BAH thing, I wouldn't know. I mean, I applied for it just for kicks a few weeks ago and got denied by the SgtMaj three days later. (the fact it got approved by my Line Chief was more than enough for me). I do know you'd get your own barracks room, though, since you're a Sergeant; they wouldn't room you with anyone unless it was with another NCO, and NCO's in the schoolhouse aren't very common.

Dolamyte
09-05-08, 05:17 AM
The school houses prefer Marines take leave during 96's and holidays or if there is a genuine emergency that requires your absence only because the kiddos need that time to learn the course. I'd imagine you'd have some leeway in flight school where it's a self-taught course and not through formal periods of instruction.

As for the BAH thing, I wouldn't know. I mean, I applied for it just for kicks a few weeks ago and got denied by the SgtMaj three days later. (the fact it got approved by my Line Chief was more than enough for me). I do know you'd get your own barracks room, though, since you're a Sergeant; they wouldn't room you with anyone unless it was with another NCO, and NCO's in the schoolhouse aren't very common.

Can you explain the Flight School part a bit more? It's self taught in what way and what then can I expect for PT, daily activities, scheduling for night flying ect? Is there any sort of schedule and is it something that I can control the pace of if I want to finish up sooner rather than later?

I want to get a better handle on this BAH thing for the school phase, if I were to call VMMT, is there someone in particular I should ask for or just talk to the ODO or instructor?

Artemis
09-05-08, 08:29 PM
Crew Chief - Stateside - While flyng, it is hours and hours of sheer boredom, unless it is a QA/QC flight and the HAC, being in a good mood, lets you fly left seat. That is generally the only time you fly with 2 on board. All of this interspersed with the occasion 'Oops' or 'Aw ****'. This generally happens when you lose an engine over Saddleback, or you have to dump an external. Autorotating with a new pilot in training was also a thrill. NOT!!

Crew Chief - Overseas (RVN) - Pure excitement at all times. This is where you really get to know the drivers. For what it is worth, I still communicate with many of them by phone, email, and in person, after all these years.

Proud Plankholder of HMM-165 and then to HMM-164.




Wow Al this just goes to show that it has been a few years since you have been in a bird. In my 5 years I never saw a plane leave the line with any less than 3 Marines. 2 pilots and a crew chief but usually it is more than that. Since you have your boots that are just finishing up school that need to learn the ropes. Then there are always your AO's that have to get there hours in, or VIP flights and it goes on and on and on.

As for AC school depending on how long it takes you to class up and whether or not you pass every test the first time around it will take you 9 to 12 months depending on your platform.

Wyoming
09-05-08, 09:17 PM
Danielle, it ain't been that long at all.

Why just last night I was flying high, with me chippy, at the controls.


BTW, I said a QA/QC flight and added 'generally'. Otherwise, and you are right, our cross countries and night flights were 'generally' full of hour grabbers.

onux16
09-06-08, 12:59 AM
I can only describe flight school the way I went through it, but I'd imagine it's the same for all platforms. The first few weeks are groundside -- you're relearning everything taught to you in mech school with additional information added to it, and you're tested on the information each week. Afterwards, you receive your Plane Captain syllabus and start hitting the books. At the same time, you'll start flying. A flight schedule is drawn up by a flight planner, and it will tell you the kind of flight you'll be on. This gives you one night to study up on that flight so that you're prepared for the next day. The instructors are supposed to introduce you to the duties and guide and teach you, but as you progress, more and more responsibility will be on you.

While the instructors are one-on-one with you in relation to flights, the PC syllabus is all you. You need to study the information, then approach an instructor to prove your knowledge of it. He puts his signature on the paper to show proof you know the knowledge and properly lectured the topic. The instructors won't come to you and say "hey, we're going to sign you off on ____."

Towards the end of the course, you have several major tests. There's the NATOPS knowledge test, the component walkaround in which you name all the components on your aircraft and where they are, the Daily and Turnaround Inspection test, and two final flight tests. I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting something, but really, everything you should have learned will be tested.

Come to think of it, Dolamyte, since the school's are so short in duration, I doubt they'll grant you BAH until you get to flight school. Even then, to save money, I'm sure the command will simply stick you in a room by yourself. It's worth a shot, though.

Dolamyte
09-06-08, 03:00 AM
I can only describe flight school the way I went through it, but I'd imagine it's the same for all platforms. The first few weeks are groundside -- you're relearning everything taught to you in mech school with additional information added to it, and you're tested on the information each week. Afterwards, you receive your Plane Captain syllabus and start hitting the books. At the same time, you'll start flying. A flight schedule is drawn up by a flight planner, and it will tell you the kind of flight you'll be on. This gives you one night to study up on that flight so that you're prepared for the next day. The instructors are supposed to introduce you to the duties and guide and teach you, but as you progress, more and more responsibility will be on you.

