USMC Rank Chevrons through the ages..since 1917 - Page 3
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  1. #31
    Sgt....Thanks, Good job,Really cool......Which ones did they wear at the battle of Gettysburg?


  2. #32
    Squad Leader Platinum Member Zulu 36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplKJSpevak
    Sgt....Thanks, Good job,Really cool......Which ones did they wear at the battle of Gettysburg?
    Check with bucksgted, he might have personal knowledge.


  3. #33
    This is some good info. I just learned a lot.

    This deserves to be stickied!


  4. #34
    Awesome thread Lep, fascinating history of the Corps rank structure. Interesting how it changed every few years from 1912 to 1959, yet our current structure has remained the same for the past 50 years.

    Is there any reason why it formerly changed so frequently, or why our current structure has withstood the test of time?


  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Leprechaun View Post


    Courtesy of HH Booker. Love the pay scale. This is a pocket chart, BTW which is why it's so small. Dated 1939.
    To explain the confusion over the 1stSgt having two rockers. Prior to the war in or about 1942ish to be exact the Army and Marines had 1st Sergeant listed as a "Grade 2" Hence why on that chart they are only making the same as a Technical Sergeant. In 1942 the pay structure was revised (Pvts would make $50, Pfcs $54 for example) and 1stSgt became a "Grade 1" rank and the extra rocker was added to put it on "equal footing" with MSgt. Also the Marine ranks were adjusted into their Line (rockers) and Staff (bars) designations including the addition of Gunnery Sergeant, Master Gunnery Sergeant, and Platoon Sergeant.

    Also dealing with Master Sergeant. It is the top rank for the Marines/Army of this time period. Sergeant Major was a billet (for both services) during the war and never an official rank until later.


  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ameriken View Post
    Awesome thread Lep, fascinating history of the Corps rank structure. Interesting how it changed every few years from 1912 to 1959, yet our current structure has remained the same for the past 50 years.

    Is there any reason why it formerly changed so frequently, or why our current structure has withstood the test of time?
    Simplification. The WWI-1920's structure had more ranks then we've seen here. It was a nightmare when you had Bugle Sergeant 2nd Grade, 1st Class (over exaggeration). But naturally this made it hard to keep things uniform and you had blokes with stripes and insignia of all varieties everywhere.

    I think also the War Department had a movement to standardize pay amongst the services as you can see they all cut down on their originally large amounts of ranks/titles and eventually came to a simple system come WW2 which was toyed with until everything was fully standardized under the DoD.


  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ameriken View Post
    Awesome thread Lep, fascinating history of the Corps rank structure. Interesting how it changed every few years from 1912 to 1959, yet our current structure has remained the same for the past 50 years.

    Is there any reason why it formerly changed so frequently, or why our current structure has withstood the test of time?
    Look at rank structure from the bottom up, look at their pay and look at control. I can't speak for the times prior to mine, but in the mid to late 50's technology was literally booming. The only way to keep "knowledge" in the Corps was to pay more. At the time the only way to pay more was to promote. This created a very top heavy Marine Corps. Compare rank and pay grade of the mid 50s to today. Everybody promoted in 1959 and later, after PFC, got a one level pay raise without the accompanying "stripes". Bringing the L/Cpl position back, let the Corps pay more, but just as importantly, it automatically reduced the numbers of NCOs. When you look at cutting scores in todays world, you'll see a concerted effort to maintain the ratios of Pvts to PFCs, to Cpls, to Sgts, etc. etc. All of this has put the Corps in a better "top down" position. The Marine Corps is no different from any other business when it comes to pay and control. OUR BUSINESS, however, is a little different from most others. LMAO

    This concludes today's lecture. Class dismissed. I'll take questions after class for those that would like more discussion. LOL


  8. #38
    Thanks Ken.

    GIrene pretty much nails it. As does bucksgt.

    Basically, the move to 'standardize' rank and pay service wide led to the changes, circa about 1958, to the system we have today. The Marine Corps has been loath to mess with it, other services, not so much (the Air Force is a perfect example, a 'Sgt' in 1983, for example, wore a different chevron than a Senior Airman, even though both were the same pay grade. Today there is no 'Sgt' rank....)


  9. #39
    Thanks GIrene, Ed, and Lep. Quite a fascinating history lesson.


  10. #40
    If those were the ranks of 80years ago, imagine the rank system 80years from now?

    And great post, learned a lot about how the ranks were back in the early 1900's. And would anyone be able to clarify why there was so many band related ranks?


  11. #41
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    Great Job Sgt. Lep.
    Thats was a lot of work.
    Thanks to all who contributed!!!
    Semper Fi,
    Rocky


  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by MLMonk View Post
    If those were the ranks of 80years ago, imagine the rank system 80years from now?

    And great post, learned a lot about how the ranks were back in the early 1900's. And would anyone be able to clarify why there was so many band related ranks?
    Musicians and Cooks were traditionally given their own names. Back in the days when Mess Sergeant was a rank back at least in the mid-19th Century. In WW2 the ranks and insignia were the same but the titles were different for Musicians and Cooks... I'll see if I can dig them up.


  13. #43
    Glad you guys are enjoying it!

    Musicians and Cooks were considered 'speciality' rates of a different order/class than just 'regular' Marines. (Marine Band still does this today BTW). Because these skills were not something that just any Marine could do, they were given their own rank structure and insignia.

    Each unit had a specified number, and rank, of cooks and bandsmen (including buglers). Each of those specialities had their own NCO and higher ranks, allowing for promotions (which were largely based on both availability and merit).


  14. #44
    Interesting thread Sgt.Lep,I hope crossed rifles will remain forever.I think it defines a Marine.


  15. #45
    AHA found it:

    http://www.ww2gyrene.org/rank_structure.htm

    Very interesting in all too!


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