A Soft Core Marine Corps?

[Old Marine]

You mean yall couldn't call recruits "piece of ****" in the 70s, Gunny? "Piece of sh*t" was everybody's name in my platoon!

Not within earshot of LtCol. Lawrence, who would usually be lurking around behind a palm tree or at the Mess Hall when you went to chow. This guy was a fanatic about the SOP.

[GSEMarine94]

Explain that to me. I hear it all the time, that a happy Marine is a *****ing Marine. But I've never understood it. How is complaining good, and not complaining a problem?

Try reading Utter's Battalion by Lt. Col. Alex Lee USMC Ret about 2/7's tour in Vietnam from 65-66. He has a pretty good explanation about Marine's *****ing, basically a happy Marine *****es, a scared Marine doesn't say anything. So when Marines stop *****ing it is time to worry.
It also points out that Marines *****ing is not a new thing.

[charm1110]

I went to bootcamp in '85. My Drill Instructors were hard on us but not stupid about it they covered each others a#$%es and kept a pretty good lookout on who was near the platoon area and adjusted their tactics accordingly, I imagine it's the same now. Bootcamp was hard in the past and will continue to be hard for as long as there are Marines for Drill Instructors.

As for after Bootcamp I think it's still hard. Maybe these guys don't have to spit shine boots or press and starch their utilities but I'm sure they do alot more than sit around the campfire singing kumbaya. The whole argument of now vs. then is irrelevant. The world was different then than it is now for the Marine Corps. to stay on top it too must constantly evolve and learn to use current technologies to it's advantage.

Motto 1ST Bn. 5th Marines

"Make Peace or Die"

Motto Bravo Co. 1/5 circa 1986-89

" Get Hard or Die!"

[greybeard]

The recruits have gotten whinier...

Recruits are allowed to whine now? When the hell did that happen?

[Pete0331]

The Marine Corps is getting soft.

Recent events have put the USMC under close scrutiny.
3/1 in Fallujah, MarSOC in Afghanistan, and other little incidences are examples of this.
The GWOT in general has put the entire armed forces under a microscope.
Mothers of America was the first step.
USMC leadership hasn't helped by throwing Marines under the bus with BS charges.

With the GWOT comes good and bad.
Marines who joined after 9/11 expected to go to combat.
But for the most part they can't handle the daily BS of garrison.
Most of them get out after their first enlistment.
They joined to be a combat Marine, not a garrison careerist.
The USMC is losing a lot of solid leadership experience when they leave.

The whole b!tching argument is stupid.
By expecting a Marine to be complaining constantly is what makes them do it in the first place.
I frakkin hate complaining Marines.
I like Marines who see a problem and try to find a solution, not wasting time complaining about it.
Yes, the job can suck a$$ sometimes.
If you can't change that don't waste your time complaining because it doesn't do anything but spread bad morale.
If you can do something about it stop wasting time complaining and find a solution to the problem.

[ColdBlooded]

The only way to a solution on this s**t is getting what you were asked to do done in the first place. Maybe you'll never know what you're doing something for but obviously it's for a reason. That's when people start bit**ing, but in the end they are doing what they were bit**ing about while still bit**ing about it. Right now we are having Marines here in Okinawa smoking a substance called Spice (Similar to Marijuana but with no THC or anything that can be found via **** test.) The people being caught are getting battalion NJPs for it, yet they still argue that it is not marijuana. Guess what? Many fu**ing people are complaining about this matter because they feel it is safe and it is not Marijuana. I have come to a conclusion, I did not join the Marine Corps to listen to people complain and ***** all Godd**m day about small ****. That's all I hear and if this continues, 4 years is it for me.

[HurricaneRJ]

Okay heres a different between *****ing and really *****ing.

Ex. 1.

