How many Marines dead?

[iijohnx2kii]

Does anyone know so far how many Marines have died in the war in Iraq?

[WantToBeAMarine]

too many

[Joseph P Carey]

That is a stupid question! It is something that is the result of an operation that must be completed, and to reduce the men that died in combat to numbers is a wrong to them. If one is lost, it is too many, if Five thousand were lost, and the mission were not completed, it would not be enough.

We have been through this once before, and I will not see politicians sell us out again like they did the men of Vietnam, and the people of Vietnam! It is combat, that is what we were trained to do. No man goes into the Marines without the knowledge that he may die on some battle field far from home, and not that many do!

Would you mind telling me what your point is?

[Riven37]

Originally posted by iijohnx2kii
Does anyone know so far how many Marines have died in the war in Iraq?



http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx...if oyu look this site up it will give you all the brakdowns you seek. Gives names, units, dates, place, time, etc.....if this doesn't work let me know.

[jinelson]

Well said Cpl Carey and I agree with you 100% but the young man is a Poolee and I am of the persuasion that the only stupid question is the one not asked. They are due some slack during the learning process we got it. And hopefully he will explain his point to us.

[Joseph P Carey]

You are correct J I Nelson, I just get irritated at a question like that because of past experiences.

Actually, I could find the break-down for services, Marines 468 and Navy 31 Total that died (to 5/7/2005, and it did not break it out as to what were battle inflicted), but I did observe one thing that the Media do not report. Of the total sevices' 1753 deaths, according to the site given by Riven, 1247 US Troops were killed in hostile actions, and 506 died from other causes. And, of the 13189 casualties, this is to include those killed, 6844 were returned to duty within 72 hours of being wounded! All this since March 2003, that is 28 months of warfare. It appears that the Marine's tactics are very sucessful, and keeping down the deaths to a minimum of their personnel, but the Army is taking it on the chin with more than 2/3rds of the death toll!

[drillinstructor]

we lose more people in most cities than we do in Iraq, Our Marines are safer in Iraq than driving our highways in the US.

[Master Sephiroth]

It's better to look at how many sand ******s the Marines wasted.

[outlaw3179]

Alot of Marines have died poolee. To many..........


Semper Fi

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by drillinstructor
we lose more people in most cities than we do in Iraq, Our Marines are safer in Iraq than driving our highways in the US.

I think, Drill Instructor, that we take these numbers seriously, as do you, and you are correct, in any single large city in the USA, with all the finest police protection available that the USA can offer, and no IED or human bombers at work each day, there are still more deaths in a single year than we have lost in 28 months of warfare.

I mean, even if we take the deaths of 468 Marines, we would have to factor off the obligatory 25% of those that were not killed in some sort of combat due to traffic accident, drowning, heart attacks, and all other accidents of daily life in the service, approximately 117, leaving a total of Marine deaths in combat stand at 351 for the 28 month period. I think that most of the Sailors were Corpsmen, and as far as I am concerned they are Marines!

I don't have the actual numbers of Marines that put boots on the ground in Iraq, You might have, but it seems to me, over 28 months of warfare in some very fierce combat in Cites, these are relatively small numbers. I think that your training and the subsequent training of the individual Marine units deserve a great deal of credit here, and add to that the terrific Navy Doctors, and Corpsmen, and Nurses that attend to our wounded. I think the Marines and the Navy are doing another bang up job in the protection of the individual Marine.

The poolee is under the impression that the Marine that goes to Iraq is destine to die, or to be cut to ribbons with some horrible wounds. This is what the Media feed him as he sits and watches the news reports with some trepidation as to what may be his fate in the Marines, and in truth, the relative numbers are low. That is why I thought that this was a stupid question.

Perhaps some investigation into the numbers of what is actual instead of deceptively misleading as printed in the news media, as a promotional for the Marines and the Army would tend to improve the recruitment of personnel. Perhaps you could even make this case to your CO as a suggestion to the proper channels that it may sway public opinion towards support of our troops in this endeavor.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Agent Smith
It's better to look at how many sand ******s the Marines wasted.

