OCS Candidate seeking very important advice regarding contract situation!!!!(LONG)

[DAVIDB1220]

Hello all

First off I want to thank every single one of you for the impact many of you have had. Looking back at when I first stumbled upon to this site as a high school senior/college freshman, I gathered more information on what I wanted to do as a Marine.

I am proud to say that as of this morning, I have completed all the necessary items to complete my package for OCS and to have my application be sent to the OCS Reviewing board for PLC Combined this March. Except a situation has arrived and it's regarding contracts, and this situation has the domino effect attached to its name.

Recently speaking with the SSGT who has been working with my application for my city's candidate office, I have run into a problem. As some of you may know from many older posts, I want to become a pilot and I've had my eye on an Air Contract for quite some time. This morning I found out that the last Air Contract for this coming board was taken by another candidate, According to the SSGT, It was taken this past week, however, I don't how accurate this detail is.

While speaking with the SSGT, he issued out many expressions using recruiting tactics. I know he's in it just for the numbers but of course, i don't want to be rude. He brought up an issue where he said that if I wanted to leave for OCS this summer, I'd have to take up a Ground contract. He said there's a catch to this.

I'm scheduled to take my ASTB this next coming month, and I've been studying for it for quite some time. He says for me to go with a ground contract, pass the ASTB, go to OCS, graduate OCS and then he'll be able to SWITCH The contract to an Air Contract.

I don't know how valid this process is, I don't know if it even is possible, but I had an idea myself, which I presented to him, but he still pushed that he wanted me to go to OCS for "himself selfishly" as he stated, which of course is wrong in my opinion.

My idea is to take the ASTB, pass it and then wait until March for when the old contracts for this coming class leave and the next contracts come in. By then, they'll already have all of my paperwork and my physical fitness will probably be even better than where it's at currently, and they can simply put my name in that slot for the new Air Contract, guaranteeing me a seat at flight school after OCS and TBS, However instead of doing PLC Combined, I'll be doing OCC, since after this PLC Combined group leaves the next one will be 2016. The OCC class will not leave until next summer, therefore I will not be leaving until next summer, which I have no problem patiently waiting, and instead I can train even more to be even more prepared for OCS.

The whole process of the application has been extremely smooth up to this point. I'm fully medically qualified with flying colors and have absolutely no waivers. The only thing that really rocked this whole process was the fact that the slot was taken before I got a chance to get it, but that's okay because, in order to be a successful leader and officer, you have to be flexible and understand that there's always another way.

I am asking all of you for your wisdom and guidance, as the decisions at this point in my processing will determine what happens throughout my career as an officer and what happens throughout these next 2 years. I'm very open to anyone who has any advice whatsoever and I thank you for taking the time to read this outrageously long message, it really does mean alot to me.

Thank you all again and have a wonderful day

DAVID B

[USMC 2571]

You have a history of nothing but outstanding posts and questions! See the PM I just sent you re: this question.

[Tennessee Top]

Have no knowledge of the process for officers to change contracts at a later date or, if that's even possible. Recruiters do get their marching orders (quotas) from higher headquarters - they don't just steer potential applicants in arbitrary directions. Meaning, they have little leeway in what they can promise or do. Will never accuse recruiters of lying. But, they have been known to stretch the truth some, not bring up potentially important details, etc. Recruiters afterall are trained salesmen. Here is an example:

On the enlisted side. One tactic recruiters use is, promising a poolee unhappy with their MOS category, they can change their MOS later to the one they want. Technically possible (so not a lie), but highly unlikely and rare. One can "request" a lateral move once hey have been at their permanent duty station for two years. Normally, lateral moves are used as reenlistment incentives to keep a good Marine from getting out when their current contract expires (normally after 4 years of service, not 2). And, lateral moves are used to balance MOS communities. Point is, lateral moves are not used to satisfy enlisted Marines unhappy with their current MOS. What this policy is for officers I have no idea.

Good luck.

[DAVIDB1220]

Thanks for your input Top. I understand my recruiter has a job to do and I believe he has done an absolutely excellent job with my package and application. In the end, it really boils down to whether or not I want to attend OCS this summer or next summer. I would love to go this summer, but I don't know whether or not to trust the process of going in as a Ground Contract and then later on switching to an Air Contract.