Just got done from 6 days in the field at Mojave Viper. A Co. is the only one out in the field and the next training exercise is 9 days away. Sure thing, we go back to Camp Wilson shower-up resupply on tobacco and baby wipes and some masturbation and were all happy ready to go. Wrong, CO tells us that we will be staying out in the field for 9 more days doing classes out in the middle of the desert waiting for the rest of the battalion to start the BAC.

Now in my mind, why in the **** do I have to wait out here for 9 more days for a three day field op???? What preventing 13 7 ton trucks taking us back to the rear let alone, I was only told to pack for 5 days to begin with. Tell me BR34 you wouldn't ***** out loud or complain just a little? I was out in Mojave Viper wearing 1 pair of socks for 12 days straight. Bet your ****ing ass I complained about it. Everyone is back taking showers eating at the WC and my Co. was out there in the sun getting tanned, wearing the same dirty ass skiviyes OOHHRAHH Marine Corps.

Ex. 2
Marines are getting taped for the new BCP program. One Marine comes 19%. He *****es a moans about being 1% over and says that it's impossible for him to get in standards and what not. Thats just a Marine *****ing and becoming really annoying. That type is no good.

If you feel that were softer from the Marines before us, then yes.
I don't think any Marine here could phantom living out of tents and marching every ****ing where they went with like the Soldiers in the Civil War. Want to march from VA down on to GA????? Think you would be all motivated OHHRAAH kill em all??? I don't think so. Wanna go back on the old wooden boats, only time eating is in the dark so you don't know what your eating???

Were are not as phyiscally hard as we used to be. But as time goes on things, get better and society becomes smarter. They didn't produce the "Strategic Corporal" as they do today. Are capabilites allow us to let go of somethings.

[Sgt Jim]

When the S**t hits the fan ,who do you want covering your back,I want a Marine,I want a Doc,New or old Corps,Let them B***h all they want.

[BR34]

Okay heres a different between *****ing and really *****ing.

Ex. 1.

Just got done from 6 days in the field at Mojave Viper. A Co. is the only one out in the field and the next training exercise is 9 days away. Sure thing, we go back to Camp Wilson shower-up resupply on tobacco and baby wipes and some masturbation and were all happy ready to go. Wrong, CO tells us that we will be staying out in the field for 9 more days doing classes out in the middle of the desert waiting for the rest of the battalion to start the BAC.

Now in my mind, why in the **** do I have to wait out here for 9 more days for a three day field op???? What preventing 13 7 ton trucks taking us back to the rear let alone, I was only told to pack for 5 days to begin with. Tell me BR34 you wouldn't ***** out loud or complain just a little? I was out in Mojave Viper wearing 1 pair of socks for 12 days straight. Bet your ****ing ass I complained about it. Everyone is back taking showers eating at the WC and my Co. was out there in the sun getting tanned, wearing the same dirty ass skiviyes OOHHRAHH Marine Corps.

Ex. 2
Marines are getting taped for the new BCP program. One Marine comes 19%. He *****es a moans about being 1% over and says that it's impossible for him to get in standards and what not. Thats just a Marine *****ing and becoming really annoying. That type is no good.

If you feel that were softer from the Marines before us, then yes.
I don't think any Marine here could phantom living out of tents and marching every ****ing where they went with like the Soldiers in the Civil War. Want to march from VA down on to GA????? Think you would be all motivated OHHRAAH kill em all??? I don't think so. Wanna go back on the old wooden boats, only time eating is in the dark so you don't know what your eating???

Were are not as phyiscally hard as we used to be. But as time goes on things, get better and society becomes smarter. They didn't produce the "Strategic Corporal" as they do today. Are capabilites allow us to let go of somethings.

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

[GSEMarine94]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

So are you saying that being able to swear makes someone hard? I don't know what kind of jobs you have had but most of the ones I have don't appreciate swearing, it shows a major lack of professionalism and tact. And I have worked in plenty of different fields, from construction equipment mechanic, pizza cook, to architect, as well as being a Marine and now in training to be an Army officer.
To me being hard is the person who under strenous conditions is able to complete a task that most can not, the Marines can still go into any enviroment with half the support and supplies of any other military branch and get the job done.

