poolees. So you want to be infantry huh?
Create Post
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 87
  1. #1
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0

    Talking poolees. So you want to be infantry huh?

    For those of you that don't know me, my name is Sgt Chapman. I'm here to answer questions to you poolees that will be going to boot camp soon. Since I train recruits in the Marksmanship phase of boot camp, I'm a resource you can use. However, this section is for all of you poolees that are planning on becoming Infantryman. Those Killer 03's that everyone hears so much about but no one can seem to locate. Well look no further my soon to be bretheren for not only am I a Highly Motivated master of Marksmanship instruction. I also happened to be one Highly dedicated master of ground poundin'...feet beatin'...bug eatin' non-stop balls to the wall infantry tactition. What I mean by that of course is that I am a Grunt, the big 03...0311 that is. I'm an infantry rifleman, the heart of the Marine Combat Machine. And if any of you motivated poolees think that you have the cajone's to be in the "Grunts" then feel free to ask me any questions you like. I would be glad to share my knowledge. But be warned, this information is for the faint of heart, grunts are as mean and tenacious as they come, so be prepared.
    P.S. Don't ask me about any jobs other than infantry or recruit training, cause I DON'T CARE WHAT ADMINISTRATIVE SCHOOL IS LIKE!!!!!!! Carry on....


  2. #2
    Sergeant Chapman, could you please give us a run-down of what SOI is like? I've seen the schedule on Camp Lejeune's website, but reading a planning schedule is not the same thing as a first-hand account.

    Thank you Sergeant.


  3. #3
    firstsgtmike
    Guest Free Member
    Now, here's someone displaying common sense. He is taking the opportunity to get the information straight from the horse' s mouth, rather than settling for it from a horse's rear end.


  4. #4
    Sgt. Chapman,
    I too would like to know what the SOI is. Any information would be great. How much alike are Marine infanry and Army Infantry (I'm ex Army). How are they different? Once you are MOS qualified, is there any way you can request a certain unit? (For example, my uncle was in the 2nd Marine Div and I wanted to carry on the legacy.)


  5. #5
    Here is another question. I have read posts where poolies ahve asked questions that have all ready been answered in previous posts. Is there a good place to start reviewing post?

    Question # 2- Is there a good place (book, website) that would give me a basic understanding of a typical infantry unit. For example if you wanted to know about my old unit, the 82d Airborne (no I'm not name dropping, it's just the best example I can come up with), I would tell someone to look at Tom Clancey's book "Airborne: A guided Tuor Though an Airborne Division". Any suggestoins?

    Final question... Has the Marine Corps adopted or will they in the near future adopt the M4?


  6. #6
    Bear, I don't know the name of the book, but Clancy also wrote one about a Marine MEU. While it focused on more than just the GCE, they were of course the center peice of the book.
    Now, I am sure the motivated PMI would be able to answer your question about the M-4 much better than I, but I am going to answer it any way. (Just because I can't let the chance to offer an opinion go by.) The M-4 is not a good fit to the Marine Corps, and from I have been told, it will not become the basic issue weapon. While I have never shot the M=4, I have some experience with other short variations on the M-16/AR-15 rifle. In my experience, at 500 meters, you would have just about as much success if you threw the bullets down range. While it can be debated whether or not a Marine (or soldier) on the ground needs to be able to take a 500 meter shot or not; I do not think it is possible to debate the choice the Marine Corps has made to include this in the course of fire. As you well know, the fundamentals of marksmanship become more important each time you move away from the target. Being slightly off at 200 meters will not hurt you as much as being off at 500 meters. For this reason, I personally feel it is important to train at the greatest possible distance from the target. With some weapons systems you can move back further, but with others you would have to move in closer. With the M-4 I would "assume" that the 300 meter line would be about as far back as you could go with success. (Tell me if I am wrong Sgt.) I do not think that is wise.


