If you were inspected by yesterday's Marine, would they approve of what you wear?

[Achped]

Are you guys kidding? "We should try to dress less like military so we don't stand out?"

I'm 6'4", white, with short hair and no beard or earrings in Hawaii. I could be wearing *ANYTHING* and they will immediately know I'm military. The only difference is Marines dress appropriately, white the Army, Navy, and Air Force are "back on the block" when they go out in town.

[Petz]

Achped, you have a great point... and it's universal around the world with military.

now that kids are starting to have the long shaggy zack effron hair we are standing out more and more again.

dressing appropriately is not going to make us stick out any more than we already do.

[William Hardy]

Achped and Petzold - I accept your point...who said we don't need to stand out? Achped is correct about appearance...there is only one group of military people I know of that do not stand out in public...At Ft. Bragg I was in Intel School and we had a couple of Delta Force guys in our class. On post it was easy to spot them...they were the only ones with long hair and civilian clothes. Once they left the post, they blended in well. The rest of the Special Forces and others had short hair and strutted on and off post...just like Marines on liberty...I just think that Marines should look sharp on or off post...show your pride on and off duty. I don't think trying to blend in should enter the picture.

Back in my day we were not allowed to wear utilities off post except for going to and from work if we lived off base. During the gas shortage back in 73-75 we were given permission to stop for gas and was able to get out pump it ourselves. It was the only exception that I know of...get caught by another Marine and a butt chewing was in order as a minimum...some even went before the man. There was no terrorist threats then....the CG just wanted his Marines to project a good image in town. If you were in your Greens or Trops you were good to go or even your Khakis...but never utilities or overalls for the MT, mechanics, and air crews.

[Petz]

that's how it is now gunny... it's just some kids want to wear the cloths they had in high school.

and they wonder why so many Marines are jobless when they get out... they can't present a decent personal image... they wear loose baggy cloths with all sorts of glitter and writing on them... they wear jerseys when a game isn't on... it's pretty sad in my book.

keep in mind, I said when a game isn't on... and then there's times that it's not even that sports season...

[Pete0331]

Achped, you have a great point... and it's universal around the world with military.

now that kids are starting to have the long shaggy zack effron hair we are standing out more and more again.

dressing appropriately is not going to make us stick out any more than we already do.

My favorite topic!
Hair length and its relevance in the modern age!

There are ways to blend in.
If you can't do it with a bad haircut then you probably can't do it that well with a decent haircut either.
It has more to do with personal mannerisms then it does with appearance.
Hair is a part of the uniform, just remember that.

[Supersquishy]

My favorite topic!
Hair length and its relevance in the modern age!

There are ways to blend in.
If you can't do it with a bad haircut then you probably can't do it that well with a decent haircut either.
It has more to do with personal mannerisms then it does with appearance.
Hair is a part of the uniform, just remember that.

Had a kid come into my office, He had a goatee but short hair, but after 2 minutes of talking to him I knew right away by his mannerisms that he was in the Service, I asked him and he said he is in the Army. I bit my lip about his goatee, he knew I was a Marine right away too, but we BSed for a long time, good kid, just unsat in the grooming standards...LOL

[Petz]

well... if he's reserves he can have whatever he wants till drill...

you'd be surprised how many ultra low reg, "off the ear" haircuts there are in the reserves.... I sometimes ask, why not have a decent fade and be done with it?

they say 'cause then they can tell it's not a fresh haircut 'cause the sides are longer.... I just shook my head and walked away.

you know, they said gradual fade... didn't say from where as long as it's off the ears.

[Shrink]

The Medal of Honor isn't something you win. It is something you are awarded.

You may be interested in knowing that then Colonel David Monroe Shoup, the CO of the 8th Marines on Tarawa, was awarded the Navy Cross for that action.

Subsequently, after WW II ended, a review board was established to consider whether Navy/Marine types had earned their fair share of medals, and in particular, the MOH. At that point in time it was determined that Shoup's Navy Cross should be raised to the MOH.

I knew General Shoup....well. Several times weekly between June of 1961 I faced him across a table some 4' wide while briefing him on an item that was on the agenda of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that day that had logistic implications. At the time CMC was not a "Member" per se of the JCS. However, he could declare that the Marine Corps was in "Direct Concern" on any agenda item, and enter the debate in the "Tank." (Where the JCS met in the Pentagon.) On one occasion I had, in Shoup's opinion, slighted the then Sec Def Robert McNamara during my brief. Shoup then chewed me out royally, and you haven't been really chewed out unless CMC himself does the chewing. Normally Shoup was very easy on officers of less than Colonel ranks. The latter seemed to always draw Shoup's ire, while the rest of the peons who briefed him, only a few Majors as I was at the time, or the LtsCol of which there were many were obviously not considered to have sufficient intelligence to appreciate a good chewing.

However, in the case I cited where Shoup gave me the business, I believed then and I still do that when he was through huffing and puffing he felt a little ashamed of himself. After all, what the hell could he expect from the lesser ranks but sheer ineptitude? Whatever, he turned back to me and said "Now young man, do you have anything else funny to say?" My reply was that "No Sir, not at the present time, but I'm was born in Indiana just as you were, and if you'll give me a minute I'll think of something." Everyone in attendance turned white, and that included about 25% of the General Officers in the Corps, waiting to see if Shoup was going to execute me on the spot. However, after a very tense few seconds Shoup sort of grinned, and the matter was over....for then. But every time afterwards that I moved to the table to brief him he always said something like "And here comes the funny man. Do you have anything funny to tell me today?"