[ENGR1371]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

I couldn't have said it any better myself! I work with a lot of Marines & go to our League meetings & you can't even raise your voice or cuss! Everyone is always offended in some way or the other. Having my DI smack the **** out of me was the best thing that happened to me! It instilled a lot of discipline into me that taught me to be "HARDCORE!" It taught me to take a hit without backing down, it made me stronger! The DI's taught me to stay alive! No matter what situation I ever got myself into, I'm alive & got myself out of because of what the DI's did to me! I got my world rocked more than once, I deserved it! So I say to you all: Semper Fi!

[Twitchell]

The Corp will still be hard Core if two very important things that are going on right now keep happening.

Wanna be Marines are enlisting "RIGHT NOW" during a time of war when they will most likely be deployed. All the while the glory image, and Patriotic attitude of the American public is now gone, and now scrutinize it because it's no longer the popular thing to do.

On the same note, the Marine Corps is the only branch that isn't seriously struggling to meet enlistment, or re-enlistment numbers. They have pretty much met they're goal over the last couple of years to raise the average number from 175,000 Marines to 202,000 Marines to boot.

My nephew went active with 2/5 a couple of years ago. I know some other kids that have as well. One that just graduated 3 months ago. I would'nt hesitate for a second to go into combat with them. Through our Marine Corp League I know some hella motivated Devil Pups that can't get enough motto and still have a couple of years before they'll ship out.

The new Marines I know, "even if they say the Corp has gotten soft", are still damn fine Marines. Why? Because of they're heart. When it comes down to it, you can't become a Marine without the training. But you can't train a Marine to have heart. You can't even beet it into em.

Weather it gets softer or not, it is the Marines them selves that are going to make the future Marine Corps, not the guidelines. One of the best ways to help accomplish this is for the old Marines to continue to tell storys, to teach them history, and to explain to them that it means more to you then anything, maybe with the exception of your familys. In some cases maybe even more. Believe it or not we are doing that right now on here. With Marine family members and wanna be's looking to us for advise. However if we want to see it go down in flames, then keep saying how it's no longer the same Marine Corp, or in some cases not the Corp at all. That's what's going to kill it. Not the recruits.

[HurricaneRJ]

Did you sign open contract? Or did you WANT to be a grunt?

To me, the whole "Softcore" isn't even about old corps vs new corps, or army vs Marines vs Air Force, etc, the Marine Corps is softer, in general than most jobs I've held. The Marine Corps is one of the easiest, and most pussified jobs I've ever had. I'm 27 years old, and there's actually certain Marines I can't even use profanity around without getting in trouble. I can't argue with someone without getting in trouble. I could go on and on and on.

You all think PT is making us "hardcore"? Are you ****ing kidding me? There's a new PFC here, been out of boot camp for 3 months, and the ****er ran a damn 37 min 3 mile Tuesday! He ain't broken, and he admitted to us that his D.I.s pushed him through. Is he hardcore just because he's wearing Marine Corps cammies?

I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard".

It's the Marines that swear up and down to everyone about how "hardcore" they are that come to work Monday morn with lumps on their head because they got the dog s*it stomped out of them at a bar by some civilian, while they were trying out something they learned at a brown belt course.

I damn sure signed up to be a grunt, and sometimes I beat my head against the wall and sometimes I'm glad I signed up for it. My 4 years wasn't meant to be skate. I realize that but in a moment of tough times some people dig deep and make it through. I never failed a hump, nor quit during team events.

My first night sleeping in Boot Camp I wanted to go home, missed my rack real quick, but I stuck with it, unlike the other ****birds that got dropped and went home because they couldn't take it because they couldn't stand the D.I.s torment. I ALWAYS wanted to grow wings and fly home when I knew I was heading to the Pit. But I stuck with it and made it, and from that I'm a stronger person mentally and physically.

