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11-20-08, 04:58 PM #16
SOI instructors are not holding a b-billet. They are holding a billet not part of the deployable FMF. What would your criteria be? I held the billet of combat marksmanship instructor and coached a lot of lieutenants across the rifle range. Not a b-billet but a combat instructor billet for sure. Where would it end? MCIWS ... Marine Combat Instructor Water Survival? SEER school instructors? Mountain warfare instructors at bridgeport? How bout the instructors at SAWIC, or Breachers, or Sniper school? Most of them probably wouldn't even want the damn thing.
11-20-08, 05:06 PM #17
Not my criteria. I was actually figuring there would be at least one actual CI on here with an opinion. It's not just about a theoretical CI ribbon-that's already been ruled out.
11-20-08, 06:08 PM #18
11-20-08, 09:43 PM #19
Take it from someone that knows, if the Corps had a ribbon, medal, or badge for everything we do, then we'd look like the Army. Trust me, The Army is very free with ribbons and such, but be reasonable Marines, do you really want to take the time to place all that chest candy, just right, before you wear those ribbon bars? It's pain in the ass! I only wore my top 5 ribbons while I was in the Army, the rest be damed! I was questioned, more than once about it, but that was my right, soooo...... the heck with it.
After a while we'd have a patch on both sleeves, our chevrons, service stripes, our overseas stripes, A NCO school and/or a DI/Recruiter Badge on the pockets plus the shooting badges, jump wings, CIB and so forth, the US insignia and the Branch insignia on the collars, oh and what about wearing the Beret? Yep we'd look just like Soldiers.
11-20-08, 10:35 PM #20
So we all still agree there is no need for all the ribbons. Thought someone would have an idea on where to go from here. Discontinue it? Can't take them back once awarded..
11-21-08, 02:21 AM #21
11-21-08, 06:51 AM #22
02-20-09, 05:34 PM #23
From a CI
Just a thought from a former CI at ITB East.........
I left the schoolhouse last March. I remember talking about this whole ribbon BS when I worked over there. I think as any self respecting infantryman will tell you, its not whats on your chest that counts. People that don't have ribbons want them, and those that have them don't. Before people start flaming me for this, I have 12 total including a CAR and medals with "V"s, not to say I'm full of combat bada$$ness, because there are Marines out there that have done a whole lot more than I did or ever will but thats 12 more ribbons than I care to make sure are squared away every time I put on something other than my cammies. It gets downright expensive remounting stuff everytime you get a new star or ribbon.
We had a little sit down with LtGen Mattis, CG of MCCDC at the time once, and MajGen dont remember his name now, CG of TECOM. All of us at ITB were placing bets on how many questions would be asked before some dumb POG at MCT asked about a freaking ribbon. I can tell you that none of us at ITB really cared about a ribbon. Whether or not I got a ribbon out of it wasn't on my mind when I asked to go to ITB. All we wanted was equal SDA pay. That says a lot more about how the USMC cares for us than any ribbon ever would.
Now that being said, I have to agree with the CMC about looking like the army. But, it's either all or none. If they won't give the 0913 MOS (Combat Instructor) a ribbon, then take away the MSG, Recruiting, and DI ribbons. Plain and simple. See how many prior hat 1stSgts and SgtsMaj (read MOST of them) go up in arms over that one. How many of those guys would lose their DI ribbon with 14 stars to denote an entire career of fleet dodging at the Depot. My current 1stSgt still can't come to grips with the fact that ITB is a B Billet, and Infantry Unit Leaders Course is considered resident PME just like the staff academy. Don't take this as a flame, all you prior hats out there, I'm just a little jaded towards prior hats. Leave the Depot at the Depot. Give those of us that opted for CI duty some respect.
All that crap about he would take them away if he could is crap. He CAN! He's the CMC for cryin out loud. In the Marines, he outranks God himself. All he would have to do is publish the ALMAR or MARADMIN saying, sorry folks, no more DI/MSG/Recruiting ribbons.
