Courts-Martial?

[Lake0300]

Been reading the Guidebook. Just wanna make sure I understood this correctly.

If you're accused of something, and given a non-judcial punishment, you can refuse the punishment. Then the case will be taken to a Summary Courts-Martial. Where you can then refuse the Summary Courts-Martial. Which would push the case to a Special or Generarl Courts-Martial. Do I have that correct? If not, please explain. If so, why would anyone refuse non-judicial punishment? How often is non-judicial punishment carried out instead of a courts-martial? Second, why would anyone refuse a Summary Courts-Martial? Lastly, would you choose if your case went on to a Special or General Courts-Martial? Or is that decision made by someone else? I would assume that anything worth non-judicial punishment would never make it to a General Courts-Martial.

If someone could clear this up for me I would appreciate it.

-Lake

[enviro]

NJP is designed for minor offenses. A Marine keeps showing up for work late, so maybe he needs a reminder of how things are supposed to work. His NCOIC (Non Commissioned Officer in Charge) will...

[cjwright90]

Plan on screwing up Lake?

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

Plan on screwing up to Lake isn't a good question. Of course he is, I think he is just testing the waters to try and see what he can get away with.

Actually, it is a good question in that it hasn't been talked about here before, and it is in my Recruit Knowledge book. I don't know how important it is to someone getting ready to become a Marine, but it was new.

And Enviro, great answer. I don't think I could add anything to it other than mention that Special and General Courts Martial are felony convictions while Summary Courts Martial and NJP are misdemeanors. You may have said that and I just missed it though.

[Lake0300]

Originally posted by cjwright90
Plan on screwing up Lake?

J
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Knowledge
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-Lake

[sgt.lane]

I think some old fashioned ha-bu office hours would be in order to get him squared away==============

[Lake0300]

Also, Enviro - thank you VERY much for the response. Cleared up quite a bit for me. Thanks.

Echo_Four, you see last nights episode of Drew Carey? Quite a riot.. ugly little guy, aint he? :thumbup: LOL!


-Lake

[jinelson]

To Sgt Lane and the rest of my brothers who this pollie has consistently ppssed off:

I have attempted to wing this poolie but to no avail. He does not consider recipricating to my PM's as I have to his, thus as we all know we have the Mother Of All S-Birds attempting to infiltrate and pollute our beloved Corps in time of war as he is self oriented and has no idea of what it is to be a Marine, nor a desire to live up to the expectations of honor the of becoming a United States Marine. Therefore I wash my hands of further mentoring in his case and strongly suggest ha-bu office hours are in order to square him away but also I feel that he is a lost cause.

LAKE - be advised that when aboard MCRD San Diego last week I accomplished my mission as I told you I would, but also be advised that you need to do some serious soul searching and terminate your contract while you still can.

[cjwright90]

Ha bu office hours, back yard justice, same effect. Plus by default he is a Browns fan!

[DSchmitke]

Blanket Party!!!!!!!!!!!!

[enviro]

Excuse my ignorance, as I may not be fully aprised of the situation, but I think we should reserve judgement and let the system work its magic.

If a Marine is truely untrainable, the system will kick in to take care of it. I'd be willing to guess that 90% of the failure of Marines rests with the leadership (or lack thereof) of that Marine.

I spent my entire Marine Corps career working in my secodary MOS as an Environmental Compliance Officer. Because the MOS is secondary, I did not receive Marines randomly from the system. Each unit that was served by our program had to give up one Marine for a year. Now, do you think that when I ask for Marine from a unit they are going to send me their best? I don't think so. I got what was perceived as their worst.

Through good leadership, these "sh|tbirds" were often promoted and received awards from the upper chain of command. They were lauded as the best in the business. Their units fought to get them back after stating in the beginning that I could keep them forever. Unfortunately, I did have few that I had to run through the system to get them out. 2 out of 20 every year gave me a real headache. I had murder (multiple counts), rape, robbery, ID card manufacturing, weapons dealing, adultry, desertion, assault, manslaughter of a baby, car theft (and boat theft) and more to deal with. These people were processed through the military justice system. Some went to CCU (Correctional Custody Unit) and some went to the Brig (or federal prison) for a long time. Some were just given the Big Chicken Dinner and told not to come back.

