Priors who go to OCS - Page 3
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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by UMDStudent24 View Post
    I had no idea that the attrition rate was that high in the MECEP classes.

    Hell, I thought ours was high at graduating 44/65.
    The attrition rate is not as high in Golf, I think we dropped 8 total. The Marine I was talking about just started MECEP, last year he was a Sgt Instructor in some of the other Companies. The platoon he was telling me about what right when Col Mancini first got there.

    You might have seen him running around a little bit this summer, GySgt Tyson is his name.


  2. #32
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    Ok, thanks for answering my question.

    So the deal seems to be that you need to be vocal, giving clear instructions and checking up on all the people you're in charge of and to generally give off the impression that you know what you're doing.

    To get kicked out for inadequate leadership then, you'd need to not be paying enough attention to what the people below you are doing so that they end up making mistakes. Alternatively it could be that you're not giving enough orders/instructions to the candidates you're responsible for, or that you're giving orders in a way which causes them to dislike you (making mistakes, having a bad attitude)?

    Don't people at OCS make an effort to help/cooperate with their leaders anyway though, since the candidates know that they will themselves be in the same position eventually? This is sort of what I'm worrying about, that I would be in a position where all the guys are cooperating and doing what they're supposed to be doing anyway, and then being in a position where I'd have to give instructions for the sake of it (or does just giving verbal encouragements to your people count for the evaluators as showing leadership)


  3. #33
    There are several times throughout the cycle that you will be giving instructions just for the sake of it. That's just the nature of the beast.

    But on that, while generally the other candidates do listen and do what they are supposed to do; but there are times where they are looking out for themselves.

    Take for example you're the platoon sergeant and you're trying to get the whole platoon to do something, but there is one guy that doesn't have his gear marked so he is trying to finish that up. To him getting his gear marked is his priority, especially since the rest of the platoon will be fixing whatever the other issue is. Your job is to either (a) let him gaff you off and do what he wants, (b) force him to stop and help the platoon, (c) grab a couple other candidates to help him out and still get the other job done, or (d) none of the above. Depending on what you choose can have drastic repercussions on how the platoon sees you.

    One important thing I noticed during my time there was this: When you first get there most of the candidates don't know each other and agree during the admin week that everyone will look out for one another, and this is good. However, as the training goes by and three or four of you are completely responsible for one of the candidates finishing anything you come to the realization that unlike recruit training you are about to become leaders of Marines. If numbnuts next to you cant even manage to mark his gear correctly how is he going to have the attention to detail to lead anyone? Now your outlook changes from lets hook everyone up to, holy crap this guy is going to get people killed.

    I actually have lost some sleep at night because I feel responsible for one of our candidates graduating..he has no business being a Marine, let alone an officer of them..

    Oh, and "verbal encouragements" will get you slammed so hard its not even funny. NEVER say anything along the lines of "good job guys" when you're walking around. Just take my word for it.


  4. #34
    teddyn,

    Basically, you're going to have different experiences. When quality candidates are in charge, the platoon generally does what is supposed to. You will see candidates help other candidates fix problems, they will sound off, they will move quickly, etc. When you have a candidate that is not respected by the other candidates, people will gaff off. Candidates will focus on their own tasks and neglect platoon tasks. You will probably see both happen.
    You would think that everyone will do their best, but that isn't the case. When you're there many people are so focused on getting their own stuff done that they just don't listen to the candidates in charge because they don't want to get in trouble with the Sgt. Instructors.

    You have to be able to keep the candidates motivated and focused. There are dirtbags there but most will be dropped.

    Some will get through. As Diblo said, it will cause you worry. My platoon had an individual who lied about his crunch count on the initial PFT (he would've failed he reported the count accurately) so he could stick around. He also took a cookie from the chow hall, but turned himself in. I think he only recieved company probation. He was cited by the instructors as a poor leader and recieved poor evals from his squad. However, he somehow graduated.


  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by DIBLO7 View Post
    There are several times throughout the cycle that you will be giving instructions just for the sake of it. That's just the nature of the beast.

    But on that, while generally the other candidates do listen and do what they are supposed to do; but there are times where they are looking out for themselves.

    Take for example you're the platoon sergeant and you're trying to get the whole platoon to do something, but there is one guy that doesn't have his gear marked so he is trying to finish that up. To him getting his gear marked is his priority, especially since the rest of the platoon will be fixing whatever the other issue is. Your job is to either (a) let him gaff you off and do what he wants, (b) force him to stop and help the platoon, (c) grab a couple other candidates to help him out and still get the other job done, or (d) none of the above. Depending on what you choose can have drastic repercussions on how the platoon sees you.

    One important thing I noticed during my time there was this: When you first get there most of the candidates don't know each other and agree during the admin week that everyone will look out for one another, and this is good. However, as the training goes by and three or four of you are completely responsible for one of the candidates finishing anything you come to the realization that unlike recruit training you are about to become leaders of Marines. If numbnuts next to you cant even manage to mark his gear correctly how is he going to have the attention to detail to lead anyone? Now your outlook changes from lets hook everyone up to, holy crap this guy is going to get people killed.

    I actually have lost some sleep at night because I feel responsible for one of our candidates graduating..he has no business being a Marine, let alone an officer of them..

    Oh, and "verbal encouragements" will get you slammed so hard its not even funny. NEVER say anything along the lines of "good job guys" when you're walking around. Just take my word for it.
    Or Lol, as my plt sgt explained it his Hispanic accent.. "no high five or good game...negative!"

