3 Mef Liberty Policy Vs Ucmj

[PDQS]

Alright, I am bringing up an issue that has been on my mind for quite some time and I wonder everyone's opinion. Sorry it's a long post.

There is a policy right now in the 3 MEF A/O for Marines stationed in Okinawa, JP and that many commands enforce when they deploy as well.

Here is the intent of the order:

"Liberty Risk Program
The intent of this program is to provide a legal means for curtailing the liberty of those individuals who have displayed a potential for irresponsible behavior. This provides the authority for lawful deprivation of normal liberty in a foreign country or in foreign territorial waters. Disruptive or adverse actions by service members on liberty can, and have in the past, seriously impair American relationships with friendly countries. Commanders have the authority to assign individuals to this program for unacceptable behavior or conduct. During off duty periods, especially weekends and holidays, any Officer, SNCO, CPO, NCO or Petty Officer has the authority to curtail the liberty of any individual for good reason to maintain good order and discipline and to deter / prevent potential incidents of misconduct. The key points of this program are:
Ø Liberty risk is not a punishment but a measure to prevent the misconduct of those individuals with the potential for irresponsible behavior.
Ø Each classification of liberty risk includes no purchase or consumption of alcohol.
Ø Liberty risk serves to protect foreign relations and imposes a degree of discipline on individuals lacking self-discipline and maturity.

The Liberty Risk Program is outlined in MARCORBASESJAPANO 1050.3."

Here's the issue:
This allows the CO (Battalion level) to restrict a Marine to his quarters without an NJP, or any formal charges at all. It also allows him to do this INDEFINITELY in 30-day intervals. Some different stipulations (which are added/subtracted arbitrarily on a case by case basis) are

*) All liberty risks secures consumption/purchase of alcohol
1) Said Name Marine (SNM) must be in Uniform Of the Day (UoD)
2) SNM must check in with DNCO @ x hrs
3) SNM may only travel from billeting to appointed place of duty (APoD)

I have watched two different COs out here use this against Marines pending NJP, also, as a way for them to further punish SNM.

Example:
Marine on liberty does something stupid. NJP ensues.
While waiting for NJP to happen, CO puts Marine in Liberty Risk, restricting him to BEQ/PoD.
Marine spends 29 days unable to travel to PX/Off-Base, Etc. CO waits until day 30 to NJP him and add another 30-60 days of restriction his way, plus extra duty six days a week.

I have also seen where the CO will NJP SNM earlier and then force him to carry out liberty risk punishment (restriction) before starting the ...Uh...restriction.

I also was witness to two Marines who were a house, on base, at a party. They went home at around 2200, and a fight broke out at around 0200 (at the party they left.) The CO put these Marines who left on Liberty Risk for 30 days. No paperwork, no reason, no charge. Confined to BEQ and Work with no alcohol consumption and a few other stipulations.



I know Marines reading this may think "well that's the green weenie for you" or words to those effects. I understand where you're coming from, but that is no reason to turn a blind eye to these types of things.



Here's where this is a problem, in writing, anyways...

An excerpt from Article 15 of the UCMJ referring to maximum punishments:

" [The maximum that can be given] By commanding officers in grades O-4 and above

...

(7) Restriction: not more than 60 days."


The enforcement of this order than I have seen has served as a loophole for COs operating in this AO to violate the UCMJ when disciplining Marines. I'm wondering what anyone has to say about this. Let me also say that I am, obviously, not happy with my command here but I am not a trouble-making Marine, I am a motivated Corporal who happens to care about people's rights - especially when it comes to signed contracts by two parties.

[wargrudge]

Fill out your profile.

[Garyius]

I think you are right. I also think the only thing that will stop this is a congressional inquiry. And most of the congressmen are busy having the vapors over the gay stuff right now.
I also think that if you are the one who writes your congressman over this illegal punishment, you will be the one punished.
You will get sent to a ship to do navy mess duty for 60 days, then to Korea to clean out buildings without a mask. If you don't get sick there then TDY to afg to walk in front of convoys until your legs get blown off.
Never forget you are dealing with an officer class that started under clinton, grew up under bush jr and 'all reports must be lies, damn the troops lives' rummie, and now have gotten their stars or are about to under obama. They will think nothing of crippling or killing you as an example to those who question their criminal actions.

[spotts]

As my 1st Sgt once told me "liberty is a privelege, not a right"......

[Marine84]

Can we move this one to the Hooch PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! But only after PDQS (does that stand for Pretty Damned Quick Seperation?) fills out more of that profile.

[gwamo1]

I'm glad everyone is taking the time to give good insight into the matter....

[TinDragon]

I think it's in place for a good reason. You have to remember, messing up over here doesn't just affect other Marines, it causes international incidents. It's especially bad at this point in time, as every mistake we make means less Marines get to stay on Okinawa instead of being stationed in Guam. It sucks that some people who shouldn't get screwed by it do get screwed, but ****e happens.