A contract is a contract and depending on the circumstances, they're usually very rare to amend, especially with military contracts as you may know. Although he stated many times to me that this isn't the first time this has happened and that many people have undergone this process, again it brings me back to the topic that he may be stretching the truth a little bit, unless there is someone out there who has undergone this process.
I'm looking to get in touch with some of the Officers on this site, I know I've seen a couple of them running around here from time to time, but again all advice is always welcome.

[djj34]

It's possible to switch contracts from ground to air after OCS. How easily it is done depends on how many are available after you're back. I guess it boils down to whether or not you're willing to gamble possibly doing 10 weeks for nothing.

The choice is yours. You can wait it out and hope something comes up, you can go to OCS on a contract that is yours to trade. Worst case is you want to be a pilot more than a you want to be a Marine, and drop from the program if you don't get switched to air.

[DAVIDB1220]

Thanks for the input djj34. It definitely is not an easy decision for me to make. I know one thing for sure and that is that I am not backing down from becoming a Marine Pilot. Also, I tend to not think of the 10 weeks at OCS as something for nothing, instead I see it as 10 weeks of learning and pushing hard to earn the title.

But I'm glad to know that it is possible to switch. The only thing that questions me with this process of switching is if the contracts are binding, where if I do sign a ground contract for OCS, I will be in the ground branch when I commission. Not that there is any problem with this at all, but is this true?


So just as you said, pretty much the choice is mine, and I must decide whether I go through OCS now this coming summer with a Ground Contract or wait it out until next summer. But no matter what the decision, I want to become a Marine and I want to fly for the world's greatest fighting force.

[crazymjb]

If you have your heart setting on being a pilot, and you have a planned path to it (going next summer), then I would just do that. Its the rest of your life, not your recruiters. Just my .02

Mike

[djj34]

You can decline your commission up to the day you're supposed to take your oath. You'll **** off a lot of people, for sure, if you do that.

Sounds like you answered your your own question, though.

[DAVIDB1220]

The one thing I do know for sure is that I will definitely never decline my commission if the time came. I've worked way too hard for way too long to have a moment like that encounter any kind of...

[USMC 2571]

Also, as luck would have it, I met a recruiter a few weeks ago in a courthouse, and he just called me for some advice about someone who wants to join up, and I will mention your situation to him when he calls me again about it tonight. So you will have all of the above advice, plus another recruiter to speak with.

[crazymjb]

If your recruiter realizes you are serious that this is the only way you will go, than I'm sure he'll make it happen as you sound like a well rounded, qualified applicant. If not, the army has a much more straight-forward path to aviation.

Mike

[DAVIDB1220]

Very interesting you say that Mike, I actually was offered a Warrant Officer program from the Army back in High School, but I turned it down because they weren't going to guarantee that I was going to get an Air slot and there were many complications in what they were saying they were going to do, as in my MOS. At the time, I was looking to go into the 160th SOAR, but then I realized my desire to become a Marine was much greater.

I think the recruiter will understand, and I think he'd much rather have an over prepared candidate attend OCS rather than someone who he has no guarantee on whether or not his candidate will make it, then again, they're no guarantees in life except death. Our office hasn't had much success with OCS Candidates lately. This past class we sent a total of 6 to PLC and only one made it all the way. the rest either dropped or medical. The one thing this recruiter emphasized the most was the fact that he wanted me to go for a more selfishly reason, in the fact that he wanted someone to come back and set the example for the rest who are undergoing the process.

[Tennessee Top]

Just a personal note since you mentioned medical. While stationed in Quantico we did a lot of running (surprise). Some of it was out at OCS along the trails and ridge lines. I developed a case of chronic compartment syndrome (overuse injury) which required surgery. I remember the orthopedic surgeons at Bethesda National Naval Medical Center telling me they were accustomed to diagnosing and treating that injury largely due to the candidates out at OCS. Gives you an idea of just how much running you'll do.

[djj34]

"I'll take OCS injuries for 500, Alex."

"The contributing reason why candidates are dropped from OCS."

"What are, 'running injuries?'"

From hip issues, to knee issues (and separations) all the way to compartment syndrome and shin splints, getting injured from running is probably the thing that will get you sent home the fastest, aside from cheating or lying.