On the last day that Shoup was going to attend a JCS meeting in late December of 1963m he appeared in uniform, which was something of a shock since the Chiefs usually wore civvies. When he marched in with his retinue of aides and other horse holders, he sat down and began to pat his pockets, finally declaring that he'd forgotten his glasses. Several Generals and a big Flock of Colonels jumped straight in the air and began to beat feet to get Shoup's glasses. However, then LtGen Wallace Greene, who had been Shoup's Chief of Staff for the past four years, was present. Shoup turned to General Greene, who would succeed him in three days as CMC and said something like: "The rest of you stand fast. I want Wally to get them for me." And LtGen Greene jumped up and walked down to CMC's office and returned with the glasses. Shoup didn't even bother to thank him.
Respectfully, Semper Fidelis, Sully

[Warbyrd13]

If we are going to bring up grooming standerds about a clean shave and short hair that is simple to address.

The reason for short hair is hygeine, lice, fleas and its easier to wash short hair compared to long hair.

Clean Shave- That is so you get a good seal on your gas mask.

I posted ealier that "fashion standerds", clothes and hair styles change over time. If you look in the past on what was in style and compared it to today people wore some wierd stuff in the past. And people probaly will think the same about us in the future on what we wear now.

Some people want to get all anal about hair cuts, colared shirts an stuff. But to be honest all you need is a good pair of pants, shirt and you are fine. Everyone here has thier preferance on what a Marine should wear.

I am more comfortable in a pair of black jeans and a t shirt than I am in dress slacks and a colared shirt. Some people like to wear ties. Some people prefer "low regs" and others prefer shaved heads.

This topic will go on and on becuse everyone has a preferance on things however the grooming standerds state 0-3 inches with a fade for hair cuts. it may have changed but that was the last i knew of.

The general deal with civy clothes is a converstaive apperance similar to a charlie uniform.
Other people add to it on their own personal preferance to these standerds. This is off topic but it shows what I am talking about.

Here is an example:
RCT-6
Taking leave.
Sumbit normal paper work through MOL and await feedback. 5 or 10 day

2nd MARDIV
Taking leave.
Training has to be up to date ie PFT, Rifle, Swim Qual and BST and your rilfe must be cleaned.
Liberty brief package- you have to be counseled by Plt Sgt or SNCOIC.
Map quest with directions to destination-
5 paragraph order on what you plan on doing on leave to include
-rest stops on the way.
-what your plans on for leave
-any special events you may have planned.
-You are required to brief your SNCOIC, OIC and 1st Sgt and CO or XO before they approve.
-Seat belt waivier
-PPE brief for motorcycle waiver.
-Plane ticket bought in advance.
-Hotels you planed on staying at.
It will take about 3 to 5 days to get all this infomation togehter and written out.
I honestly laughed when the Plt Sgt told me I had to fill all this out. I thought he was joking with me until he handed me the "leave package". But the good news was since I was taking terminal leave that was differant and I did not have to fill out all those forms and provide all that infomation thankfully.

[Petz]

and that's why they standardized leave requests on MOL now.... no more of that unit specific crap.

Itineraries have always been a requirement as junior Marines may drive farther than they safely can... not that we wanted to see hotel reservations or anything, but taking 5 days of leave when you are suppose to take 3 days driving one way is a red flag... it's ORM.

we don't want to lose our Marines in an accident when it could be avoided.

as for training, and cleaning of the rifle.... come on... I've cleaned my rifle so well it was taken the first time at the armory after the range... then 6 months later (I never checked it out) the armory puts a kill roster for dirty weapons.... mine had so much carbon on it I refused to clean it... armory said they won't take it back so I took it to my CO... asked him his armory is jacked up... either they accepted it this dirty after the range (which makes them jacked up) or they lent it out and didn't make that person clean it (which makes them jacked up) and I told him I refuse to clean a weapon when it's mandatory to clean it before it's checked in... either way, it's the Armories responsibility now, not mine.

he sent me back and told me he'll give them a call... when I got back they called everyone up to the window and had them hand them in... the Armorers were going to have a long night.

[Warbyrd13]

SSgt P,

I agrea with you on the ORM when a Marine submits for leave. That is normal and the Cpls and Sgts will have that issue taken care of if people are doing thier jobs correctly.

But before you was allowed to submit your leave request in MOL you had to do that package or the 1stSgt and CO would not approve of your leave. This was what 2nd MARDIV was doing. To me it was a waste of time and paper but becuase there were soo many deaths after people returned from deployments this was a "solution". this was the policy when i left in 2008.

This was part of the circle jerk paper work and made up policies I had to deal with when I got back in Feb 2008. In between combat leave, TAPS/TAMS the whole checking in/out(out of RCT-6 to Comm Co 2ndMARDIV then check out then check out with main Admin office) all of us who extended for the deployments could not stand the stupid crap we had to deal with.

I had to go to the Sgt Major about this crap for myself and those other Marines who had to check in a unit then check out so we could check out again for our terminal leave paper work. I had no pateince for this becuase my daughter had an upcoming surgery and I nearly missed that becuase inefficent policies between the unit and the main admin office. There were 15 of us in the same boat and we were not happy about the whole deal.

Thankfuly the issue was adressed and I was able to be home on time for my daughter's surgery and I beleive they fixed the whole (check in to check out to check out to leave) issue also. But that was more of a MEF admin vs Div admin policy crap deal. I ended up going on leave a week later than I had planned and that was a fun thing to explain to my wife. But everything was good at least my severance pay went through without problems.

I have had the same problems from time to time as a Plt Sgt when we would do our monthly weapons cleaning and no one was sent to the range that month but several of our weapons had alot of carbon on them or when people had to check out thier weapon and it was loaned to someone becuase of lack of spare weapons. That was always a fun fight with the armory personal.