Strange Discharge

[ese4mc]

BROTHERS & SISTERS--MY BEST FRIENDS SON HAS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ASSISTANCE--HE HAD 2 YOURS IN IRAQ & WAS WOUNDED ON HIS 2ND TOUR--HIS HUMVEE WAS HIT WITH A MORTAR ROUND,THAT KILLED HIS 2 FRIENDS & BLEW HIM OUT OF THE VEHICLE--HE SUFFERED A CONCUSSION,HEARING LOSS IN BOTH EARS & SHRAPNEL IN HIS KNEES---AFTER HIS HOSPITAL STAY HE WAS RETURNED TO CAMP PENDELTON--HE GOT VERY LITTLE MEDICAL ATTENTION,& AFTER TURNING DOWN A CHANCE FOR HIS 3RD TOUR,HE WAS GIVEN LIGHT DUTY TILL HIS DISCHARGE A YEAR LATER--HI JOB AT PENDELTON WAS LIGHT DUTY FOR 2 WEEKS THEN LIGHT DUTY FOR 2 WEEKS,THEN LIGHT DUTY FOR 2 WEEKS,ETC--HE WAS IN PAIN FROM THE CONCUSSION & GOT NO RELIEF FROM THE MEDS HE WAS GIVEN---HE TREATED HIMSELF,BUT FAILED A URINE TEST---HE WAS SENT TO THE BRIG FOR 30 DAYS & GIVEN A MISCONDUCT DISCHARGE--IT HAS BEEN 46 YEARS SINCE HIS FATHER & I SERVED,I WAS EVEN A CHASER FOR A TIME,BUT I NEVER ONCE HEARD THAT TERM---THIS YOUNG MARINE SUFFERS FROM PTSD BADLY,THAT HE CRYS IN HIS SLEEP AT TIMES,CAN NOT WORK,STILL HAS THE SHRAPNEL IN HIS KNEES & HAS NOT WORKED SINCE HIS DISCHARGE--BECAUSE OF HIS PTSD HIS FATHER HAS TO EXCERSISE CAUTION WHEN TRYING TO HELP HIM OUT---YELLING,ARGUING,CRYING,ETC---WOUNDED WARRIORS & DISABLED VETS ARE ATTEMPTING TO HELP,BUT THAT TAKES TIME---I THINK THE START TO HELP HIM OUT STARTS WITH THE DISCHARGE,WHERE DO WE GO TO START TO UPGRADE IT

[Rocky C]

I would get him right to the nearest V.A. Hospital NOW!!! Have him admitted for an Evaluation and treatment First and Foremost and then have your best friend stop at the DAV office and they will start the paper work with a signature from his son for everything. That is what our DAV Brothers do and they do it well.

Semper Fi,
100% SC P&T PTSD.

Rocky

[SGT7477]

I agree get him to a V.A. hospital the sooner the better, Good Luck.

[SSgt Ramsey]

Hate to say this, but with that discharge characterization, he may be ineligible for VA care...as crazy as that sounds...if this is true, perhaps a really good civilian mental health facility is in order.

There are only 5 types of discharge:
Honorable
General under honorable conditions
Other than honorable (OTH)
Bad Conduct (BCD)
Dishonorable

Given that he served 30 days confinement, and the in-service-drug connection, I would venture to say that he received a BCD or Dishonorable discharge characterization.

In some cases, dependent on the type of Courts Martial involved (General or Special etc.) that can be the equivalent of a felony conviction in the civilian world with all the same limitations. I don't know if he received a NJP or CM though...

I hope I'm wrong, hoping I misread and don't understand completely. I may be completely wrong, I dunno...this is gonna be a headscratcher...

[SSgt Ramsey]

This has been bothering me, and I've been cruising the web to see if I can point you in the right direction other than just the addy for the BCNR and their website:

I found this online and copied it for you to check out or send to your friend:

PTSD, VA Benefits & Discharge Upgrade

It is all too common for veterans who are suffering from PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress
Disorder, to also have a less than honorable military discharge, which keeps them from getting help
from the VA for their PTSD. In addition, many vets suffering from PTSD are discharged with a
diagnosis of “personality disorder,” which may delay VA benefits. There are two ways to overcome
these obstacles; change the discharge or get the VA to grant benefits regardless of what the discharge
says. You can pursue both options at the same time and use a positive result from one in support of the
other. You can go to the BCMR, Board for the Correction of Military Records or the DRB, Discharge
Review Board, and ask them to change (upgrade) the military discharge. You can also ask the VA to
grant benefits in spite of the “bad” discharge or the inaccurate diagnosis. The key to both routes is
using a medical opinion as evidence.
The BCMR should upgrade the discharge if they are convinced that either the punishment was
too harsh for the “crimes” that you did or if the military violated discharge procedures. GI‘s who were
suffering from PTSD can argue both points. You can argue that PTSD affected your ability to control
your behavior, and therefore, your misconduct should be forgiven or punished less severely. If there is
evidence of treatment for PTSD or depression or stress while you were still in service, you can also
argue that you should have been given a medical discharge. They will change the reason for discharge
with a medical opinion explaining the “mistake.”
The VARO, VA Regional Office, will initially deny claims from vets with less than honorable
discharges, Bad Conduct Discharges, BCD’s, given in a court martial or General Discharges under
Other Than Honorable conditions, OTH’s, because they can’t give benefits to those who “served
dishonorably.” You can appeal and ask for a “character of service” hearing where you can tell your
story. At this hearing you can use your military records to show that you did not serve dishonorably
until the service connected PTSD affected your ability to serve and that the “misconduct” that resulted
in your bad discharge was minor, out of character and due to untreated PTSD. You can repeat the
arguments that you made to the BCMR and add that if your service connected PTSD had gotten proper
treatment that you would have been given a disability retirement and no misconduct would have
occurred.
These arguments are rarely successful without a properly worded medical opinion as
supporting evidence. The first thing needed is a confirmed diagnosis of PTSD. The doctor doesn’t have
to repeat the specific incidents that caused the PTSD, just what “kind” of incidents, such as combat,
seeing buddies die, treating the wounded etc. Also the opinion need not give specific behavior that is
seen as PTSD “symptoms,” just what “kind” of behavior, such as flashbacks, trouble with anger
control or sleeping, etc. The VA will need specifics in order to assign a “degree of disability rating,”
especially if the PTSD causes “unemployability.” When appropriate, the medical opinion needs to
explain the cause and effect of combat leading to stress severe enough to lead to misconduct resulting
in the bad discharge.
It’s important to tell a doctor who might be willing to help on this issue that their conclusions
don’t have to be “absolutely,” 100% certain. The VA’s “benefit of doubt” doctrine means that the
evidence for and against a certain conclusion is “weighed” and the vet wins if there is at least an
“approximate balance” of this the evidence. The doctors need to express their “degree of certainty” in
the opinion. The VA is looking for a phrase such as “at least as likely as not.”
The doctor may not feel confident that they’re giving an accurate opinion without seeing some
kind of verification of the veteran’s history from someone other than the veteran. This is where you
can use military records to verify service and prior medical treatment records and statements from
friends or family to verify the vet’s behavior. These “buddy statements” should start with “I hereby
swear the following to be true…” and the signature should be notarized. This makes it an “affidavit.”
These should also be submitted to the VA.
At this point the VARO will see this as a claim that the PTSD is service connected and will
want to look in official military records in order to confirm that the PTSD “stressors” (the incidents
that caused the PTSD) really happened. However, the doctor doesn’t need to wait for this verification
and can simply say that the history given by the veteran would cause PTSD. The VA will need to make
two separate determinations, that the “character of service” was not dishonorable and that the PTSD is
“service connected.”
This is just a brief overview. Case specific details will be needed for further advice.

[KawiGunny]

I would get him right to the nearest V.A. Hospital NOW!!! Have him admitted for an Evaluation and treatment First and Foremost and then have your best friend stop at the DAV office and they will start the paper work with a signature from his son for everything. That is what our DAV Brothers do and they do it well.

Semper Fi,
100% SC P&T PTSD.

Rocky

Keep in mind that you can't have him admitted for psycological issues unless he admits to it. A mother of a wound Marine down in Virginia Beach tried to get her son admitted because of suicidal tendencies. They refused because he didn't want to be there. This young Marine was diagnosed with severe PTSD and TBI.

[SSgt Ramsey]

Gunny:

I believe that they can be admitted if they are deemed dangerous to others or suicidal and does not require a request for treatment from the patient. I could be wrong though...not trying to collide with you on this.

But, I'm sure this varies state-to-state also....

I don't know if this would require a court-order in this circumstance.

[KawiGunny]

Gunny:

I believe that they can be admitted if they are deemed dangerous to others or suicidal and does not require a request for treatment from the patient. I could be wrong though...not trying to collide with you on this.

But, I'm sure this varies state-to-state also....

I don't know if this would require a court-order in this circumstance.

I'm not sure of all the details surrounding the incident I spoke of. My wife (Gunny) is the M4L rep for the Norfolk area. Her LtCol called her one night and said they needed her to go this this Marines house and explained what I mentioned. She went over that night. The Marine has been refussing to take his meds and had made several suicidal gestures and comments in front of his mom. The mother was told at the VA that they couldn't admit him because of her say-so. Thats when the mom called the Wounded Warrior hotline for help.

Maybe that just the way that VA works. I don't know.

[SSgt Ramsey]

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me...the VA is an archaic abortion that needs to be restructured from the ground up, many "leaders" fired, some charged with criminal acts and imprisoned indefinitely for crimes against Veteran's and families.

If the VA can exploit this poor Marine's discharge characterization, my initial feeling is they'll turn their back on him and deny him care.

[KawiGunny]

Sadly, that doesn't surprise me...the VA is an archaic abortion that needs to be restructured from the ground up, many "leaders" fired, some charged with criminal acts and imprisoned indefinitely for crimes against Veteran's and families.

