Your Thoughts M-16

[CBS]

It wasn't so much Colt BS, as it was DoD BS. McNamara's wonder boys had a lot to do with forcing the M16 onto the Army, thence to the Marine Corps. The Air Force was an early and willing adopter of the precursor AR15, so that didn't help matters.

The Army wanted a bolt forward assist on the M16 from the beginning, but McNamara and his whiz kids thought the Army was just stonewalling (which the Army was, but they were trying to improve the rifle before bowing to the inevitible). DoD felt if a bolt forward assist was needed, Eugene Stoner would have put one on to start with.

The Army also wanted the chamber chrome plated to aid extraction. But again, DoD refused claiming it wasn't a necessary expense.

Third, and probably the worst, the gunpowder was formulated wrong for the type of gas-action used by the M16. This created much more crud and with an un-chromed chamber, led to the major malfunctions seen in the field (failure to extract and/or eject). This was the fault of the Army ordinance people as they ignored Stoner on the subject.

Added to the mix was the way the Army and Marines initially dumped the rifles onto the troops. Little training in maintenance led to poorly done maintenance. However, this was actually the minor part of the problem since it didn't take long for even a wonderfully cleaned M16 to screw up with dirty powder and un-chromed chamber.

Finally someone woke up at DoD. The M16A1 came out with the chromed chamber and a forward assist. The gunpowder was changed to a better formulation and along with more training on the weapon, reliability improved markedly. I can't recall having any problems with my M16A1s while in the Corps, except when using blanks.

The Air Force never went to the M16A1 as a general issue weapon. They retrofitted their AR15s and M16s with chromed barrels and carried on. I used an AR15 as my issue rifle for a number of years in the Air Guard and I had no problems with it, except when using blanks. I eventually went over to a CAR that did have a forward assist, but I never remember having to use it, except when using blanks.

While you speak of things that I've read and agree with for the most part, I'd like to add a little more sauce to the mixture. Someone in HIGH places had a munitions contract for the M-16 and thusly the rfiles success in combat. This someone just recently died but her family is remains prominent in the American landscape for her husband was a President of
these here United States. Someone has a lot of 'blood money' and will have to answer for it eventually !! Meantime the poor grunt, again, receives the shaft !!

[JRHD72]

I own an M1 an I shot the 14 in boot. The 16 is a piece o chit! 4 yrs active n 4 crossed rifles

[BadLuckChuck]

It's not that bad of a rifle I mean sure it was made by Mattel but whatever. If i'm in the suck and i find an AK lying around I'll break the old 16 down but if not I won't cry about it.

The biggest cock up i think was replacing the 1911 .45 with the M9 now that is a worthless firearm.

[Petz]

the only good thing about that is the field expedient cleaning.... look into it, that's the main motivator for switching.

[CBS]

What do you think of the M-16


My personal experience with it in Vietnam was
a simple one. Fire one round and then punch the bore as the Commies fired their AK-47 without stopping. It created many a Marines death and a class-action lawsuit in the 9th Distrcit Court in San Francisco. I can't stand the site of one to this day and now I'm told the Marines in Iraq are using M-14s or anything else they can find. No knock-down power......
really imagine that ? Since April of 1967 when
they were issued out at Dong Ha...wow, we really do support our troops.....with junk!!


What are your thoughts and personal experiences with this weapon ?

SEMPER FI............>Chuck[/quote]

Gentlemen: More good news....watch your weapon !!

http://www.liquibyte.com/image/officer.pdf

SEMPER FI.........>CHUCK

[Quinbo]

LOL .... the M-16 was not .... read my lips not.... manufatured by mattel. There were some plastic parts made by mattel for the AR-15 but even then there is no mickey mouse stamp on them. I'm a boot so all I have ever known is the M-16. I am biased in that regard because I never carried anything else into combat.

[FistFu68]

I CAN REMEMBER LAYING IN A'LOT OF AMBUSHES @ L.P."KILLER TEAMS".WITH THE DUST GUARD DOWN,OUR WAY OF FORWARD ASSIST;WAS A PUSH ON THE SIDE OF BOLT FORWARD TOO SEAT A ROUND.HABIT I STILL HAVE 2DAY WITH MY NEW AR-15.USED TOO CARRY LUBE FOR MY RIFLE "IN COUNTRY" IN EMPTY BUGG JUICE BOTTLE.USED TOO SOAK THE BOLT ASSEMBLY AREA.I PERSONALLY NEVER HAD ONE JAM,NOT EVEN THE 2DAY SHOOTOUT;W/ THE NVA.IN AH SHAU VALLEY.I'D GO TOO WAR WITH A NEW ONE WITHOUT RESERVATION!!!

[montana]

a grunt from third plt got in close on a killer team...did a virtical but stroke to the head fo the first gook....the second one he had to hit with tha barrel because the stalk wasnt there anymore...he said he went from John Wayne to supper chicken the rest of the night...walking around with that usless weapon...he went to the M14 after that...there were quite a few packing the M14 in 69/70...saw some of the 16s rounds do a great deal of damage to the gooks they hit...but other times saw them hit and not even slow them down....every one i hit with the 14 droped even one enraged water buffalow...something the 16 could not do...never liked it and still dont...M14 brought me home

[FistFu68]

I NEVER SAW A GOOK OR BUNKER IN A FIREFIGHT THAT WAS MORE THAN 30YRDS FROM US.PLUS WE USED THE BOYONET LUG 4A REASON!I GUESS THE OLD SAYING DIFFERENT STROKES 4 DIFFERENT FOLK'S,HAD SUM SUBSTANCE BEHIND IT???

[Petz]

not every weapon is going to satisfy every situation, or person. I appreciate the controversy over this weapon because it's a perfect example of our money mongering politicians who make certain things happen regardless of the cost of human lives (haliburton KBR killed 14 service members in country due to bad wiring) just to make that money. Who are they to do this to us and get away with it?

On another note, the M16 has been in service long enough now to have it's problems fixed... so they can learn from mistakes, it's just how they correct the problem that more important. Instead of just fixing what people gripped about they should have fixed the way they acquire new service weapons too.

[ROTORORDY]

its okay but the thing jams too much and the gas coupling bends almost every time i fire it for some reason i dont know why. thats my input