Marine Boot Camp Drop Out %

[Petz]

I think you're an idiot who needs to learn about statistics and percentages more.

if those numbers are # per Branch/% of drop-outs then you are seeing the percentage of those # per branch that "wash out"... not % of overall services.

and to bring OCS into the picture... you should keep in mind that a DOR doesn't count as a drop-out as in failure/kicked out of the program.

besides... these numbers don't have your male numbers in there so your conclusion has no credence.

[UsmcMotorT]

Recruits going to MCRDPI or MCRDSD wants to be Marines.

Alot of other recruits from other branches join for different reasons ie, bonuses, school, etc. Once they go to their respective bootcamp, they can't take the hollering, physical activites, or whatever they walk over and ring that bell.

I work at Fort Eustis and I work with enlisted and officers all day. I am more amazed at how many dumbass 2nd Lts the Army lets through (Transportation Corps). Some of them do not have a college degree, can't pass some of the tests at their Basic Officer Leadership Course, some don't even run their PFT. They pass many of them through. Most are not accountable for their actions either ie, late for formation, failing a test, etc (no consequences).

Like I say, A lot of these 2nd LTs are PFCs with degrees and their attitude, maturity, and demeanor reflects with my assumption.

[thewookie]

I can think of quite a few schools in the Marines where the instructors are under zero pressure to graduate anyone ... If he don't cut the mustard then bye. Boot camp is not one of those schools.

I agree and that is the way it should be, always. Scout Sniper School is the obvious one that comes to mind. But there is a fine line there also - I agree certain schools shouldn't have any pressure to graduate because of standards that have to be upheld. But in the same breath: why did the student fail? Is it because the instructor is arrogant and not willing to train the student, for a multitude of reasons. If that is the case then the instructor needs to be fired.

I referenced this point earlier in this thread about a school having a high failure rate. When I went to MCSF CQB school they failed 40% of the students that went there, 4 out of the 10 students who went through that school back then went home with nothing. It never happened to me, but I'm sure it's not fun to go back to a command after attending a school with nothing. The main reason why the failure rate at the time was so high wasn't solely because four out of ten students couldn't grasp the concept of violent actions and precision shooting, on the move, in close quarters. It was, in part due to instructor attitude and cockiness - they were a bunch of cocky cowboys that didn't want to train the students properly. I am fine with failing the repeated safety violation gang. But it's the slow learning student that has heart.

When I got the job working at CQB school my goal was to get that failure rate down, one out of ten students was my goal. And the last three classes that I worked there it was 10%.

I think if you have a student/recruit that has heart and wants to be part of a team, in our case a CQB team, then I'm gonna find a way to help him through the process. Provide some extra instruction: maybe a little extra training. But I would absolutely positively go the extra mile to create the opportunity to help that student become part of the team.

I'm not promoting overlooking standards in any way shape or form. I am promoting holding instructors to a standard or level of training that goes beyond the 9-5 training schedule, when necessary.

I knew back in the day that the commands that sent these students to us had been prescreened, the command thought they were capable of performing the duties. Maybe we should dig a little deeper before we send the student home with nothing.

I think the Marine Corps in general does this well, I tink that is the primary reason why our failures rates, for the toughest branch, are lower then what you might expect to see.

[Quinbo]

I could rattle off various schools I've attended that the attrition rate was up there. CQB we dropped about 10% and that was for stuff like flagging the whole team with a loaded weapon etc.

Back to bootcamp... I believe the majority of drops are not because the recruit failed to perform up to standard but because of such things as refusing to train, attempting suicide, major injury etc. A recruit that abolutely can not shoot or swim even after remedial training from the best of the best does not belong at graduation formation.

We can both equate to the marksmanship world so here is a something. After 2 weeks of training a shooter goes UNQ. Do you beat up the coach or the PMI staff? I've seen it tried and the coach in question pointed at his war bag of which every square inch was covered with chevrons from Lt. Col down to PFC. All he said was all those are from expert shooters I have coached and I don't like having an UNQ any more than you.

[Quinbo]

[awbrown1462]

also when I was in we had 2 other plts to send a boot if he was messed up fat plt, motivation plt we also sent a cpl of guys to motivation for a day they came back ready to be Marines I don't think the Army had anything like that

[0231Marine]

MCRD San Diego used to help the Navy recruits like that out. Back in the day, the Navy bootcamp backed up to MCRD SD and the Navy guys would jump the fence thinking they were running away except they landed in a place far worse. After spending a day or two with their new Drill Instructors, they were sent back ready to be Seamen!

Or so I'm told.

[thewookie]

We can both equate to the marksmanship world so here is a something. After 2 weeks of training a shooter goes UNQ. Do you beat up the coach or the PMI staff? I've seen it tried and the coach in question pointed at his war bag of which every square inch was covered with chevrons from Lt. Col down to PFC. All he said was all those are from expert shooters I have coached and I don't like having an UNQ any more than you.

Good point. And to your point - shooting is tough to find the root of the evil because as an instructor, I can't see what you're seeing, so I don't really know exactly where you are going wrong. I can't feel your trigger pull, nor can I see your sights or where you focus on. Sure I can look for clues and memorize shot charts that tell why a group is in a particular location, and with some experience and good training behind me I can probably decipher what to do or where to start to fix you. But what if there is no group, there's a lot of patience and guess work involved.

Coaches/PMI's earn their money with the trouble or problem shooters that's for sure, and that makes or breaks a coach, but without being able to really see or feel what the shooter feels it's tough to place blame on the coach or the instructor. Unless it's absolutely clear the original POI was not clear to the students, but that's a whole different subject.

Unlike something like CQB tactics, with techniques that are supposed to be done a certain way - with a little initiative based tactics thrown in. But, I can clearly see where a student is going wrong, the process they need to perform to make a basic entry are step by step and there is no grey area - clear the doorway, clear the immediate area, clear your corner while sweeping your sector of fire and establishing a dominate position. Black and white. If a student doesn't perform those steps, then you have an easier time with corrections and remediation. Another quick example - teaching Close Order Drill is much easier to remediate, in comparison. The first step of Present Arms is X, followed by Y, and then Z. Do it right and you pass, fail - and I (the instructor) goes back to the steps and starts the remediation there.

I know I have drifted off subject but here's the end of my drawn out point, teaching shooting in my opinion, might be one of the tougher skills there is. Not just teaching the fundamentals, but correcting, more so correcting because there's so much unknown. So placing blame isn't so easy to do.

[maverickmarine]

Holy chit, that's funny!

[BartonAT]

Not sure what it supposedly is but my platoon had 24 percent drop. Avg for company was like 21. 91 and graduated with 70

[m14ed]

Not sure what it supposedly is

but my platoon
had 24 percent drop.

Avg for company was like 21. 91
and graduated with 70

WOW-
I take it you supposedly graduated from HighSchool
at least -
But you can not tell by the way you make a statement
or try ? to not fill out a profile .....

[Rickyw2017]

I went to boot camp in 1982. out of 94 we graduated 68