  7. #7
    Registered User Free Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    13
    Credits
    392
    Savings
    0
    the Tom Clancy book is called "Marine A Guided Tour of a Marine Expeditionary Unit" it tours the 26th MEU


  8. #8
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0
    1st things 1st. I am thrilled to see so many questions and comments. Knowledge is the key to all our successes. 1st Sgt Mike I would just like to say that I love your good ol' fashioned Marine Sense of humor. As For BGMFH, whatever the hell that means, the 1st Sgt is right it is better to hear it from the horses mouth.
    For starters SOI stands for school of infantry as you should already know. However what you probably don't know is that even non infantry Marines go to SOI. Infantry Marines go to ITB (Infantry Training Battalion) and non infantry Marines go to MCT (Marine Combat Training.) ITB is very much in it's own way like boot camp. What I mean by that is...ITB is the basic knowledge that you will need to know as an infantry Marine. How to do basic land navigation, or basic patrolling techniques. You will certainly have more freedom there than you will in Boot Camp, but it is still a very basic course. I'm not sure what the timeline you read says but the truth of the matter is...the schedual for ITB gets changed a lot. The heart and soul of a well trained infantry unit lies within the small unit leaders, such as Platoon Sergeants, squad leaders or fire team leaders, and how well they train their Marines. Make no mistake the knowledge that you learn at ITB is very important, but the bulk of your infantry skills will be tought to you by your unit. I hope this answers your question. If not perhaps you could give me a little more feedback and we can work from there.
    Semper Fidelis.


  9. #9
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0
    Real quick for Bear_Grunt. I did a little chatting with you the other day. As far as differences, Marines will tell you that we are harder. The reality of it is, the army has different types of Infantry as you well know. We just have Infantry. I think that we are a little tougher than the Army. I don't just say that because I'm a Marine either, I have had the oppertunity to train with the Army on several occasions. With the exception of their spec ops I think that they just fall short. But don't think that they don't serve a purpose, they have strength in numbers, and somebody has provide comedy relief to the enemy.
    Question#2 That book by Tom Clancy is a great book from what I hear, but I haven't read it. If you want good insight as to what Marine Corps infantry is really like, you just have to experience it. It's like combat in that sense, no one can really tell you what it's like, it's an experience all in itself. However, unlike combat, the Marine Corps infantry is to me the greatest place to be. You will never find a stronger Brotherhood.
    As far as requesting a Unit. Upon completion of ITB you will be placed according to the needs of the Marine Corps. However if you decide to stay for another enlistment you will have the option of duty station you desire the first time you re-enlist.


  10. #10
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0
    Now on to the M4
    It's interesting to me that this debate should arise here. I only say that because just recently we did some testing with the M4 while downrange with recruits. First let me say E4B that the M4 is just as effective at 500 yards as the m-16. Surprising isn't it? I thought so too, but it's true. However, it is harder in my opinion, to form a good position. Believe it or not, some recruits that were chosen to shoot the M4, performed better with that weapon at 500 yards than they did with the m-16. But those with longer arms had the most trouble. The m4 is a good weapon that has it's uses. For example, I had the pleasure of working with the Spec Ops (Force Recon) community for about 2 and a half years. We used the m4 for shooting in doors when we did hostage rescues or vessel boarding operations. The fact is the M4 is better as a close range weapon, but can be employed effectively at long range if the Marine using it knows what he's doing. I actually think your comment about the M4 being good to only about 300 yards is kind of funny. The reason that I say that is statistically, Marine recruits, and Marines shoot better from 500 yards than they do from 300 yards. The Marine Corps has however made the decision to go with a newer version of the
    M-16 A2. The new weapon is supposed to be the same basic setup and size as the current, however, it will have rails on the handguards for mounting different types of optical devices. I think the new weapon will be good accept there is plan to have a handle much like that found on the front of an old Tommygun. I think that this particular bit of hardware is a wase of time as it serves no purpose in effective marksmanship on the range or in a combat enviroment. The m4 is used within the Spec Ops community in the Marine Corps and will continue to be, but I don't think it will hold a place in the regular Infantry any time soon.