While the instructors are one-on-one with you in relation to flights, the PC syllabus is all you. You need to study the information, then approach an instructor to prove your knowledge of it. He puts his signature on the paper to show proof you know the knowledge and properly lectured the topic. The instructors won't come to you and say "hey, we're going to sign you off on ____."

Towards the end of the course, you have several major tests. There's the NATOPS knowledge test, the component walkaround in which you name all the components on your aircraft and where they are, the Daily and Turnaround Inspection test, and two final flight tests. I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting something, but really, everything you should have learned will be tested.

Come to think of it, Dolamyte, since the school's are so short in duration, I doubt they'll grant you BAH until you get to flight school. Even then, to save money, I'm sure the command will simply stick you in a room by yourself. It's worth a shot, though.

Onux, thank you, that answered quite a few questions. I'm not worried about BAH for Pensacola or SERE, but all the other schools are in New River. I'll give the command a call and see what they have to say about it all.

Regarding NATOPS and all the other flying, is there something in particular that I should look out for? How often do you fly while in school, and if so, after all the ground work is there much in the way of classroom time? It is like other schools, wake up PT, goto school, chow, more class, study, bed routine? Or is it, check the flight sked for tomorrow, study at home, brief, pre flight, fly, and post filghts and briefs the next day, rinse repeat?

onux16
09-11-08, 05:09 AM
Here's a small article on H-53 crew chiefs, but it applies to all platforms. It explains the duties a lot more briefly than I could =)
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/a/crewchiefs.htm

CoryBrandon19
09-20-08, 02:46 PM
I'm currently enlisted to go to bootcamp next month. I ship out in 37 days. I have an AG Contract and know a little bit about it. I know that I will eventually become a crew chief after all my training, but I don't have the first clue about any of the training invovled. After bootcamp, where do I go? How long will I be there? Where will I go after that? My brother is stationed in San Diego. He is a 53 mech. What are the odds of me getting stationed out there as well? I appreciate everyones help.

onux16
09-20-08, 03:27 PM
CoryBrandon19, I know there are 9 pages worth of reading on this board, but if you read through them, the answers to your questions are all there. Page 3 has some good information.

CoryBrandon19
09-21-08, 12:14 AM
but like I said. the training isn't hard. most of the people that bolo out have it happen due to medical.

I don't know anyone that DOR'd


Why is the medical so tuff to pass???

onux16
09-21-08, 07:37 AM
There are several reasons. Most of the time, people lied or didn't reveal certain serious medical conditions while they were a poolee and the condition came back at some point during training (ie, bad knees, broken bones that never fully healed to name a few) Another reason could be something completely out of our hands like poor vision. In fact, when I had my flight physical two weeks ago, I was nearly disqualified from flying because I have terrible depth perception. And back in Pensacola, one of my ears barely performed during "valsalva" -- it's when you cover your nose and try to forcefully breathe out of it until your ears pop.
There's a lot of biology and physics behind what happens to the body at higher altitudes. That's why we, as aircrew, are restricted to the medications we're allowed to take. As a precaution, we're not supposed to have more than 12 oz. of coffee or take tylenol before a flight, among other things. It's best to be disqualified than be hurt while on the job, you know?

CoryBrandon19
09-21-08, 12:07 PM
I guess I can understand that. You have been a big help and I appreciate it. I now have 36 days until I leave and I cant wait to go. I just hope that I dont find out that there is something wrong with my body that I never knew about.

AWDORRIS
09-22-08, 03:12 PM
Does anyone know if you can live at home if you are married during mech school and flight school? I know that in P-cola and SERE that wouldn't work but I am already stationed at Lejeune and am trying to Lat Move. Just kind of curious if I am going to have to live in the barracks while my wife lives 10 minutes away? Thanks for your help.

onux16
09-27-08, 05:53 PM
It's something you need to talk to your school's command about. It's a relaxed environment and as long as you stay out of trouble and have a Plan B in emergencies (backup ride to/from school, for example), I don't think the command would consider it an issue. That's just my opinion, though.

mjs2000us
10-03-08, 08:21 PM
Hello,

I have signed the contract for Aircrew/Mechanic/Navigator and have spoken to my recruiter about my possibilities as far as my specific job. He says that I will probably make 'Crew Chief' or'Navigator'...however, I haven't found anything specific about the 'Navigator' position. Just general info, and from my findings this position is becoming obsolete. Does anyone know of any 'Navigators' in the Marines? If so, is the training similiar to 'Crew Chief'?