[HOWARDROARK3043]

here is a idea,,,dont screw up,,,,,hmmm.... Marines are over there that dont get in trouble and the liberty policy is fine,,,,,,,its the weirdos that screw up and then cry to their mother YOU JOINED THE MARINES,,,,NOT THE GIRL SCOUTS ,,,TAKE OFF YOUR SKIRT PUT ON THE CAMMIES AND LETS GO.....im sick up boots crying about stuff,,,just forget the Marine Corps and just play modern warfare two at best buy and tell people at one time you were in the Marines. sorry,,, i have not chewed anybody out in a few days,,,,

[gwamo1]

I got in trouble in Okinawa back in 2007. It was out in town, involving a honcho. I got yelled at by my Master GunnerySergeant, something like "IN THE MORNING, PRESIDENT BUSH WILL BE BRIEFED ON THIS. THAT A UNITED STATES MARINE WAS INVOLVED IN AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT! THE PRESIDENT WILL KNOW ABOUT YOU!" Was it a big deal? No. Did it mess up the SOFA? No. I paid the cab driver, got an NJP, and everything was fine. Their were no picketing outside of any gates or anything. Some people just like to blow things out of wack. If you get in trouble, do the punishment, move on. Stop complaining. Do unfair things happen? Yes, all the time.

[temarti]

There is and always has been a spotlight on Okinawa, it only takes once major incident to drop enforcement on everyone. Especially in the political climate that is current for the region.

There is a major difference in being stationed in the military abroad than there is being an expatriot with a passport and visa working in that country. I have lived a few years a piece on both sides in Okinawa and Japan. The difference is night and day. With a private company they could care less what you do after work as well as the Japanese. If you get into an "incident" it will not make any headlines or your employer will not know.

Now with the military, all the focus is on you, how do you act in town, what laws are being broke, is the perception that all act this way. I lived on the private side in downtown Tokyo, when we would go out to Shibuya or Ropponggi we would just scratch our heads and say "damn" were we that stupid.

So basically, a Congressional is not going to fix it, the rights of the CO have been passed from above in order to limit the liabilities of another incident occuring. The last thing a Command would want is for a Marine that should have been restricted out in town creating a problem, the media would go nuts over that.

[haebyungdae]

Agreed, one persons F-up is everybody's F-up when stationed overseas. With that said, programs like these should be carefully implemented with appropriate oversight conducted by company and battalion commanders, if not higher. If that's not being done then that could be a big problem, with incidents like what was explained above or just random NCOs restricting Marines because they don't like them/they want to F around with them (thats what I would think would be a big problem). I would think that for cases like listed in the first post, Marines put into those positions should remember that they have a chain of command they can go to and air out any grievances. If the COC doesn't work then that Marine can always request mast, but they had be pretty dang sure that they are in the right.

If someone gets into trouble, especially overseas like Okinawa, and were involved/the reason then boo frickity hoo, maybe they shouldn't have F'd-up and they probably deserve the extra punishment. And because they already F'd-up, while waiting for NJP they ARE a risk and after NJP should still be considered A RISK. After serving restriction for an NJP their attitude should be reevaluated, but if there is no perceivable change the commander should be allowed every right to treat them as a continued risk to the very touchy relationships we have with our host nation officials/neighbors.

I'm in Korea and curfew is gay as sht and I wish I didn't have one, especially as a Sgt, and it gets annoying as sht to be treated like some noob that knows nothing about being overseas, despite knowing the culture and language just as good as any Korean. But then I go out into town and see people acting like morons, getting into fights, and treating the host nation people like sht...and you start understand that things are the way the are for a reason.

[Quinbo]

Liberty cards. I think they still have them or have them again. You get caught shoplifting at the PX or trying to stiff a cab driver or some other dumb stuff then your liberty card is confiscated. Pay the piper if you are a dumbass. People lacking liberty cards are often the first candidates for crap duty like chipping paint on ship or police calling the parking lot. If a dim wit breaks clearly defined rules then take away his liberty. It is not restriction. You don't have to sign in with the duty every two hours in uinform. You just have proven that you are a liberty risk. Most of them do not ever face article 15 and it is not a bad mark. Could be a lot worse if you get put on **** and punk for 6 months for being an idiot.

I would say more but this is not in the hooch.

[temarti]

But then I go out into town and see people acting like morons, getting into fights, and treating the host nation people like sht...and you start understand that things are the way the are for a reason.
__________________

There is no need to read into the "whys", this sums it up.

[mjhpgh]

I had someone who worked for me once say "Ill take the hit for it" What they do not realize its not up to them. If a CO or an NCO has multiple people under their command screwing up .THEY are also in deep ****. If one of my people get caught doing stupid **** -I am taking the first ass chewing.

[mjhpgh]

I type sh it and get**** but ass is OK ?