  11. #11
    Sgt Chapman,
    What is qualifcation like at Recruit Training? I've seen a lot of old Marine movies that have those targets that go up and down with the spots that go over where the shooter hit. In the Army (Army= A: Aint R:ready for M: the Marine Corps Y: yet) you would get the into to the M-16 class followed by zeroing the rifle. That is followed by a couple of days firing on the range in the fighting position, the prone supported position and the prone unsupported position. After they are sure that everyone knows that the rounds come out of the long small end of the rifle you would qualify on a range of pop up targets. You fire80 rounds to qualify.
    SO.... I guess what I'm asking is what do we have to look forward to? How different is the range set up for the M-12A2 than the SAW or any other weapon. As a MArksmanship instructor do you ever instruct on any of the other weapons or are you primarily an istructor on the M-16A2?
    Final questions....(must have input... Brain feels so empty... information is llike a drug and I need my fix!) Even though SOI just gives you the basics, do they cover patroling under different conditions? (MOUNT vs forest vs desert vs moutains)
    NExt.. What are the ranks usually assosiated with the different leadership positions in the squad? For example would a CPL be the fire team leader and a SGT be the squad leader? I have about a million and one other questions... but I'll save them for another post. Thanks again Sgt. Chapman for making yourself available to answer these questions. Keep your feet and knees in the breeze and have a hardcore day.


  12. #12
    Wow Sgt. Chapman, I am shocked! Like I said, I have no experience with the M-4 but I am surprised. With the shorter barrel length, I would have thought it would have lost some accuracy like most weapons do. I guess I should be even more impressed with the weapon than I already am. And, no doubt for CQB situations, it has an advantage over the M-16A2. As for being more accurate at 500 meters, it doesn't surprise me. I know I always shot better at 500 than at 200 or 300. Something about just laying there waiting for the target to come back up. Once you have your position locked in, it's just (to steal a phrase from the Army) TOO EASY!


  13. #13
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0
    Bear,
    You really do thirst for knowledge don't you? That's ok though. That's what I, and any other intstructor likes best. Someone who asks questions.
    Qualification in the Marine Corps is very different than that of the Army. The Marines have two different courses. One for the Recruits, (which is based more on precision shooting) and one for Marines who have already completed recruit training, (which is based more on combat...or so they say.)
    For our purposes I'm only going to cover the course of Fire for recruit training. You will fire what is known as the ELR (Entry Level Rifle.) When you arrive at Edson Range (Recruits going to San Diego Only...Those going to Parris Island will stay there when going to the range,) your first week will consist of classes with your PMI. Each recruit platoon will have there own. You will get classes for the entire week. These classes will include all of the fundamentals of marksmanship, effects of weather on the shooter, and on the rounds/weapon, classes on how to "zero" the M-16 A2, the sighting system, the course of fire, how to "build" a good prone, sitting, kneeling, or standing position. You will learn more knowledge about good marksmanship than you know what to do with. PAY ATTENTION!!! There is nothing taught that first week that isn't important. On Wednsday of that first week you will go to the range in the afternoon to do your "grouping exersize" This is the first time most recruits ever shoot the weapon. The following Monday, or the next week you will actually go to the rifle range.
    Course of fire:
    200 yard slow fire Stage 1
    5 rounds sitting 5 rounds kneeling 5 rounds standing...the time limit for this stage of fire is 20 minutes.
    200 yard rapid fire stage 2
    10 rounds fired from 2 magazines containing 5 rounds each in a time limit of 70 seconds. You will go from standing up to a sitting position in order to fire.
    300 yard slow fire stage 3
    5 rounds sitting in a time limit of 5 minutes
    300 yard rapid fire stage 4
    Again you will fire 10 rounds from 2 magazines of 5 rounds each in a time limit of 70 seconds. For this you will go from standing to a prone position.
    500 yard slow fire stage 5
    10 rounds prone in a time limit of 10 minutes
    That is the entire course of fire it consists of 50 rounds with a possible score of 5 points each, totaling 250 points. Keep in mind no one has ever shot a perfect score. There are 3 different types of targets you will fire on. The "Able" target which is a basic square target with a 12" round bullseye. The "Dog" target which is designed as the sillouette of a man in the prone, so it only shows a head and shoulders. (That is the target you will fire your rapid fires on.) Then there is the "B mod" target which is the sillouette of a man from waist to head. (That is the target you will fire on at 500 Yards.) During monday through thursday of your "firing" week you will practice all of the marksmanship skills you learned the week prior, only you will be firing live rounds. SAFETY IS PARAMOUNT!!!!!!!!!! The best part is however, you will have a "Coach" a marksmanship instructor who will work with you through the entire week to help "ingrain" the fundamentals of marksmanship with you. He will help you to perfect each of the firing positions, and guide you through the process. Now, on friday you will have to qualify. The coach will only be there to help you in between stages of fire on friday, while your on the firing line, YOUR ON YOUR OWN! So you better pay attention. If you did pay attention and ask plenty of questions, qualification will be easy and fun, if you didn't pay attention, it can and probably will be a very stressfull day for you.
    As far as the other techniques of fire you asked about, you will learn those the week after qualification (providing you qualify) during your "Feild Week." I don't handle this phase of boot camp, but I do know about it so if you have questions on that ask me and I'll tell you what I can.
    As far as instruction on the M249 Saw, and other such weapons, that takes place at SOI. I am not currently a SAWI (Small Arms Weapons Instructor.) However I will be going to that school (SAWIS...Small Arms Weapons Instructors School) in November. So, for those of you who are going to boot camp after that, you can ask me questions about that when I return from the school.
    In SOI/ITB you will learn basic patrolling techniques in a semi dense vegitation are abord MCB Camp Pendleton (San Diego) and you will have the oppertunity to learn some basic MOUT techniques as well. However, since all of the training takes place abord Camp Pendleton, you will not have desert training or the like until you get to your infantry unit.
    Ranks:
    Unlike the Army where a Staff Sergeant is a squad leader. In the Marine Corps we place more responibility on our NCO's. Corporals are usually Fire team leaders, sometimes squad leaders when Sergeants are in short supply. Staff Sergeants are platoon Sergeants in the Marine Corps.
    I hope this answers all your questions fully, but if not feel free to ask me some more. I enjoy answering them
    Until next time. Semper Fi
    Sgt Chapman