With all due respect Agent Smith, there are plenty of those Sand ******'s getting killed each day on our side in this war, and there are members of that group that are US Marines as well. I believe that you are man enough to give an apology for your remarks.

[outlaw3179]

i concur carey

[Master Sephiroth]

I apologize to the ones on our who are on our side. That was out of line, and stupid of me. Those who serve on our side deserve the utmost respect

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Agent Smith
I apologize to the ones on our who are on our side. That was out of line, and stupid of me. Those who serve on our side deserve the utmost respect

I realize that you are a High School Student, and you really know nothing of honor or integrety, but your apology was somewhat akin to Sentaor Durbin's.

Truthfully kid, I come from the South, and in more specific terms, I come from the old South. I was an Irish Catholic boy in an area of Red-neck Klansmen, and if I heard that little ditty of yours once, I heard it a thousand times when I was a boy, as well as the Papist crap leveled at me. I did not mind too much that I had to fight my way to school each day, least wise, until I had finally beaten the best of them, and then they left me alone after that.

I never really liked that word, but perhaps I am just too sensitive a person! After all, all that I have done in my life was be a Marine, get decorated of bravery, get my Purple Hearts, be in a hospital for over a year recoving from my last wound, Go to College on my own and obtain two college degrees, Raise a family by myself when my wife died, and ran the businesses of being a Private Investigator, a bounty hunter, and a Bail Bondsman for the last 30 plus years. I am a real sensitive guy! You know a Touchy-Feelly type of guy, real sensitive!

But, in all that time, I never had to use words like that to show people that I was a tough guy! They already knew about me!

[EDNA TRIMBLE]

no one knowes and how many really care? I am a mom of a former marine , who was not in the corp during war time, but dear god 20 of our marines in two days!! my heart cries for their mothers ,fathers & wives their children. for heavens sake , can't we find some device to locate these road side bombs??? we all live over here safe for now anyway, and by god if i were young again and could try to protect this country I would be there. That dosnt say much for a lot of the young kids hiding behind their parents does it or parents who would tell their boys or girls to let that other kid die for us. this country needs to get its priorities straight and protect our kids with better stuff to fight with than think of flying in space right now, maybe another time. may they all rest in gods hands today.

[Jersey Joe]

It just pi$$es me off to see we lost 14 Marines in an "amphibious
assault vehicle" (as per AP). Why are our people still riding in that make believe tank (appears only Marines, not Army uses that "vehicle")??? I'd love to have Rumsfeld or some congress people travel around Iraq in one of those tin cans--wouldn't be long before those cans got $hit canned (BTW--Rummy travels in well protected civilian contractor "Rhino" vehicle when he "visits" the troops).
I'm not too hot about saving these ragheads "for democracy" but one thing that REALLY ticks me off is seeing the crap they give our Marines while the Army gets the best (same 'ole, same 'ole--some things never change).
Lets hope things get better
Semper Fi

[Joseph P Carey]

Edna, <br />
<br />
These are not children, and they are not kids! I believe that they have earned the right to be called Men and Women, as well as Marines. <br />
<br />
It is a sad couple of days when we have lost 25...

[outlaw3179]

Mrs. Trimble

IED's are the hardest thing to locate. Insurgents are very good at hiding and concealing them. With every month they learn what tactics work and wich ones dont . Iraq is a training ground for anyone whoever had a problem with the United States to come and kill some Americans. Believe me when I say that our men and women try with every possible piece of technology they can think of . They use their eyes , their ears and they use the little hairs that stand on the back of your neck when you know something is not right.
I admire your courage to go to the fight and I 100% fully agree that there are alot of young men and women who dont fully appreciate the sacrifices of so many others. If it was up to me everyone who graduates high school would have a mandatory 2 year enlistment in some service.

Semper Fi

[outlaw3179]

Jersey Joe,

100% fully agree. Do you know how many times we did IED sweeps in Highbacks? every friggin time. Im looking for a bomb with a humvee with no protection . Doesnt make a whole lot of sense.
But as Marines you do as your told and you accomplish the mission, and we did . We hit IEDs and only by the Grace of God did we not lose any Marines.
Im not complaining , all throught Marine history have Marines been given the hardest jobs with the worst equipment . But for Gods sake its the 21st century . We can do a little better.

