Keeping a low profile and Marine Corps Orders

[Quinbo]

If you live in orange county you might just be in the military.
If you are 20 years old and driving a brand new mustang you might just be in the military.
If you are in washington state but speak with a slow texas drawl you might be in the military.
If you have an ohh rahh I love the Marine Corps tatoo you might just be in the military.
If you go to the laundrymat to wash your 782 gear in preparation for a JOB inspection you might be in the military.
If you are able to describe to a barber exactly what a 0 to 3 graduated haircut is you might be in the military.
If when you stay in a hotel and you ask if there is military discount on the room rate you might be in the military.

Letting you grow your hair out aint gonna change a dang thing.

[bgsuwoody]

The blackness of your chevrons, high boot blouses, tightly rolled sleeves, haircuts, etc do not make an operator and operator. What makes an operator is the way they do their job. Id rather have someone who is percieved as a "****bag" who knows their job like the back of their hand over someone who looks "squared away".

And I would rather have someone who has done the job, tell me what the job of the infantryman would be...you can be a damn good Marine in the field and in garrisson. Its what my senior Marines and the one's here taught me and it stuck...

I was put in charge of Marines and made a team leader 3 months after hitting the fleet not because I am a motard, but because I proved to be an asset and was tactically and technically proficient.

I picked up CPL after 22 months in service not because I was in Security Forces and got free points and bull**** pros and cons, but because my actions in Afghanistan merited winning a SPMAGTF board.

Marines continue to follow me because of the standard that I set for myself and for them and the way in which we collectively continue to excel as a group and because they believe (truly believe) that my actions and my abilities will teach them to keep themselves alive and protect those in their squad.

And you are worried about ****ing haircuts...

[PaidinBlood]

I have to agree with you there - I heard the cop out "I'm just not a garrison Marine" far too often. My seniors taught me that the field made you appreciate garrison, not disregard it. They may not have had ridiculous fvcking haircuts but when we weren't living like animals we tried to look like Marines. DIs, recruiters, etc, I have still never seen sleeves like my seniors.

Admittedly, I missed the point of it at the time-I mean, what do sleeves have to with killing bodies, right?-but in time it became clear. They didn't lock their uniforms as a requirement of an infantryman, but rather it was a manifestation of everything they had been taught. The more I see of other branches and MOS's the more I understand the school in which I was raised.

[josephd]

While I completely agree with you on this Cpl. quite a few Marines don't have the luxury of being able to be judged/rated on being "tactfully and technically proficient". Many Marines work mostly in garrison and in shops/offices where how they look coming to work says almost everything about them.

This kind of logic is the same when it comes to promotions in correlation with PFT, CFT, rifle range, MCI, etc. It doesn't make sense a lot of the time but that's the way it is so we do our best as Marines to adapt.

[PaidinBlood]

While I completely agree with you on this Cpl. quite a few Marines don't have the luxury of being able to be judged/rated on being "tactfully and technically proficient". Many Marines work mostly in garrison and in shops/offices where how they look coming to work says almost everything about them.

This kind of logic is the same when it comes to promotions in correlation with PFT, CFT, rifle range, MCI, etc. It doesn't make sense a lot of the time but that's the way it is so we do our best as Marines to adapt.

What exactly are you trying to say, Marine? As I read it, Cpl Woody said that

you can be a damn good Marine in the field and in garrisson. Its what my senior Marines and the one's here taught me and it stuck...

From that I gather that he agrees that representing oneself as sh*tbag in Garrison is unsat.

As for your comments, I don't agree. Every Marine has a job and therefore has the opportunity to display their talents in expertise and leadership. It may not always pay off in chevrons but it gets the job done and people notice. Trust me-I did my dance with cutting scores and lost for years but I really didn't care because I was leading Marines and getting sh*t done. That's just me, though.

SF

[josephd]

What exactly are you trying to say, Marine? As I read it, Cpl Woody said that



From that I gather that he agrees that representing oneself as sh*tbag in Garrison is unsat.