My favorite line from those that have a DI/MSG/Recruiting ribbon (mainly the DIs) is that CI duty isn't as hard. I'm not saying that DIs don't work hard, because Lord knows they have one of the toughest jobs in the Marines, however, I challenge them to put in some time training students with me at SOI. The general understanding with my wife was when I picked up a cycle, I'd see her when I graduated them in 7 weeks. Many a morning at 0430 until many a night at 2200 or 0100. Why the long hours, you ask? Because I cared about my students. Many of them would be deploying to Iraq/Afghanistan soon after graduating and I knew that this might be the last time they got a particular type of training.
Anyhow, just some 2 cents from a former CI.
02-20-09, 06:01 PM #24
02-20-09, 09:45 PM #25
Overlapping awards need to be abolished.
National Defense Medal, whats the point.
Not to disrespect the members here that have one, but the Bronze Star Medal ****es me off more then anything the way it is awarded now.
My last combat deployment BSM's were more commonly awarded then the NAM with Valor device.
Little rant, carry on.
02-21-09, 10:11 AM #26
I am not much for every job getting a ribbon. But I do think that a DI should and that is where I would leave it.
02-21-09, 02:24 PM #27
The purpose of ribbons are to show where you have been and what you have done. I know some of the other services hand them out like candy, and I like it that the Corps has the higher standard. I am on MSG duty now, and I think that any Marine who has done MSG deserves a ribbon. It is a tough duty, especially when you are stationed in a sh!t hole (I have been stationed in two). Iraq is a luxury compared to where I am at. I could go all day on why Cuba is a piece of sh!t, but that's not the topic of my discussion. When there is a shortage of MSG's, that means the current MSG's will have to pick up the slack (work double duties, double collats, etc.). Our numbers are hurting right now, and the ribbon is the strongest motivation for Marines to volunteer for this duty. If they take away the ribbon, they would have to make this duty mandatory.
I believe that DI's deserve a ribbon as well, we all know how hard they work. They sacrifice a lot for their job, and they have earned that ribbon. Recruiters.... they can go either way. I know it is a stressful duty, so I won't complain about their ribbon. Combat instructors I do not believe rate a ribbon. You give them a ribbon, then you have to give mos school instructors a ribbon as well. In my mind, combat instructors do not work as hard as the other b-billets- at least not what I have seen. Their job really isn't that stressful, and they pretty much get to go home every night. They should just be lucky it counts as a b-billet. This is my two cents, if you disagree- I will argue, but if you agree- then we have reached an understanding.
02-21-09, 03:20 PM #28
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!...REAL MARINES, don't give a SH!T about ribbons, and medals!!! Remember your PRIORITIES!! Kill the enemy, cover your buddy's butt, follow your superior's orders, and keep your FVCKING MOUTH SHUT!!!!....PERIOD!....DOC
....."Doc Greek UP!!".....
02-21-09, 04:31 PM #29
I can't imagine what tough duty MSG is but barracks was 6 on 6 off. Libbo was 18 hours and squeeze some PT in there.
03-03-09, 05:28 AM #30
Interesting discussion here. On a personal level, I know my recruiter worked nearly round the clock trying to get civilians into the Corps. I also know my Drill Instructors were constantly at work, training the nastys to be disciplined Marines.
Still on a personal level, my combat instructors had days off, usually two-three at a time. I would have usually one CI with the platoon at a time. They would work in approximately 12 hour shifts, or so it seemed at the time. They had a lot of time away from the platoon, and we rarely even saw our Platoon Commander.
My Drill Instructors, on the other hand, were constantly with us. There was rarely a time when one of them was missing from us. Usually one was only missing because he was prepping for what was to come.
Also, Recruit Training was 13 weeks. MCT was 29 days. I understand SOI is about as long as boot camp, and I also don't know how hard SOI instructors work compared to MCT instructors.
But, just based on my own experience, if CIs get a ribbon, I don't think MCT instructors put in enough work for one. I'm not saying I know more than they do, or that I do more work, or what have you, but it just seems like it does not rate a ribbon. Again, I can't talk about SOI instructors, as I have no dealing with them.
Just my two cents.
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