[CplCrotty]

I agree with Carey. It's almost as if the terrorists *&^%heads had better intel than us. Both situations look like a set-up ambush.

[Joseph P Carey]

Outlaw & Jersey Joe,

I don't care if the Marines are in their underwear, 14 men should not have been stuck in one vehicle! In cities, those vehicles are vulnerable to attack on the left and the right, and over head. They are subject to being stopped by a stalled car, or trapped in a confined area from the front and the rear.

There are Transmission scanners available that can flood an area with all different frequency of radio signals, or at the very least block all different signals to an area. I know the USA has these devices. Something like this can detonated the IEDs or at least stop the signals. Why are they not being used?

I never liked the idea of Marines in vehicles. Perhaps I am Old Corps enough to understand that one of the Marines' best weapons is his feet!

From what I have seen, these RPGs that are used are not the most accurate of weapons, and made less so with quick fire. It seems to me that the bigger the target the better the chance of a hit. Maybe smaller and more mobile vehicles with variable speeds are the answer, if vehicles are needed that is? A vehicle that is easily maneuvered through traffic and obstructions, and around blocking vehicles would be a better fit for this kind of warfare.

We used to have M 79 Grenade Launches in the Squad, in RVN, which were single round fired weapons that were capable of hurling a 40 mm grenade round at targets from 50 meters to 300 meters with some accuracy, perhaps these would be the best weapon against some of these Kami Kazi Car Bombers, if you put two or three of them in a squad as a secondary weapon for the members of the Fireteams, it might help things more while the Marines are on their feet on the street. I know some of the rifles are rigged for this, but apparently they are not getting much use, either because the ammunition is not available, or the ammunition is not carried by the troops. Perhps, Marines are relying too much on Technology, and not enough on being Marines!

[Namvet67]

When a Marine dies, a part of me does too! Our brothers are in a very hostile enviroment and they know it! Death is part of being in the military and the way these Marines are dying is something that is hard to swallow but......these are the risks that they are willing to take. They are following orders and they are doing it without thinking about it. This is not too unlike Vietnam. It was the booby traps, land mines etc., that killed most of the troups in Nam. It wasn't the bullet that had your name on it that you had to be concerned about.....it was the one that had "to whom it may concern" on it! Saepius Exertus, Semper Fidelis, Frater Infinitas United States Marine Corps

[Osotogary]

Mr. Carey,
Doggonit...you just make too much sense.
For a matter of reference, how was the urban warfare in the city of Hue fought by Marines? Were their "lessons learned" that could be appliable to this conflict? Do you think that there are those of influence who still believe that wars should be fought like WWII?
I'm as ticked off as anybody about the latest loss of American lives. God forbid that it was due to someones negligence. I am just gonna be pizzed off for a while and I suppose that I will not be satisfied with anybodies explaination as to how or why these events took place for some time to come.
May the fallen rest in peace.

[outlaw3179]

Mr. Carey,

While it is true that some IED's are remote detonated many are triggered by different things. Trip wires, victim detonated , and sometimes the very jammer that you are reffering to is triggering them. All you can do is hope that when and IED goes off , you hear it. Because if you hear it then it means that your not dead.
What I am saying is that there is no reason to send Marines into the hunt and to give them inadequate vehicles.
If theres anywhere you want to be when an IED goes off , it is on a 7 ton. Those trucks can take a hit . But to think that Marines who have been in the fight for over 3 years now have not said to themselves " hey, maybe we should stagger it out". is stupid !
No matter what you do , it is an everchanging enemy and they are good at what they do. When you stagger it out they will daisy chain 155's to maximize kills. They will stagger them between 50 meters to 100 meters. Dont think that Marines are stupid enough just to walk around in clumps hoping that the enemy doesnt kill them .
Its pretty easy to be the Monday morning quaterback and analyze what you think should be done but believe me . Marines are out there doing it and doing it well.
Mr. Carey it is war and it is combat I know you know combat better than most . Marines are going to die . its that simple . But if you equip Marines with an uparmored hardback fully sealed up you can minimize the threat to the Marines. This is not some newfangled technology that is not available. Every soldier in Iraq if they have to move from point A to point B wont go anywhere without uparmored's and a couple of Bradleys. But the leathernecks will.
Now is that because were harder or is that because we dont have the vehicles we should?