As for your comments, I don't agree. Every Marine has a job and therefore has the opportunity to display their talents in expertise and leadership. It may not always pay off in chevrons but it gets the job done and people notice. Trust me-I did my dance with cutting scores and lost for years but I really didn't care because I was leading Marines and getting sh*t done. That's just me, though.

SF

What I read from the Cpls post was that a haircut and such things as related to professionalism in the Corps shouldn't be as big of deal as it is made out to be. And I completely agree with this. In my post though I was trying to point out that many Marines are judged on this more than they should because being tactfully and technically proficient while important doesn't play as big of a part in their job or particular MOS as it does in others.

[PaidinBlood]

What I read from the Cpls post was that a haircut and such things as related to professionalism in the Corps shouldn't be as big of deal as it is made out to be. And I completely agree with this. In my post though I was trying to point out that many Marines are judged on this more than they should because being tactfullyand technically proficient while important doesn't play as big of a part in their job or particular MOS as it does in others.

Tactfully or tactically? Just giving you a hard time. What I'm saying is what do you base this on? Looking like a Marine is a minimum but every job offers the chance to demonstrate proficiency and leadership-but how do you think that certain MOSs are judged more harshly by sleeve rolling and haircuts?

[josephd]

Tactfully or tactically? Just giving you a hard time. What I'm saying is what do you base this on? Looking like a Marine is a minimum but every job offers the chance to demonstrate proficiency and leadership-but how do you think that certain MOSs are judged more harshly by sleeve rolling and haircuts?

hahahaha typing faster than I can think here, sorry Sgt.

There have just been a few occasions that I have seen a few junior Marines like myself be looked at not very highly by their command because they aren't "poster Marines". They know their job and are within regs but don't quite fit the part that is being looked for.

One Marine in particular I know personally works in a shop that is ran by a civilian/retired Marine MSgt. and he wants all the Marines in his shop to have a high and stupid haircut along with other motard things that have been referenced in the thread. Even the shop's Plt. Sgt. hates trying to enforce this.

[PaidinBlood]

hahahaha typing faster than I can think here, sorry Sgt.

There have just been a few occasions that I have seen a few junior Marines like myself be looked at not very highly by their command because they aren't "poster Marines". They know their job and are within regs but don't quite fit the part that is being looked for.

One Marine in particular I know personally works in a shop that is ran by a civilian/retired Marine MSgt. and he wants all the Marines in his shop to have a high and stupid haircut along with other motard things that have been referenced in the thread. Even the shop's Plt. Sgt. hates trying to enforce this.

Well hell if that's the case, he-the plt sgt-oughta find some sack and take care of his Marines but I think I get what you were trying to say now. That's a shame there isn't a single leader present in that shop.

[Old Marine]

Someone on this thread that is and has used the (I guess its a word) motard in referal to their brother Marines needs to define motard. I looked in Websters Dictionary and it not in there.

[Old Marine]

Back in the early 1960's I knwe a Marine who had a high & tight and looked like a Marine on a Recruiting Poster. When it came to liberty he put on a wig, hippy clothes an ear ring and went on liberty. When liberty was over, it was back to being a squared away Marine.

By reading some of these posts, I am assuming that some people did not get it when attending Recruit Training. Could it be that their Drill Instructor was a soup sandwich, I highly doubt it. Every Marine is taught right from wrong and when they get to the fleet it is up to them.

[Danny C Smith]

Someone on this thread that is and has used the (I guess its a word) motard in referal to their brother Marines needs to define motard. I looked in Websters Dictionary and it not in there.