If the VA can exploit this poor Marine's discharge characterization, my initial feeling is they'll turn their back on him and deny him care.

Lets hope this doesn't happen.

[SSgt Ramsey]

Agree wholeheartedly Gunny...but from recent events in the media and the nightmare I'm having with these asshats and the 2nd denial of benefits to me, I have absolutely NO faith or confidence in this organization.

How many times has the VA been caught lying and destroying evidence to avoid paying $$ to people and benefits they've earned.

When you have the 2nd largest Governmental agency that basically has no oversite mired in beaurocracy and they "police" themselves by a Dept within their umbrella (read: VA Inspector General), it's bound to not be good for the people they are responisble to.

You know, deny, deny, deny.

[KawiGunny]

Agree wholeheartedly Gunny...but from recent events in the media and the nightmare I'm having with these asshats and the 2nd denial of benefits to me, I have absolutely NO faith or confidence in this organization.

How many times has the VA been caught lying and destroying evidence to avoid paying $$ to people and benefits they've earned.

When you have the 2nd largest Governmental agency that basically has no oversite mired in beaurocracy and they "police" themselves by a Dept within their umbrella (read: VA Inspector General), it's bound to not be good for the people they are responisble to.

You know, deny, deny, deny.

Very true. Congress and anyone else can say what they want but until they go their and personally look over their shoulders while they work, nothing is going to change.

[oldtop]

He is elligable for treatment and/or service connected compensation as long as he has any discharge other than DISHONORABLE. A other than honorable discharge will not bar him from treatment or compensation. Submit to the Discharge Review Board for a possible upgrade of his discharge. A medical opinion from a PTSD psychiatrist or psychologist that he was and is suffering from PTSD and was getting inadequate medical help which resulted in him self-medicating for pain and/or PTSD might provide just the migitating circumstances he needs to sway the board in his favor and get that discharge upgraded to an honorable. Even if he retains the RE4 reenlistment code that will not matter.

[Marine84]

Trick him.

My brother was a junkie (I know it ain't the same as PTSD but it's still a demon). He got up one morning pi$$ed off at the world (jonesin' cause he didn't have anything) so I tricked him. I told him to get in the car and I took him to the ER at the local hospital the whole time telling him to lie about being in pain when he got in there (it wouldn't be the first time he had done it). While he was in the room waiting, I told the nurses that I needed to speak to the Dr before he went in to see my brother. I spilled my heart/guts/soul to this man and told him to test his urine if he didn't believe me. He did and Mike (my brother) popped positive for 7 different drugs. Once Mike figured out what was going on, he bucked and tried to leave the hospital. I told the nurses to call the police and I chased Mike out into the parking lot, the police met us out there and we got Mike back into the ER. One of the policemen posted beside the door of the room Mike was in and kept him from leaving again. The whole time Mike is raising hell at me AND the police. The Dr gave Mike something to quieten him down and next thing I knew they were escorting him out the door in cuffs to a STATE FUNDED REHAB. Mike's actions backed up my story to the Dr and I got him help.

Point being - the hell with the VA and trying to get all this nonsense taken care of before you try to get him help. Check in your state to see what kind of mental health places are state funded and you can get him in through a hospital maybe and nobody has to worry about the money. ESPECIALLY if he's still "medicating himself". He can work on the VA once he gets his foot in the door somewhere else.

Good luck. I know it's a shot in the dark but, sometimes you get lucky and make that hit.

[CH53MetalMan]

Trick him.

My brother was a junkie (I know it ain't the same as PTSD but it's still a demon). He got up one morning pi$$ed off at the world (jonesin' cause he didn't have anything) so I tricked him. I told him to get in the car and I took him to the ER at the local hospital the whole time telling him to lie about being in pain when he got in there (it wouldn't be the first time he had done it). While he was in the room waiting, I told the nurses that I needed to speak to the Dr before he went in to see my brother. I spilled my heart/guts/soul to this man and told him to test his urine if he didn't believe me. He did and Mike (my brother) popped positive for 7 different drugs. Once Mike figured out what was going on, he bucked and tried to leave the hospital. I told the nurses to call the police and I chased Mike out into the parking lot, the police met us out there and we got Mike back into the ER. One of the policemen posted beside the door of the room Mike was in and kept him from leaving again. The whole time Mike is raising hell at me AND the police. The Dr gave Mike something to quieten him down and next thing I knew they were escorting him out the door in cuffs to a STATE FUNDED REHAB. Mike's actions backed up my story to the Dr and I got him help.

Point being - the hell with the VA and trying to get all this nonsense taken care of before you try to get him help. Check in your state to see what kind of mental health places are state funded and you can get him in through a hospital maybe and nobody has to worry about the money. ESPECIALLY if he's still "medicating himself". He can work on the VA once he gets his foot in the door somewhere else.

Good luck. I know it's a shot in the dark but, sometimes you get lucky and make that hit.

Outstanding!

Great idea, it might be best to pull an end run around the VA as they are set-up to have a closed door policy in this kids case.