Semper Fi

[Joseph P Carey]

You say that IED's are detonated in many ways, and that is common knowledge, but for the most part the radio frequency device is the most commonly used, and the thought of using the Frequency transmitter is to blow up the devices, hopefully while they are being placed into the positions by the insurgents. To jam the signal is more than likely to set it off also, but not when the vehicle is over it. To the detriment of the Iraqis, it will go off when others are around it, and not Marines. As far as trip wires are concerned that too is a possibility, but how do you feel the wire, to avoid it at thirty-five Miles an Hour in an enclosed vehicle?

As far as the Monday Morning Quarter backing, True that is a very easy assessment, but for the fact that when I ran point for my unit I would have to dismantle those booby traps in Vietnam, when there were no engineers available to do so. I had to spot the signs of traps while looking for the enemy to my left and my right while in doing so. I have seen all sorts of things used as traps including a Bamboo Viper hanging from its tail with a bamboo sheath around the back foot half of the snake's body with the working end of its apparatus set at approximately 5'6" off the path, and a more aggravated snake you never saw in your life, it struck at everything that moved below it. I had to look for the tell tale signs of sand that slipping through the bamboo mat that covered the Panji pits on the paths, and the signs left by the villagers that a device was in place left there by the villagers to protect their own people.

If they were not dismantled, much like one we found at a fence opening one time! People get hurt. In the case in point, we called back for 'Engineers up', and man by man we walked through the gate avoiding the trap, while we waited for the Engineers to arrive. It was not long after we went through the gate and set up in a perimeter of the area that we heard an explosion. Apparently, the only man in the Battalion that did not get the word that a mine was in place at the gate was Colonel Charles H. Bodley (May 28, 1966), when he forced open the gate to go through it, hence the cause of the explosion. I believe he lost his leg.

I do know a little bit about IEDs! I also know they are easy to find if you are looking for them on foot and not driving over them at any rate of speed in a vehicle. If we saw that the device was a large bomb, like an artillery shell. We just got back some distance from the trap, and we shot it with an M79 round. It usually announced that we were in the area, but it was always good to see who came to check on the results of the explosion.

[TazMatt]

Carey, I agree with you on the fact that something should be done but I take offense when you said send back to supply.To me that means you dont think supply people are capable of leading people into combat or that their job is easy to do.Without supply you wouldn't be able to do the things you need to do with the proper equipment so if you will please don't knock supply. Sgt. Matt 3051 Basic Warehouse U.S.M.C. 69-75

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by TazMatt
Carey, I agree with you on the fact that something should be done but I take offense when you said send back to supply.To me that means you dont think supply people are capable of leading people into combat or that their job is easy to do.Without supply you wouldn't be able to do the things you need to do with the proper equipment so if you will please don't knock supply. Sgt. Matt 3051 Basic Warehouse U.S.M.C. 69-75

With all due respect Taz, I have not seen, much to my chagrin, a Supply Sergeant leading his collection of clerks into many a battle armed with requisition forms in triplicate for serviceable equipment. Don't get me wrong, for what gear we ever had, I was extremely satisfied with Supply! After all, without supply we would have been in the field with nothing buy our skivvies, the only problem was, we had no skivvies on us in Vietnam!

All joking aside, I know that you guys had a difficult job, and you really felt like you were not treated well or respected by us Grunts, but you will have to admit, that unless the defenses of the base went down pretty fast, you guys would have had to of cleaned off the packing grease off of your rifles in order to fire in your own defense. In truth, you were not supposed to defend yourself. That was our job! You were suppose to supply us with what we needed to defend you, and you did your job!

What I meant in my statement was that there are other jobs in the Marines that serve the effort as well as the Grunts, and if one can not do the job in one MOS, maybe, he can do the job and serve the Corps better in a more task oriented department of the Marines, not many men get killed by giving out the wrong suspender straps.