Gunny,
It sounds like one of those "oxymorons" to me. Heavy on the "moron".
Motivationally retarted.
Which, to me would mean absolutely no motivation at all.
Which would be truly sad for any Marine.
It's a damn shame Marines "seem" to be ashamed to look like Marines.
I went through that too though. Grew my hair really long, all that crap.
Grew hair on my face that felt like hell and all of that.
But, I was still proud to explain the Eagle, Globe and Anchor tat on my shoulder. I wasn't ashamed to be a Marine. Just tired of it all at the time.
That is a different story though.
Why would we give a rat's azz what the general population out in "town"
think anyway?
Anyone that thinks a booty call in "town" is worth more than looking like
a Marine is a "motard" in my dictionary.
Never mind a civ might give you a hard time. So what. Kick the pizz out of'em
I understand both sides of this, been on both sides of the fence and even
straddled said fence for a time.
I guess what I'm saying is that no matter what anyone and I mean
ANYONE, be it chicks in town, slimey, dirtbag guys in town or the freaking
potential "terrorist types" in town or where ever. We ARE TARGETS.
We are MARINES. The FEW, The PROUD. MARINES *******IT!
We should all hold up that standard. We are trained to run TO the gun fire.
Not shrink away from it.
If I'm an old "motard", fine. I been called much worse
Semper Fi.

[PaidinBlood]

It's not an oxymoron; it is a portmanteau, combining the two.

Like any other slang the exact meaning lies in the intent of the speaker, but in most common usage (in my short experience) it refers to an individual whose false motivtion has led to a tragic mental debilitation. Whereas a solid appearance should be the result of being a good Marine (fitness, attention to detail, etc) some "motards" believe it is the foundation. They generally obsess over trivial issues in order to mask their own inability in the job. This is a primary reason why they LOVE to "devil-dog" or "life" passing Marines-they may not know a converged sheaf from grazing fire but damn if they can't spot a boot bloused .0001" too low from a mile away.

So you see, it is not motivation that is wrong; it is the misapplication of false motivation which rightly draws the ire of their brothers-in-arms.

[Old Marine]

Gunny,
It sounds like one of those "oxymorons" to me. Heavy on the "moron".
Motivationally retarted.
Which, to me would mean absolutely no motivation at all.
Which would be truly sad for any Marine.
It's a damn shame Marines "seem" to be ashamed to look like Marines.
I went through that too though. Grew my hair really long, all that crap.
Grew hair on my face that felt like hell and all of that.
But, I was still proud to explain the Eagle, Globe and Anchor tat on my shoulder. I wasn't ashamed to be a Marine. Just tired of it all at the time.
That is a different story though.
Why would we give a rat's azz what the general population out in "town"
think anyway?
Anyone that thinks a booty call in "town" is worth more than looking like
a Marine is a "motard" in my dictionary.
Never mind a civ might give you a hard time. So what. Kick the pizz out of'em
I understand both sides of this, been on both sides of the fence and even
straddled said fence for a time.
I guess what I'm saying is that no matter what anyone and I mean
ANYONE, be it chicks in town, slimey, dirtbag guys in town or the freaking
potential "terrorist types" in town or where ever. We ARE TARGETS.
We are MARINES. The FEW, The PROUD. MARINES *******IT!
We should all hold up that standard. We are trained to run TO the gun fire.
Not shrink away from it.
If I'm an old "motard", fine. I been called much worse
Semper Fi.

OK Danny and thanks for the info. The way I get it is, this so called motard is Marine who follows regulations and is the first to let the other non motards know when they are doing wrong. This this Motard Marine is on the non motards list and the only way he can get off of it is to become a non motard and screw the pooch. The Marine Corps will never change.

[Danny C Smith]

Thank you Sgt.
I stand educated.
So, why are Marines these days ashamed of looking and acting like Marines?
Maybe I'm just too old, but I don't think the Corps should be "mainstream"
When The Corps is supposed to be The Marine Corps.
Marines are intended to stand out. the forward tip of the cutting edge.
And be damned proud of it. No matter what.
False moto? I saw it back in the day. You bet.
So what? Motivation is what drives The Marine Corps.
Always has and always will.

Sgt.
My Grand Father was an Army Soldier. WW11 and Korea.
I was raised by this Man and my Grand Mother.
He told me stories of "crazy Marines" as he called them.
He told me the Marines were insane. And arrogant.
But, he never down talked the Corps.
I'm sure some if not all of the stories were "embellished"
as they should be. Motivation.
He said Marines were the meanest and friendliest men he had ever known.
I remember him telling me that Marines lived in the mud.
They ate garbage, as how he put it.
And didn't give a damn about anything but killing the enemy.
He called them insane.
But he also told me that they were very "PROUD"