SOI is the other place where the committed stay and the weak go home. Never did drugs on leave and definitely didn't try to cut my wrist like a few in my class did. Was I *****ing, getting only 4 hours of sleep in the field and made to stand two hours in the cold in formation. Yeah, tell me Marines don't ***** about that. So I'm a weak little *****????? I will never compare myself to the Marines of Vietnam. Just read this months Leatherneck about 2/4, those Marines were HARDCORE no doubt. All of them showed courage back then and we still do today. Look at all the Bronze, Silver stars being awarded today. We got brothers going through HELL and back to save a fallen Marine and I definetly won't say thats not HARDCORE. Yeah, so what they ***** back in Garrison but I never heard of a Marine ***** and moan when the JOB needs to get done.

Fallujah 04' is a perfect example of what type of Marines we have today. Knowing full well that insurgents are in the city waiting for you, knowing that you possibly won't come home, and they still went. That to me is Hardcore. I joined the Marine Corps based on those actions of those Marines. I looked at videos when I was 16 years old and I ask myself "Do I have what it takes to be a Marine?" Well 5 years later now I'm here in the very same place where Marines have fought and died.

You haven't been around the whole Marine Corps. Beacuse I know for a fact that in the grunts, you talk back you get hit. Know for a fact that you loose gear, you get ****ed. Know for a fact that my mouth has been bloodied from going in the tree line. Got a problem with a Marine? Go inside the room take off your blouse and your just two men settling it out.
I don't know what your around but come to a grunt unit and see what really goes on.

[BR34]

So are you saying that being able to swear makes someone hard?

No, not at all. But it is def. pussified for the Marine Corps to ban profanity. And in my eyes pussified is the opposite of hardcore.

Marines can still go into any enviroment with half the support and supplies of any other military branch and get the job done.

I'm not arguing that the Marine Corps can't get a job done. I'm not comparing the Marine Corps to other branches. I'm saying, in general, Marines are anything but hard. Better than the Army? Sure. But is that really saying much?

[BR34]

I damn sure signed up to be a grunt, and sometimes I beat my head against the wall and sometimes I'm glad I signed up for it. My 4 years wasn't meant to be skate. I realize that but in a moment of tough times some people dig deep and make it through. I never failed a hump, nor quit during team events.

My first night sleeping in Boot Camp I wanted to go home, missed my rack real quick, but I stuck with it, unlike the other ****birds that got dropped and went home because they couldn't take it because they couldn't stand the D.I.s torment. I ALWAYS wanted to grow wings and fly home when I knew I was heading to the Pit. But I stuck with it and made it, and from that I'm a stronger person mentally and physically.

SOI is the other place where the committed stay and the weak go home. Never did drugs on leave and definitely didn't try to cut my wrist like a few in my class did. Was I *****ing, getting only 4 hours of sleep in the field and made to stand two hours in the cold in formation. Yeah, tell me Marines don't ***** about that. So I'm a weak little *****?????

No, that stuff doesn't make you a weak *****. I wasn't speaking about you when I made that comment, because I don't know you. I was talking about Marines I work with, and I thought I made that clear when I said "I'm surrounded by timid, whispering, talk with their heads down, *****es, day in and day out, and I don't consider a single one of them to be "hard"."

But nothing you just listed makes you hardcore, as far as I'm concerned. It means you did your job, simple as that.

but I never heard of a Marine ***** and moan when the JOB needs to get done.

I don't believe that for one mili-second.

You haven't been around the whole Marine Corps.

No Marine has been around the WHOLE Marine Corps. I don't need to travel to every base or be a part of every unit in the Marine Corps to be able to form opinions of Marines based on the things I've seen.

I don't know what your around but come to a grunt unit and see what really goes on.

To come see Marines fight? Do you honestly think that's something that only goes on in grunt units? The only thing a bloody mouth means to me is you should have zigged when you zagged. Next time try stranglin the culprit with your motivated killer hardcore MCMAP belt.