[Accord]

Originally posted by Jersey Joe
It just pi$$es me off to see we lost 14 Marines in an "amphibious
assault vehicle" (as per AP). Why are our people still riding in that make believe tank (appears only Marines, not Army uses that "vehicle")??? I'd love to have Rumsfeld or some congress people travel around Iraq in one of those tin cans--wouldn't be long before those cans got $hit canned (BTW--Rummy travels in well protected civilian contractor "Rhino" vehicle when he "visits" the troops).
I'm not too hot about saving these ragheads "for democracy" but one thing that REALLY ticks me off is seeing the crap they give our Marines while the Army gets the best (same 'ole, same 'ole--some things never change).
Lets hope things get better
Semper Fi
The new EFV (Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle) which is going to replace the AAV by 2008 is supposed to prevent most of these horrible incidents, it will have the same protection and armor as an M1A1 Abrams with speed and maneuverability unlike any other vehicle.

It's just a shame the process can't be sped up for the EFV to be introduced sooner.

[Joseph P Carey]

Accord,

It is all a matter of budget! The US Army gets a rather large Budget, and the Marines get a very small budget! I complained a lot of the equipment we had in Vietnam, but I also understood that the Marines get the last of the offerings. It has nothing to do with the equipment, rather it has to do with using what we have. I think the Marines use what they have more efficiently than does any other service.

The truth of the matter is, with the deaths of these 20 Reservists in the two different incidents, with the exception of the two sniper units, which I can not under stand at all, this vehicle was on a roadway and the vehicle was detonated under the vehicle, which turned over this 55 ton vehicle on its back, and there was no escape for the Marines and their interpreter from inside the vehicle. The only thing that could have saved these Marines, even if they were in a tank, would have been that the tanks usually have an under door for escape. I still say there should not have been 14 personnel in the vehicle. The risks are just too great, that like in this incident, the lost of a squad of men would only take one IED to wipe out the whole unit, as it did!

The lose of the 13 Marines and their interpreter was regrettable, but it is understandable, when so many Marines are loaded into only one target. I don't care what kind of vehicle they were in, it would not have changed the outcome when the vehicle caught fire and was turned on its back like a turtle with no chance of escape for the personnel inside.

[christine_06]

i belive that there are no stupid questions, but i also belive that it doesn't matter how many marines have died because 1 is too many and for those who have died may they rest in peace and always be remembered!

[Riven37]

Originally posted by iijohnx2kii
Does anyone know so far how many Marines have died in the war in Iraq?


if you try this site http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx you will get a complete death list plus the site has all deaths by month, area, etc... but not by unit. This site is an offical coalitions site.

[Riven37]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey
Accord,

It is all a matter of budget! The US Army gets a rather large Budget, and the Marines get a very small budget! I complained a lot of the equipment we had in Vietnam, but I also understood that the Marines get the last of the offerings. It has nothing to do with the equipment, rather it has to do with using what we have. I think the Marines use what they have more efficiently than does any other service.

The truth of the matter is, with the deaths of these 20 Reservists in the two different incidents, with the exception of the two sniper units, which I can not under stand at all, this vehicle was on a roadway and the vehicle was detonated under the vehicle, which turned over this 55 ton vehicle on its back, and there was no escape for the Marines and their interpreter from inside the vehicle. The only thing that could have saved these Marines, even if they were in a tank, would have been that the tanks usually have an under door for escape. I still say there should not have been 14 personnel in the vehicle. The risks are just too great, that like in this incident, the lost of a squad of men would only take one IED to wipe out the whole unit, as it did!

The lose of the 13 Marines and their interpreter was regrettable, but it is understandable, when so many Marines are loaded into only one target. I don't care what kind of vehicle they were in, it would not have changed the outcome when the vehicle caught fire and was turned on its back like a turtle with no chance of escape for the personnel inside.



Call it man, It was Indian Company 3rd Battalion 25 Marines out of Ohio who lost 20 young Marines in a 2 day incidents. Half of Indian Company is from my area. A Marine wife still waits to hear if her husband was one of those Marines.