[crazymjb]

Do they have a medical holding platoon for OCS, or if you get hurt do you just go back when you are better? Or are you DQd even if its something like a running injury that can be trained for in the future?

Just curious, not likely I'll be doing Marine OCS.

Mike

[djj34]

No medical platoon. If you get hurt enough to fall out of training, you go home. Re-attempts are at the discretion of the BnCO; some are invited to come back to the next class, some have to reapply from the beginning, and some are NPQd for life.

[DAVIDB1220]

From what I've heard from family who have undergone OCS, the most common running injury and injury in general is shin splints. I'm being extremely careful with my preparation and I've started to stretch my shins at least once or twice a day for about 15 minutes.

Interestingly enough, while at MEPS doing my medical (apparently my DODMERB had expired past its 2 year period) I was speaking with the chief medical examiner and he was telling me that most of the candidates who come back from Marine OCS with injuries are typically shin splint injuries. He was telling me however that these shin splint injuries are mostly caused by overstriding when running at a fast pace for time. That's when he gave me some tips on how to avoid them and simply I've been implementing those techniques into my running.

I'm trying to increase my distance running as well, and through that, my run time has significantly dropped. It's dropped in a way that I'm even impressed myself that it dropped that much within the good 2 months of serious training.

[DAVIDB1220]

Yeah that's one of the scarier parts of OCS, surviving the injuries, and trying your best to avoid them

If anyone has any tips on that, I'll definitely take them into account.

[FoxtrotOscar]

Get in the pool, learn to swim correctly.

Do some finning, all of this will lead to a better cardio for endurance and lessen the chance of shin splints.

Swimming is often the most overlooked aspect in the Marines....

[DAVIDB1220]

Oh yes indeed, The pool is an excellent training tool, I can't wait to get back into it once spring rolls around and it starts to get warmer. I've been told many times that swimming is the best cardio exercise for preparation for OCS and overall a career in the Marines.

Any specific kinds of swimming drills/techniques/tips?

[FoxtrotOscar]

Primarily the travel and crawl strokes, build up to a minimum of 500 meters and strive for at least 1000 meters.

Learn to fin with dive fins correctly and go for a least 500 meters, this will build up the muscles tendons around the shins better than anything else..

All of this will build endurance for your lungs as well as your core, and you will see a definite improvement in your run times & distance...

Find a lifeguard or Instructor to show you the correct strokes and your on your way, they usually will be more then helpful..

Go for it...!!!

[DAVIDB1220]

Good afternoon y'all

Just giving y'all a little update as to what's exactly going on currently.

Spoke with the Region Captain for OCS/OSO Contracts about my situation here.

This is what he has told me, again, these are recruiters, so I am a little bit careful with what to believe.

He says that this is not his first time doing these program switches from Ground to Air or other changes. According to him, New contracts will not roll out until July, not March. He suggests that I should go with the Ground Contract to OCS, and then when I come back, I will be able to switch my contract to Air, prior to commissioning.

He also said that nothing is official until the swearing in ceremony and the commission. He told me that he's had candidates wait out their commission for the contracts they wanted. He says he has had a guy wait out 6 months for his commissioning to get an Air Contract after he got back from OCS. So I can assume that there is a way to wait out the commission under the Ground contract until I receive an Air Contract.

The process he explained to me of how the switch works are as follows.

Once I come back to OCS, he stated that I am no longer competing for any slots, and that simply all he has to do is send the paperwork to HQ and they will switch the contract. I don't know if this is true or not, If anyone can verify for me this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Now those are his words, these are actual words from the contract itself. Part of me doesn't understand if his words match up with mine.

SERVICE AGREEMENT (1100) OFFICER CANDIDATE CLASS GROUND NAVMC 10462 (Rev 10-16) (EF)

1. d. "Upon satisfactory completion of all commissioning requirements, I understand that I must choose to either accept or decline a commission if one is tendered to me, and that deferred acceptance is not authorized. If I decline my commission, I will be disenrolled from the OCC GROUND program and may request re enrollment to CMC, provided I remain otherwise qualified."

What I'm confused about is exactly how this part of the contract is stated. Does this mean that once I sign this contract, I cannot wait out my commission for an Air Contract? If not, what is this section of the contract really saying?