Someone with a mouth and very little tact is something I can deal with easier than offenses mentioned above. I've personally told Lake that he reminds me of ME when I was a poolee and recruit and young Marine. I had a few good leaders that were able to straighten me out and set me up for a fantastic career with lots of success. I think Lake is learning and for that, I think he'll go far. He puts forth effort. His only problem is that he wants to be a Marine so bad, he can't seem to wait his turn and go through the system like we did. He wants to be on our level, now.

Let him (and all of the others that fu(k it up from time to time) learn from this board and from us. We may save him (and the Marine Corps) a hell of a lot of headache in the future.

I want someone with guts and a little bit of brains. I do not want quitters and non-hackers.

I want someone who will fight to the death. I do not want someone who will cut and run when the sh|t gets thick.

I want someone with patience and who can be decisive at the same time. I do not want someone who takes too long on the pot and flip flops on their positions and ideals (hence why I wouldn't vote for John Kerry).

[CAS3]

Hey Nelson, (yup you pizzed off the wrong WM. I am taking a stand like a MOM would...)
I have known Eric for quite sometime now. He posted a question he wanted an answer to. For general information purposes. If you have a problem with someone here, I suggest you suck it up like a Marine. There is no need to bash someone. He does not need to terminate his contract. He has been locked on for a year now. He has assisted other poolees above and beyond what the "Marines" here have done. Being a mentor should never be about telling someone to quit while they still can. You should be trying to push them to the goal! What type of leadership role have you taken? What kind of mission do you think you have power enough to complete? It isn't your decision to see if Eric is capable of becoming a MARINE. It is up to his Drill Instructors.
I believe in my heart Eric can fufill any destiny he sets his mind on.
Don't make me get ugly!! LOL!

[Lake0300]

Originally posted by jinelson
To Sgt Lane and the rest of my brothers who this pollie has consistently ppssed off:

I have attempted to wing this poolie but to no avail. He does not consider recipricating to my PM's as I have to his, thus as we all know we have the Mother Of All S-Birds attempting to infiltrate and pollute our beloved Corps in time of war as he is self oriented and has no idea of what it is to be a Marine, nor a desire to live up to the expectations of honor the of becoming a United States Marine. Therefore I wash my hands of further mentoring in his case and strongly suggest ha-bu office hours are in order to square him away but also I feel that he is a lost cause.

LAKE - be advised that when aboard MCRD San Diego last week I accomplished my mission as I told you I would, but also be advised that you need to do some serious soul searching and terminate your contract while you still can.

SSgt, I really tried to just let this one go. I've tossed it around for about a 1/2 hour now. At first I thought I'd PM you, but hey, I really dont have anything to hide right now. So here goes...

You dont know me SSgt. You never will. Theres a reason why I didnt give much of a response to your attempts to "wing" me. Ever hear the old saying, to be a good leader, you gotta know how to be a good follower? Well part of being a good follower is knowing who to follow SSgt. I heed the advice of those who know what they're talking about. Sadly, some Marine NCO's on these boards, have maybe lost their touch? Or possibly have just gotten in over their head? I dont know, I dont care. Point is, I chose not to "recipricate" for a reason. I trust I dont need to spell it out for you.

"Be advised" SSgt. that your "mission" was NOT accomplished. The joke is on you, I'm not headed to San Diego. Most Poolees East of the Mississippi go to Parris Island, as will I.

Its unfortuneate that we're on opposite sides of the fence with this issue. Maybe if you had taken the time to look into who I am, what I believe, and the things I've accomplished with my time in the DEP, you'd have a different view on all of this. But you havent, and now, its too late.

As for my contract, it'll remain 59UH - and I have no plans of terminating it as per your request.

To the other Marines that I've "consistantly p1ssed off" - as always you have my apologies. The fact remains I'm still a Poolee, I have A LOT to learn and A LOT to change. With MCRD just around the corner, I'm trying to put myself into that "do or die" mindset. If I say something to offend any of you, I know sometimes I come off pretty cocky, please - speak up. I'm not an idiot, I'm pretty level headed about things. 9/10 times when someone corrects me, I do my best to prevent myself from making the same mistake twice. Again, I apologize to anyone else I've offended.