onux16
10-04-08, 01:27 AM
Those three things -- Aircrew, Mechanic, and Navigator -- all make up the modern day Marine Corps crew chief. A crew chief has the naval qualification to fly as aircrew in the back of a helicopter, has training as a mechanic on his platform and works with the mechanics during daily maintenance, and assists the pilots with navigating from Point A to B. If you have the AG contract from MEPS, this is the job you can expect.
Also, read the previous posts on this board to learn a bit about loadmasters. When you go to Pensacola, you'll be assigned duties on C-130's as a loadmaster or as a crew chief on helicopters.

lagrand
11-22-08, 02:46 AM
Hi Corporal Onux16, I just read through all 10 pages of this thread and WOW! Good stuff! Now I do have a few questions of my own...I see the phrase "Plane Captain" mentioned several times along with it's partner, the "syllabus". What does being a Plane Captain qualify you to do specifically as opposed to someone who isn't one? What are the chances of deployment to a combat zone as a Crew Chief? I, personally, would not want to stay stateside my whole career and would like to be deployed but didn't know the chances of being able to do so. One more thing, as a Crew Chief who is deployed, are they often volunteers to go on convoys or patrols with the ground units? Just curious! Thanks for the help and I'm sure I'll have more questions later on.

- LaGrand

Sgt Jim
11-22-08, 08:18 AM
Bigal,all i got to do was get some flight time as a hyd mech.no crew chief mos on 46s

onux16
11-22-08, 09:41 AM
good questions, lagrand. I went to a non-deployable unit straight out of school, so I can't give you much information about deployments. However, I feel it's safe to assume that a crew chief can not...

lagrand
11-23-08, 12:27 AM
Thank you Corporal. One thing that confuses me though. When you say "why have a guy fly solo if he can't land...", obviously the Crew Chief cannot fly solo because he is not an Officer. But as you mentioned, a Crew Chief CAN fly solo if he is a Plane Captain. It may just be my misunderstanding. I apologize if it is and I hope you can help me clear that up! Thanks and God bless.

- LaGrand

onux16
11-23-08, 08:07 AM
Ever had to take a flight to go on vacation? Usually you'd come back, someone would ask where you went, and you'd reply "Oh, I flew to the Bahamas," or something to that extent. No, you didn't fly there, but you did ride in back. That's the same idea with Crew Chiefs and AO's.

When a C/C flies solo, it means there is no other enlisted crewmember in the back assisting him with duties. And when a C/C lands the aircraft, it's him calling out obstacles and approximate height off the deck while the pilots do the stick manipulations to physically put the wheels on the ground.

When thinking of air crewmen, it's best to think of everybody as a team. Yes, I may be calling out obstacles and the pilots are positioning the aircraft, but essentially we're landing the aircraft together.

Wyoming
11-23-08, 10:30 PM
Bigal,all i got to do was get some flight time as a hyd mech.no crew chief mos on 46s

Having a bubble chaser and/or twidget on board was better than a tin snipper.

They would come in REAL handy iffen you had to make a 'mergency landing and fix something. Tin snippers generally hated you once you returned and they had to patch it all back together.

BTW, Welcome Home Jim!!

mwc4892
05-20-09, 09:40 PM
OK. So I am asking for advice. I graduated from Naccs 2 weeks ago and leave for SERE tomorrow. I got orders for 53s to my surprise and i was very happy with it. My med records say fixed wing only tho. Should i just try and slip though the cracks and hope i can get outa flight school so the vision requirements arent so strict or tell somebody? i just dont wanna get screwed and be told im a mechanic now after i get outa mech school or something.

Since im posting here and fresh outa naccs ill answer any questions people have about the school. Hueys are pretty backed up right now and people havent gotten orders for them in a long time. most people are getting v22s. Naccs exploded when i got here and there was 200+ marines on hold. I was on backlog pt for 2 months then got put on med hold for hearing. Luckily i didnt get dropped for the additional 3 months i spent there doing nothing on med hold. learn your strokes and beable to tread water using the frog kick for 2 mins and beable to float for 9. the only tested stroke now is the breast stroke in the 8th swim qual. When you come here you will be put on barracks support for about 2-3months before youll classup for swim build and pt with the schoolhouse. I enjoyed the school alot and the pt is challenging but if your on pt backlog for awhile its easy in class. (do not get lazy if your put on med hold. i didnt pt hardly at all and paid the price when i got to class.) Don't tell medical if youve drank underage unless you absolutely have to. i got a couple friends that are waiting for psyc evals to see if they are alcoholics. One was proven to be a drunk and has to attend AA before he gos to class. Hope this was useful and if anyone has questions dont be afraid to ask. If anyone can answer my question it would be greatly appreciated.