  14. #14
    SGT Chapman,
    What is the zero range like? From what distance and how many rounds?
    Next question is about maintaining a stable posture. Where do you tell the recruits to place their hand on the hand guards? When I qualify with the Department of Corrections I usually have my hand on the silver rings that hold the hand guards on. (Please forgive my ignorance SGT. I have forgotten what that is called.) I try to get my body as compact as possible and usually fire 10 for 10. Of course the target is only 50 meters away and you can measure my grouping with a frisbee. I was just wondering what your thoughts on this were. The input would be benificial now as well because I've got to go qualify next month for the DOC.
    What I don't understand is why do you train in the sitting position? I can understand kneeling, standing and the prone, but not the sitting position. There is probably a real obvious reason that I am overlooking. "Recruit Bear! Whay are you firing in the sitting position!?!" "Because you told me to! Sir!"


  15. #15
    Registered User Free Member offhand200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oceanside California
    Posts
    36
    Credits
    0
    Savings
    0
    The range that you fire your Zeroing exersize on will be the same range that you fire on for qualification. Your zeroing exersize will be fired monday morning of your "firing week" This exersize consists of three strings of fire. Two of three rounds and one of four rounds. It is fired at the 300 yard line in the prone position.
    There is more involved in the placement of the foreward hand than just "where" Straight out of the book "the handguards should rest flat across the palm of the hand in the "v" formed by the thumb and index finger. The elbow should be inverted and underneath the weapon." This is something that you will learn a lot more about in boot camp, during your first week at Edson Range. (It's called "Grass week") Your body is not going to be compact per say. The fact of the matter is to teach you all of the fundamentals required for a good shooting position takes a couple of days. If you go to any search engine, such as yahoo and type in MCRP 3-01A you will get several results for your search. However the first result on the page is the Marine Corps unclassified publication on Marksmanship. All of the fundamentals that we teach come from that publication. It does a good job of expaining everything to you. Look it up and then if you have any questions regarding anything covered in that manual, feel free to ask me. As far as why we fire in the sitting position, a long time ago a bunch of Marines and Civilians who knew a whole lot about Marksmanship sat down together and decided what we would do. I don't know why we train in the sitting but I can find out. Ask me again next week.


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not Create Posts
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts