Traditions

[pnwhite]

Well call me a "b****er." I was always told that if you can't contribute to the solution, then don't b**** about the problem (or something like that - and probably the motivating force behind my 100% voting record). So after all these years of trying to contribute to the solution and getting nowhere, I resorted to just "***ching." And here's my latest two, hopefully to an appreciative audience.
1. A couple years ago, I was in Barnes and Noble and just looking at the books on the sale table while my wife was looking for something she wanted. I saw this large, slick book about the U.S.M.C. that was mostly pictures, (these type of books are called "coffee table" books)many of which I had seen before, but a lot of new ones too. I just opened it up and was looking through it when I came to a page that had a couple terms on it, one of which was the term "leatherneck". I can't remember what their definition was, but it wasn't what I had remembered from my training back in the early 60s. I think I kissed it off by reasoning that with that kind of editing, no wonder this book was on the sales table, but it did bother me. Then about a year later, we were invited to a 4th of July cookout with a younger couple that the husband had fought in Nam and was quite a bit more gung-ho about the Corps than I am. He had 2 books about the Corps and when I mentioned to him the book I had seen, he hauled out the 2 books he had and would you believe it that neither of those other books had the definition correct either. Now I'm 68 years old and I can attest to the fact that my memory isn't quite what it once was, but some things you never forget. He was amazed also and he agreed with me in the definition of leatherneck. So, it was reassuring to read the correct definition on the Heritage Press International website that Eldiablo put on a message I read about 10 minutes ago.
2. My other "*i***." I have noticed it and didn't quite know what to think about it, but having been a leatherneck and also a Scoutmaster, it kinda perturbs me to see the American flag that is flown on the right shoulder sleeve of the camo uniform worn by our servicemen today. I can't say that I have noticed the Marine Corps camos because most of the pictures in the paper are of Army soldiers, but there was a question about this in the paper a year or so back, in one of those question/answer articles that appear in our paper every couple weeks. (Notice I said I was a **t**er?) I didn't write in to the editor or anything like that, I have just been stewing about it ever since. My problem was with the answer that some obviously young person had given. That person said something to the effect that the reason it was changed was to represent the flag "flying" in the breeze. Now that is the most disgraceful explanation I have ever heard for changing a "tradition" that is probably over 200 years old. I don't know when the change was made, but just jumping to conclusions, I can just see Rumsfeld or Chaney (not our beloved poor George with his 90 IQ) putting out an edict making the change and then requiring the Defense Department to purchase all those new patches from their company, or one they have stock in. That would make more "sense" than the answer about the flag flying in the breeze.

[sparkie]

Those patches were made by a foreign company, which was a scandel in itself. When I see one on my son in law's shoulder, it looks damm backwards and offensive to me.

[semperfi170]

Check out the Boy Scout uniforms that have been standard since approximately the late 80's. The flag on the right shoulder faces the same way it does on Army uniforms.

[jrhd97]

Some bone head probably decided instead of making every one change there existing patches we'll just slap them on the right shoulder. Giving no thought to it being backwards. Typical government thoroughness.

[pnwhite]

Well Semperfi170- I had to go upstairs and check my Scoutmasters uniform which I bought in about 1988. On the right shoulder it has the flag flying horizontally with the blue field in the upper left hand corner. The pictures of recent military camo uniforms has the flag with the field in the upper right hand corner. Now the Marine Corp battle clothes (I don't know what you call them now - I guess they are called camos - when I was in they were called fatigues) may be different. Like I said, I can't say specifically that I have seen a Marine in camos, but I have seen plenty of Army and National Guard soldiers and the flag is "backwards". Also, now that we are talking about it, I remember that you couldn't be off base or at least off duty and off base wearing your "fatigues". Seems to be pretty much standard procedure nowadays.

[crate78]

When I was active in the '50's and '60's, Army wore fatigues. Marines wore utilities. (Or utilees, like we called them.)

crate

[jrhd97]

When I was active in the '50's and '60's, Army wore fatigues. Marines wore utilities. (Or utilees, like we called them.)

crate

I remember them beign utilities also.

[YutYut]

Yeah, the explanation I heard about the patch was that it went back to when someone lead the platoon/company/etc with the colors in hand. It's supposed to symbolize the colors charging into battle.

[pnwhite]

That's about what this article said except it didn't refer to someone charging into battle. It was something like when you would be carrying the flag it would be pointing to the back. I'm really impressed by that explanation! My thought was and still is "Why,,,,,after so many years do they have to change this part of the uniform? Don't they have better things to wrap their minds around than which way the flag is flying on a uniform? How about concentrating on something like ben Laden or Taliban or al Queda? The flag?????

[Chumley]

Well Semperfi170- I had to go upstairs and check my Scoutmasters uniform which I bought in about 1988. On the right shoulder it has the flag flying horizontally with the blue field in the upper left hand corner. The pictures of recent military camo uniforms has the flag with the field in the upper right hand corner. Now the Marine Corp battle clothes (I don't know what you call them now - I guess they are called camos - when I was in they were called fatigues) may be different. Like I said, I can't say specifically that I have seen a Marine in camos, but I have seen plenty of Army and National Guard soldiers and the flag is "backwards". Also, now that we are talking about it, I remember that you couldn't be off base or at least off duty and off base wearing your "fatigues". Seems to be pretty much standard procedure nowadays.

This should make you feel a bit at ease. I don't know when, but the USMC does not have a US flag on any current uniform that I know of. At some point we got it all figured out about which country we fight for and haven't needed any reminder since then. The Army however, well, they need to be reminded, but aren't sure whether they are coming or going, so there's apparently some confusion as to which way the flag faces. Flag waving from charging into battle - what a crock - it's some lame excuse for buying the cheapest ones off the GSA contract from Indonesia or someplace... They were utilities when I was in also.

[pnwhite]

Chumley and other bros - I sure wish I had found this website earlier! It would have saved me so much anguish and consternation! It just goes to show that 2 heads are better than 1, and it certainly is comforting to be able to get my buddies to keep me straight. That's one problem I don't have to worry about anymore.

[sparkie]

It scares me,,,,,, the patch is velcro,,,,,,, easly replaced with a UN patch. Scares the fuk outta me,,,,,,,,,,I'm glad the USMC ain't duin that.

[sparkie]

Chumley and other bros - I sure wish I had found this website earlier! It would have saved me so much anguish and consternation! It just goes to show that 2 heads are better than 1, and it certainly is comforting to be able to get my buddies to keep me straight. That's one problem I don't have to worry about anymore.

Welcome aboard, Marine.

[YutYut]

And hope you don't get something caught on any of your velcro patches in a tactical environment.

Welcome aboard Devil.