Combat Fitness Test

[CallumChicago]

Good afternoon Marines,

Today I had one of my monthly Pool functions with my local RSS. Along with the IST we are given each function, we also conducted a CFT.

I had read a little about the CFT before hand, but had no clue as to how physically tough it was. My entire Pool was wiped out by the end of the event. Even our Guide, the most fit in our group, struggled with it.

As I understand the CFT is a newer addition to the Marine Corps. I just had a few questions in regards to it.

From what I've seen, the CFT is done at Boot. But is it a scored and required event to pass, such as the PFT?

Also I was curious as to work out tips for helping with this event. I know that the sprint and ammo can lift are what they are. As in you just have to do it to get better. But what kind of workouts would you recommend for the shuttle run aspect. It doesn't look that hard, but halfway through I was pretty drained!

Thank you for any and all help Marines. Hope you have a good weekend.

~Poolee Callum

[Rocky C]

The CFT is not that new.

It has been in effect for almost 6 years now.

Just click on " Similar Threads " under you post and it is all there for you.

Best of luck as it is scored and required.

[MunkyVsRobot]

Yes it is required to graduate and it is scored. The CFT is easy just do it, the thing is only 8 minutes of suck.

[crazymjb]

The CFT is miserable, but "easy." I'd rather run a PFT all day vs a CFT any day of the week.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

Never did one - after my time. Did see recruits doing one at PI when I went there a couple summers ago for a graduation. Have heard it convinces a lot of the older Marines to reconsider their career aspirations.

[crazymjb]

I can believe that. I honestly don't see anything good coming from having someone in their mid 40s fireman carrying people and doing buddy drags. It's a great way to hurt yourself permanently. My back issues were DEFINITELY made worse during a CFT, and I'm 24.

Mike

[JoeMyst]

I can believe that. I honestly don't see anything good coming from having someone in their mid 40s fireman carrying people and doing buddy drags. It's a great way to hurt yourself permanently. My back issues were DEFINITELY made worse during a CFT, and I'm 24.

I guess it depends on your expectations. I don't care if someone's in their mid 40s, if we deploy together in an infantry unit you should expect the same thing out of yourself that you expect from me. But if you're not looking to deploy any time within your contract I don't see the point in doing one. Just in the same though I don't see the point of table 1 shooting; I'm not going to prepare loop sling and sit criss-cross to engage the enemy.

I'm sure we're all aware, some of the things we do don't make sense. But we all do it together--Unless your rank doesn't have to anymore

[crazymjb]

The cft isn't in my opinion a great way to tell if someone is "fit for combat." It should be pretty obvious in any deploying unit who are the stragglers physically and who are not. Plenty of 110 pound dudes have 1st class cfts and can't fireman carry a 250lb guy who is also kitted up. That's a reality of physiology, and why we work as a team.

as far as table one goes marksmanship is a very perishable skill. It is my opinion as a civilian firearms instructor that the Marine Corps made a huge screw up by making table 1 "more realistic" and not even teaching with irons in boot camp. This is akin to only teaching mout and neglecting all of basic patrol formations and communication. You lose the basics, your whole game suffers.

[Tennessee Top]

The cft isn't in my opinion a great way to tell if someone is "fit for combat." It should be pretty obvious in any deploying unit who are the stragglers physically and who are not. Plenty of 110 pound dudes have 1st class cfts and can't fireman carry a 250lb guy who is also kitted up. That's a reality of physiology, and why we work as a team.

as far as table one goes marksmanship is a very perishable skill. It is my opinion as a civilian firearms instructor that the Marine Corps made a huge screw up by making table 1 "more realistic" and not even teaching with irons in boot camp. This is akin to only teaching mout and neglecting all of basic patrol formations and communication. You lose the basics, your whole game suffers.

They teach with optics in bootcamp now? Is the old maxim "focus on the front sight tip/blade" history? Do they also qualify with optics? If so I just can't relate. But, if you shoot with optics in the field then it stands to reason you should qualify with optics IMO. Wish I was more up to date on marksmanship in the USMC today.

[crazymjb]

Yes, at least for a trial period they teach irons as an afterthought for familiarization purposes at SOI. This is relatively new, I went through boot in 08 with M16A2s the whole time, I think they started this recently (2012). I have heard "unofficially" people are pretty ****ed about it, but they have to smile and take it. My buddy starts grass week next Monday, I'll write him a letter and verify they are using ACOGs, but on the Parris Island facebook page where they have all the boot camp photos updated daily, I see all ACOGS and no Irons.