I know this is a lot for y'all and I know this is a very difficult situation and decision, but this is a decision that will affect my life and I'm taking it extremely seriously. I thank y'all consistently for your efforts to help me with these situations.

[DAVIDB1220]

NOTE: I'm going through PLC Combined, not OCC. I do not know if the contracts for both programs state the same thing, but if they don't, please let me know so I can get a better understanding of what the PLC contract states.

[DAVIDB1220]

Also if anyone can give me any insights or tips on exactly how to go about this process, I'll definitely take them into thoughts. For the past couple days, it's been a mix of "yes take the deal, you can get the Air when you come back from OCS and you're not bound to them because the contract is void until you swear in" and on the other side, "Dont take the contract, wait it out until July and see if you can get an Air Contract if theyre any available when the new ones roll out in July and wait out until next summer to go to OCS".

The captain tells me to take the opprotunity and to go to OCS because who knows of what could happen in a year. The only thing stopping me is the process of this switch and the contracts.

[crazymjb]

FWIW I had a friend who completed the one summer OCC while we were in undergrad and then he didn't graduate on time. He ended up not getting a commission, but was given the opportunity to re-attend if he wanted to, he ended up never going back. That said, I don't know if you reject your commission that they will be likely to re-admit you. As you know, officer slots are competitive in the USMC.

It sounds like what he is saying could be possible. I suppose if you really want to fly, and it ends up not working out, you can always not take the commission and get an Army WOFT contract, or go Army WOFT after you complete your ground time in the USMC.

Mike

[DAVIDB1220]

Good Morning to all

Today is the day. At precisely 12:30PM CST, I will potentially be signing a Ground contract that will go before the reviewing board to attend OCS. It's been a very long and difficult process to get to this stage, but i believe it will be worth it. I don't know for sure if I will sign today or another day. My father is coming with me to help review the contract before anything is done and he will give me his own input on it as well.

If anyone has any last minute advice or tips or anything at all really, please feel free to share it with me.

Thank you all for everything that has led me to this opprotunity, I look forward to telling y'all about what goes on today. I'm confident in my decision to become an Officer in the Marine Corps and attend OCS for 10 weeks.

[fl1946]

Best wishes David. Been following your postings and you sound like a very responsible, intelligent and thoughtful person. As I see it, you will do well as a Marine Corps officer. Every once in a while a bright star lights the evening sky. You are the one. Good luck.

Semper fi,
A Vietnam Marine, 1/9, 3/4

[DAVIDB1220]

Well y'all it's official!

I have signed my contract for PLC Ground, which will change after I come back from OCS to a PLC Air Contract!

The one thing I've learned through this process of the application phase that I have been undergoing for two solid years is the fact that there is always a back door open somewhere, and if not, there's sure to be a window. I have been extremely tenacious throughout this entire period and now it is time to take the next step and await the selection from the board to attend OCS this summer.

I have great confidence in myself that I will do well at OCS, and according to some of the guys who I have spoken with who have recently returned from OCS, I should do perfectly fine as long as I keep a strong mental game. But even with the ease of being told that I will do well, I still will continue to strive to improve myself and become stronger both physically and mentally.

Yesterday I took my first CFT with many other candidates and applicants at a Candidate Function. I felt different that day, a feeling I've never felt before. I enjoyed every minute of it, and realized that I'm now joining a big family and once I make it through OCS, I join an even bigger family. The camaraderie shown yesterday, motivated me even more to perform my best, and overall for the first test ever, and doing many of events for the first time ever, I must say I didn't do too bad.

Of course, there is work to be done. I plan on taking my ASTB for my Air Contract right after Spring Break, using the break to continue studying. Upon passing the ASTB, I will continue to work on the Air Contract and attend an Air physical provided by the Marines at NAS Pensacola. After that, the ball is pretty much in my court and I take on grueling yet rewarding OCS experience.

From the way I see it, I'm on a good path and this is only the beginning.


CFT Results ( first time ever taking the test, so improvement is a must)
Move to Contact (800m sprint)= 03:05 ( PR, Last 800m sprint fastest before this one was last monday, 3:24)

Ammo Can lifts= 73

Maneuver Under Fire: 2:58

Overall score: 262.

[crazymjb]

Learn to love the CFT... Not too bummed I'll never have to do one of those again. Other than that, congrats man, sounds good. I've never gone through OCS, but the advice I got for the mental game of boot camp, that I have in turn given to others is this: No matter how ****ty it gets, and it will be ****ty at times, it will come to an end. Don't look at "the whole 10 weeks," look at time until your next meal, and until you can go to bed. Boot Camp, and I imagine OCS, are the easiest parts of your military career. OCS will require you being a bit more proactive than one in enlisted Boot Camp would, but you sound smart and driven, so I'm sure you'll do fine. You'll likely feel your highest and lowest there, but you won't be the only one. Just one day at a time, and the whopping couple months will fly by. Don't quit on yourself, it's always just one foot in front of the other, and one more thing to do. Then it ends.

Good luck on the ASTB, I'm studying for the SIFT currently and I'm supposed to take it in a couple weeks. Still working on setting up my flight physical. I don't see why I wouldn't pass, but that has me nervous as it's completely out of my control if there is a disqualifier. So good luck on that as well.

Keep us posted.

Mike

[DAVIDB1220]

Yes sir, definitely, and good luck with all your testing and whatnot. Seems like we're both on the boat there. Speaking to that guy who just came back and him telling me I'll do fine and to just keep up with the physical fitness, that really helped me understand, that this is more of a mental game than a physical game for sure.

I believe I'll make it, and there's absolutely no way I can allow myself to quit. I've worked way too hard for 6 long and hard years, and I just don't know how I would be able to let it all go in a split second.

[crazymjb]

Short of getting hurt, the ball is in your court so to speak. OCS, from what I understand, is very physically intensive... but it's not BUD/S. If you get yourself into good athletic shape, and your OSO says you are ready to go, then you are ready.

Mike

[DAVIDB1220]

Well Ladies and Gentleman, I have amazing news that 6 years of extreme dedication and hard work have been waiting to here. As of yesterday afternoon, I received a call from my OSO regarding this year's March board for OCS.

I can successfully state that I have been accepted and selected to attend OCS this summer for the PLC 10 week Combined program.

After so many years of research and so many obstacles encountered, I can state that I am one step closer to achieving my dream of becoming an Officer of the World's Finest Fighting Force.

This journey was not taken alone, as many of you deserve so much credit for helping me make this opportunity happen. So Thank you all so much for everything you guys do on here. Without y'all's guidance and advice, I probably wouldn't be able to say this post.

To those still in the application process, Don't give up on your dream, no matter how far it seems, You can make it! It's a long, hard road, and there will be times of doubt and wanting to quit, but dig deep, and keep going, It will be worth it!

This is not the end of a journey, but instead, the very beginning. So many steps down, One more to go. Taking it one small step at a time!

David C

[DAVIDB1220]

Well Ladies and Gentleman, I have amazing news that 6 years of extreme dedication and hard work have been waiting to here. As of yesterday afternoon, I received a call from my OSO regarding this year's March board for OCS.

I can successfully state that I have been accepted and selected to attend OCS this summer for the PLC 10 week Combined program.

After so many years of research and so many obstacles encountered, I can state that I am one step closer to achieving my dream of becoming an Officer of the World's Finest Fighting Force.

This journey was not taken alone, as many of you deserve so much credit for helping me make this opportunity happen. So Thank you all so much for everything you guys do on here. Without y'all's guidance and advice, I probably wouldn't be able to say this post.

To those still in the application process, Don't give up on your dream, no matter how far it seems, You can make it! It's a long, hard road, and there will be times of doubt and wanting to quit, but dig deep, and keep going, It will be worth it!

This is not the end of a journey, but instead, the very beginning. So many steps down, One more to go. Taking it one small step at a time!

David C


*hear, I'm typing on a messed up keyboard at my school's library

[USMC 2571]

We deserve ALL the credit, not just some. What did you do besides listen to us and go from there? Just kidding. Congratulations! We remember you when you first came on the site, asking good questions, intelligent questions. Please keep us updated as to how things go for you from here! And keep in touch via regular email please.

[crazymjb]

Good luck man, keep us posted.

Mike