Jinelson, this'll be the last of our fueds. You're just not worth the worry anymore. You can say what you will about everything above, but know that when I get back from MCRD as A PROUD MARINE - then and only then will we see who was right, and who was wrong.

-Lake

[jryanjack]

One thing that I was always told about NJP, and believe, is that with NJP you are essentially admitting guilt and going before the CO for punishment. I don't think I ever saw an NJP where the accused was 'acquitted.' Also, the rules of evidence in NJP are different than that of a Court Martial - in NJP the rules are much more lax.

I do not think you can rufuse NJP for a Summary Court and then rufuse the Summary Court for a Special Court. As has already been posted, the higher you go the harder the punishment could be if found guilty.

[cjwright90]

Wow-it seems to me that entirely too many people, both Jarheads and wannabe/soontobes whatever are taking things a little too seriously and personally. Maybe all of us, both old and new should think before posting. I have only been on this forum a few weeks, and have already seen quite afew personal attacks on people, some directly naming them and some strongly hinting at them to a point it is pretty obvious who the target is. What gives? We are a team still, the Marines, and the poolees are wishing to become member of the same team. I am off my soap box now, but hope my words ring clear in all ears. I personally won't be thrashing anyone verbally here. I do not think that is what Roger had in mind for this place. Correct me if I am wrong Miss Ellie.

[Phantom Blooper]

Lake, here is a link for the Court Martial Manual 1998......Semper-Fi!! Chuck Hall :marine:

[Phantom Blooper]

Lake those URL's didn't work.Do a Google Search and you should be able to pull it up. Sorry...Semper-Fi! Chuck Hall

[Lake0300]

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/ucmj/blmcm.htm

The 2000 Edition of Manual for Court-Martial

Just in case someone may search this one up in the future.

-Lake

[enviro]

As a sidenote, I want to make this clear - asking about the UCMJ and how it works doesn't mean you plan on breaking the rules.

If you are an NCO (or aspiring to be one) and you don't know the UCMJ, Geneva Convention, SOFAs, and etc... then you should pull your grape out of the rear orfice you have it in.

IN ADDITION, since you are questioned heavily on this particular subject at bootcamp, it would be in every poolee's best interest to get the knowledge. Recruits are required to be able to explain the differences in NJP and each type of court-martial. Recruits are expected to explain the appeal process. Recruits must know specific articles of the UCMJ.

[cjwright90]

I was just busting his stones about looking to get into trouble. I know he needs to know it. I think it is a great question by Lake. Not only is he helping himself, but also the other poolees on this site to help themselves. Thanks Lake for helping them, too.

[enviro]

Come to think about it, there were (and most likely still are) some Marines that learn that UCMJ inside and out so they can TRY and take advantage of the system.

Then you always have that PFC (third award) that has been in for 6 years. We call him the "barracks lawyer" because he'll tell you your rights and "they can't do that" or "I'd fight 'em on that one"

Would you take advice from a "barracks lawyer"?

I must admit that every time I had a Marine come ask me, "Sergeant, what's the max punishment the CO can give at an NJP?" My first reaction and statement was "What did you do!?"

As for busting Lake's stones about his question - he needs it! ;) He's getting ready to leave us and it will hopefully be the last time we get to raz this poolee.

Pay attention poolees on the trials of Abu Gahrib. This is the Military Justice system in full swing. If you don't understand something that's happening, ask us. I am positive your Drill Instructors are paying attention and will be using these courts-martial as examples. :marine:

[Echo_Four_Bravo]

I have read and reread this thread. It has some really good information in it that should be of use to future poolees as the come to our site. However, it shames me that they will see how childish and petty Marines can be at times.

As a Maine posting on the poolee forum, I see only one purpose. To help people become Marines. Notice that we are assisting civilians that do not really know what it is to be called Marine. That is why everyone must go through entry level training... so they learn what a Marine is, how a Marine acts, and how to carry themselves as a member of the world's elite fighting force. Unfortunately, it is clear that the message has been lost by some.

However, there are more than enough Marines around here with the integrity to do what is right. To those that come here seeking to help out the next generation of Marines, I say thank you. To those that take it upon themselves to try and "wing in" or other wise do the Drill Instructors job for them, I ask you to allow the fine NCOs that hold the title of Marine Drill Instructor to do their job. They are the best there is, I am sure they are up to the task.