    Teddy, I wouldn't try to formalize it or think too hard about it. I mean it's good that you're getting a good idea of good things to do and not to do, but when you're down there things will be a blur. Just be confident in your abilities. Why do some guys not want to help their other candidates? Simply put, OCS can do some weird things to you. It can bring the best out of you and the worst. With barely any sleep combined with stress, sometimes even the best do things out of character. Everyday was a mental test to really put forth your best effort in all things. I was the front rack of the house, and admittedly I'm not the greatest with squaring away my trash. That just meant I had to be extra sharp everyday to avoid my SI's wrath. Good thing there are good candidates because some of my buddies would help me out, and I'd offer help in my strongpoints which was the knowledge and the PT. But yeah by wk 5, there is a lot of yelling and barking and sniping. It's a marathon...


  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by UMDStudent24 View Post
    teddyn,

    Basically, you're going to have different experiences. When quality candidates are in charge, the platoon generally does what is supposed to. You will see candidates help other candidates fix problems, they will sound off, they will move quickly, etc. When you have a candidate that is not respected by the other candidates, people will gaff off. Candidates will focus on their own tasks and neglect platoon tasks. You will probably see both happen.
    You would think that everyone will do their best, but that isn't the case. When you're there many people are so focused on getting their own stuff done that they just don't listen to the candidates in charge because they don't want to get in trouble with the Sgt. Instructors.

    You have to be able to keep the candidates motivated and focused. There are dirtbags there but most will be dropped.

    Some will get through. As Diblo said, it will cause you worry. My platoon had an individual who lied about his crunch count on the initial PFT (he would've failed he reported the count accurately) so he could stick around. He also took a cookie from the chow hall, but turned himself in. I think he only recieved company probation. He was cited by the instructors as a poor leader and recieved poor evals from his squad. However, he somehow graduated.
    Wow...that surprises me. That's a big deal. I mean certain things you realize they didn't care too much about, but lying on your crunch count? Man, like I said, the lack of sleep plus stress can make you think weird thoughts, but just don't be stupid. I remember when I finished the E Course I was so smoked, I had completely forgot what time I ran it in. When I went to report my score, my plt sgt was like well I just saw you run it a few seconds past Candidate V so you must be at 39 blah blah...I was just like nope give me the max time (obviously said in the right format lol). Just didn't want to risk it, and the score is really meaningless in the long run. Guys who might have failed the E Course or O course can still stick around...it's not everything, but integrity is.


  7. #37
    I was his crunch partner. I didn't know what he reported because everyone who had less than 100 went up to the staff to report their scores. I realized he had to have lied a few days later when the PFT failures disappeared and he was still around. I knew he had a failing score because he told me how many pull-ups he had done, and I knew his run time because I crossed the line a few seconds before him. I knew something was up because I remember thinking he had to be borderline and I calculated what it was. It definitely wasn't passing.

    He had to have lied about something. You can't misreport pull-ups, they count it right there. I heard him report his run. So, it could only be crunches. He also asked me to 'help out' on his crunch count before we started. Needless to say, this guy was not one of my favorites. I wish I'd reported him when I figured out what had happened.


  8. #38
    You were in Bravo Last summer??? I was with B/4 last summer


  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Geagle05 View Post

    Many of the guys in our plt were scoring in the 290+ range. While OCS has shifted more from running to Cross Fit/combat fitness type workouts, the bottom line is you still got to be in great shape.

    R/s,

    Geagles.
    Can you explain, or someone, what you is meant by "cross fit/combat fitness type workouts"? all I've been told, or have read, is that all you do (PT wise, excluding O course and endurance course) in OCS is run ALL THE TIME! When I think of running, all I think about is running hills in CAMPEN. When I read this, I got the impression that OCS now doesn't do as many long runs? If you can give me some examples and how it fits into a training week that would be great. If i'm way off base in assuming that, let me know. I just want to know what to expect more of, long runs or this cross fitness stuff.

    I went to Bootcamp is 2003, and got out in 2007 as a Corporal. Currently a JR @ Portland State University. Interested in putting in my package for a PLC class over summer 2011.


  10. #40
    what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon2ndLT View Post
    what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package
    Many years ago while the earth crust was cooling, I did PT at Quantico. I live about an hour south and try and get up there when I can.

    Thanks for the friend invite Lt. If memory serves me correctly you had some sort of delay with receiving your O-1 bars. Has that been resolved? Are you now at TBS? If so how is it going?? Nothing like the Corps, you made the right choice!!

    Good luck to you

    Dan


  12. #42
    no sir it is mostly just the wait to enter TBS which i still do not know when that is happening. Right now I am pining my bars may 24th so its all a waiting game right now.


  13. #43
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    Don't worry Lt. ( you've earned the salute in my opinion) it will all work itself out. I understand the Corps has some sort of backlog problems at all ranks. Seem like some sort of cluster f$$k. lol

    Dan


  14. #44
    well in my opinion just gives a whole new meaning to hurry up and wait lol


  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon2ndLT View Post
    what they are talking about is that the running is there but there are exercises during the run. There is a huge emphasis on combat fitness. When I was there last summer pull ups, ammo can press, and a lot of other things. That being said there is a couple long runs but it has switched over towards not just having a high PFT score but also being an overall top physical shape. hope that answers your question and good luck on submitting your package
    Thanks. I was assuming it was something along those lines. Any recommendations outside of studying MC knowledge and working out a lot? I only ask because you were there recently, and i'm not going into OCS assuming it's going to be a "cake-walk" since i'm prior enlisted.


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