Table 1 is a test of basic marksmanship, and in my opinion should involve loop slings, iron sights, and data books. Table 2 is a test of applied marksmanship. You MUST HAVE THE FUNDAMENTALS to properly build further skills in my opinion. So even though my issued rifle is an M4 with an ACOG, I'd rather see recruiters and even Marines completing table 1 using the fundamentals... because that is what a KD range is a test of.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

Maybe I'm missing something but how can you miss the target with a properly sighted scope? Wait...I take that back - I have hunted small game with a scope before and missed! Guess they're useless in the rain? I requalified in the rain one year at CamPen; was sitting in a puddle on the line and the glue on the cheesecloth targets was beginning to come apart. Range Officer said as long as the targets remained on the carriages the range would stay open. We managed to get all the relays in that day but everybody/thing was soaked. Just don't think the optics would've worked but not familiar with the ACOG so don't know.

[crazymjb]

Acogs work in the rain just fine, though they do (as one would expect) make table 1 significantly easier. They also don't require you to make wind calls (at least not as effectively as irons), etc. Hence the fundamentals go by the way side.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

So there are more Expert badges handed out today?

[crazymjb]

I'd be inclined to think so. I only shot table 1 with irons my first qual, since you have been allowed to requal on ACOGs since I've been in. Just recently did they start teaching the ACOG as part of the primary marksmanship instruction though.

That said, the pits tend to be more generous outside of Boot Camp, so it's hard to say.

Regardless I see the fundamentals getting lost when you move table 1 to RCOs.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

Interesting. My niece ships to PI on Dec 2nd. All this time, I've been harping on her to "focus on the front sight tip" but with a scope there is no front sight tip. Oh well, I know the PMI's will teach her right anyway. She wants to shoot expert just like her uncle.

[crazymjb]

I don't know if you've talked to your niece yet about going in to what really is a mans world, but she MUST be stern and as it has been put to me by my fiance as it was put to her by her drill instructors "you need to be a *****." It sucks but the reality is women are not treated the same way in the Marine Corps, nor are they held to the same standards. So I'd work on making sure she knows how to put her foot down. That, based off women in the Marine Corps I know, is the best advice and help you can give her.

Also, I wouldn't let her ship without a contract.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

Mike, I was a Marine for 22.6 years - give me a little credit please. Of course, we carried muskets back then. I lead every type of Marine from recon rangers and future LDO Majors/CWO's to female privates. From personal experience, I know how women are treated and the double standards they endure. I took my niece to PI so when she gets there it won't be her first time on the depot as is normal. We have had multiple counselling sessions with me doing the majority of the talking. I have no idea how much is being received. As you know, people have their perceptions about being a Marine but until you are one nobody can explain it to you. It's just something she'll have to learn on her own (like your fiance did). I give her advice all the time but what she does with it is up to her.

As for her MOS. This is her second rodeo. She had an Intel contract as a senior in highschool but did not ship because her boyfriend did not want her to leave town. The USMC let her enlist again (the boyfriend is history) but she lost her Intel contract. She is being treated as open contract. The normal rules do not apply in her case this time. They told her that before she enlisted this time so she knows the score and is good with it. We're just hoping for the best.

[crazymjb]

I didn't know if/when you worked with them, or how things were like when you got out. I only know because I'm marrying one (that I dated in highschool), otherwise I've never done anything short of being participent on an AO tour with FET. Some people are in denial about how the military is for women so just wanted to toss in my .02

sucks on the contract thing but I guess that's what happens. Hopefully she gets lucky (especially if she has good test scores). Is she gonna try her hand at ITB? They are letting some women try it as an alternative to mct now on a complete volunteer basis.

Mike

[Tennessee Top]

She is just thankful for a second chance to earn the title and understands there is a price to pay for walking away the first time. She has good test scores (good enough for Intel anyway) but not sure how much they mean in this situation. Not asked her about volunteering for ITB but we will talk about it. She does intend to seek a leadership position in bootcamp with the hope of graduating PFC. She has been a personal trainer at LA Fitness the last year and has a high IST score (already doing more than 3 pull ups). Knows most of her knowledge but there are still a few subjects she struggles with (still has a few days to study).