RHart16
11-07-10, 08:08 PM
Not trying to restart an old thread, but I greatly appreciate the info in these 10 pages. I received word on my AG contract a few weeks ago. Thank you very much Marines!

Ascendo
12-06-10, 08:58 PM
Such a great amount of information in this thread, thank you very much everybody who've contributed. I'm interested in getting some more details about Crew Chief so I'll be talking to my recruiter soon. However, I was wondering if this is the type of MOS that is really only suitable for those who have prior mechanic knowledge....I'm not very mechanical savvy. Thank you!

Devilpup12390
12-12-10, 09:34 PM
Good evening Marines/Poolee's:

Just wanted to point out that this thread was a tremendous help to me. I'm currently an 1141 (basic electrician) and the opportunity has risen for me to lat-move to 6173/74 in the Active Reserve side, at first I was hesitant but just from reading the information I can already tell this is my kind of MOS. Besides I have always been a UH-1 fan so to get to work on my dream platform would be amazing!

I'll keep everyone posted on the process as I go through it.

Please dismiss my out of date profile info, I'm in the process of getting a mod to update it, I'm actually a LCpl as of 20100303.

Buhler
05-16-11, 10:23 PM
Don't mean to revive an old thread but theres a ton of good info in here.

Also, are those vision requirements with or without glasses?

I have somewhere around 20/100 vision uncorrected, but have 20/20 with glasses. Also, are there any crew chiefs on here that are still active on the forums? If you don't mind I'd love to pm you and grill you for info.

Thanks a lot Marines,

Poolee Buhler

topgun305
01-04-12, 02:07 AM
I have searched the internet and gotten face-time with several enlisted Marines, and this is the best Marine Crew Chief resource that seems to be in existence. A huge thanks to all who contributed, and I hope to catch some of you in the fleet.

topgun305
01-04-12, 09:42 AM
from onux16:

"@devilpup, get that info updated!

@Buhler, I'm about seven months late in writing this, but as far as I know, you're vision is good to go. Update your info, too.

@Ascendo, not sure if you enlisted yet, but this job does not require prior mechanical knowledge. The Corps will teach you everything you need to know. Afterall, must you have prior experience dropping explosive shells in a tube to become a mortarman?

@Topgun, when I was a poolee and signed the AG contract, I had no clue what aircrew was. The only information I could find was the MOS section of About.com. That didn't cut it. So I, along with the help of many other aircrew Marines, have helped update this thread over the years to make it what it is today. I speak for all of us when I say that we are glad the information has helped all of you, and I'm sure it will continue doing so. Stay motivated, keep your eye on the goal, and graduate boot camp first!

Semper Fi.
--Sgt Mahon"

Lisa 23
01-04-12, 10:38 AM
from onux16:

"@devilpup, get that info updated!

@Buhler, I'm about seven months late in writing this, but as far as I know, you're vision is good to go. Update your info, too.

@Ascendo, not sure if you enlisted yet, but this job does not require prior mechanical knowledge. The Corps will teach you everything you need to know. Afterall, must you have prior experience dropping explosive shells in a tube to become a mortarman?

@Topgun, when I was a poolee and signed the AG contract, I had no clue what aircrew was. The only information I could find was the MOS section of About.com. That didn't cut it. So I, along with the help of many other aircrew Marines, have helped update this thread over the years to make it what it is today. I speak for all of us when I say that we are glad the information has helped all of you, and I'm sure it will continue doing so. Stay motivated, keep your eye on the goal, and graduate boot camp first!

Semper Fi.
--Sgt Mahon"


Sgt Mahon....
Most Marines aren't allowed to post here in the poolee forum. Only Admin & Mods can do so.
Please DO NOT use a poolees account for posting privileges here in the poolee forum.

topgun305
01-04-12, 10:42 AM
It actually is my account, the Sgt Pm'ed me to post that. Least I could do after all that info he gave.

Lisa 23
01-04-12, 10:55 AM
I moved this topic from the poolee forum to the Ask A Marine forum.
If any Marine would like to continue updating this topic, they can.

sgt morrison
03-30-13, 09:43 PM
crew chief ch-53d, original mos 6100. modified to 6119 (hmht-204 for 3 months then hmh-461)