Either Fight The War Or Come Home

[thedrifter]

EITHER FIGHT THE WAR OR COME HOME

According to Gallup, 59 percent of Americans say it’s time to start bringing the troops home.

I think I’m one of them.

I think if we’re going to hamstring our troops in Iraq, and doom them to the daily grind of improvised explosive devices, we might as well bring them home.

They’d be more usefully deployed along our border with Mexico.

See, it’s the “go big or go home” principle, a variation on the “is you is or is you ain’t” theme. If you’re going to fight a war, fight a war. If you’re not, let’s get back in the barracks.

Doing anything else wastes the lives of your troops, fails to achieve your objective and gives fuel to your enemies. The difference between this and Vietnam is it was a lot more humid in Vietnam.

Don’t get me wrong. I support the war. I think we were right to go in. I believed that then and I believe that now. I think our troops walk on water and I support them completely. I think changing the venue in the war on terror from our country to theirs was a great idea.

Again, I support the war.

But we’re not fighting a war. General Westmoreland and Secretary MacNamara have got us “winning hearts and minds” and that is working just as well as it ever has. Our troops are issued five pound of bullets and 100 pounds of rules of engagement and out they’re sent with all the world watching and waiting to fry them at the first misstep.

We lose an average of two American GIs a day over there and still we continue to “fight” this war with one arm tied behind our back.

The bad guys have pretty much figured out how to kill us at will and still we leave our B52s thousands of miles away tied down to the tarmac. For fear of offending the sensitivities of people who hate us, we send Americans out every day to die when they don’t have to.

And don’t whine about how difficult it is to fight an insurgency. Insurgents are an ancient part of warfare, and countless militaries through history have faced them. Mostly they’ve faced them successfully. Two who haven’t are George III and Lyndon Johnson.

And maybe George W. Bush.

To fight an insurgency, you’ve got to destroy the community and people who are sheltering them. It’s that simple. There’s no other way. There’s no other way. You can’t pass out enough Hershey bars to turn people against them.

When you face bad guys in battle, you’ve got to be a bigger bad guy. The fellow with the biggest fist is the one left standing.

And right now we’ve outlawed our bigger fist.

When one of our convoys is bombed, bomb the neighborhood where it occurred. Yes, “innocent” people might be killed. That’s what happens in war. But after that happens a few times, the neighborhoods will stop tolerating the insurgents and they will lose their base of operation.

When you fear the B52s more than you fear the jihad boys the balance of power is going to shift.

To win a war, you have to fight it.

It’s really not about building schools and clinics, it’s about killing your enemy.

And if we’re not willing to do that, then it is immoral to tread water over there at the cost of two Americans a day. We can ask our servicemembers to die for a cause, but we can’t ask them to die because we can’t think of a better idea.

And we can’t be surprised if recruitment numbers fall off. We can’t be surprised if young men and women look at that mess over there and decide to take a pass – not at the prospect of death, but at the prospect of pointless death. If there’s a fight, Americans will line up to have a piece of it. But if it’s a dog and pony show, Americans would just as soon take a pass.

Instead of unleashing the military and taking the fight to the enemy, we seem more enthusiastic about finding some nitpicky reason to tear our soldiers down. Who would want to sign up when the press and Congress seem intent on ripping our troops apart for the slightest infraction?

The problem is that we are dumb and naive.

We seem to be unaware of what every single war throughout history has been about. We overlook what war means and what it entails. We turn a blind eye to the realities of armed conflict and the price of victory. That’s the dumb part.

The naïve part is the belief that the rules have changed, that there is a new day and the old motives and realities no longer apply. We think that an invading army will ever be seen as anything other than an invading army.

And we misjudge what it takes to defeat an enemy and bring him into subjugation.

And if that’s the case, we don’t belong there. It’s ok to ask America’s military men and women to fight and die, but it’s not ok just to ask them to die. If you’re in the fight, fight.

If you’re not, come home.

We fight wars to win them. If nobody in the administration or at the War College can figure out how to win this, then bring the boys home.

And put them along the Mexican border.


- by Bob Lonsberry


Ellie

[sgt.r.n.davis]

YEAH! I AGREE 100%. LET THEM OFF THE LEASH TO FIGHT OR BRING THEM HOME VERY SOON:emark:

[Namvet67]

I am in complete agreement as well. This has Vietnam written all over it! Turn them loose and get the job done or pack it up and come on home. gbudd

[yellowwing]

WTF is up with Jordan? Their King was born in Amman but raised in the US and Great Britain. He even attended RMA Sandhurst.

They could score some major points and concessions if he would send a Jordanian brigade to at least help clear western Iraq.

[GySgtRet]

The Marine Corps is not an occupying force and should be taken out to do the war on terrorism in other parts of the world.

Just me 2c worth.

Semper Fidelis

[Osotogary]

It's either .."sh*t or get off the pot" as far as I am concerned.

I'm starting to realize that I am a total idiot when it comes to understanding the complexities of the "War on Terrorism" because, according to some, it isn't about terror at all but more about petrol economics and the the control of petrol resources- eg., who controls the source.
Insurgents? Religious war? I don't know about all that. I believe it's just a "turf war" put on by some very slick thugs and henchmen who are using religion, cultural differences and nationalism as a guise for their own power plays. Keeping this in mind, I just don't like seeing Americans lose their life for
someone elses "power play". I don't like to see Americans lose their life period. Anybody or organization that thinks otherwise should be taken to task. If, however, Americans do have to lose their life I would wish for them to do so in a combined and total winning effort protecting our shores or our way of life. To die any other way would be folly.

I need a beer...or a soda.

[hrscowboy]

I totally agree with you men and women on this one, lets either flatten the villages, make it so they have no place to hide, its either that or lets come home..

[Fox 2/23]

There is noone more patriotic than an 18 year old E-1 in my opinion but it is the politicians who tell them where to go and what to do when they get there. Politicians and political appointees often have no idea what they are doing. When things get crappy they can quit, not so the E-1.

I tell you something that bugs me friends. Every day I am bombarded by chickenhawk talk show hosts on my one and only AM radio station. I heard Sean Hannity dismiss Gen. Anthony Zinni as a "left winger". Can you believe that? I'm sick of them all and I have no respect for their boss, King George II. Yes bring them home and if anything have them defend our borders. I'm tired of Dubba Yuh telling us that we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here when he leaves our borders wide open.

Dubya and his shills have been working to convince the public that you can't support the troops if you don't support the administration. So Gen. Zinni does not support our troops? Did Col. David Hackworth not support our troops?

[Joseph P Carey]

Maybe, I took a wrong turn somewhere! Is this the Marine Leatherneck dot com? Or, is it the Jane Fonda Dot Com? Maybe, it is the Cut and Run network, or something like that. From listening to you guys, you would think I was on the Campus of Berkley.

If we allow some thieves and third world radicals to run-us-off again (Vietnam, Labanon, The Miyaguez, The Pueblo, Somalia, even, for Chist sakes, Haiti and Liberia), where do we go from here? Hell, the word is out gentlemen: "You do not have to fight the Americans any more! All you have to do is hide and throw a couple of bombs, and wound a couple of people, and kill a couple, and the USA will fold like a cheap suit, they will bring their tail between their knees, and they will be gone!" Situation normal, the bad guys win! And, the USA is just another Paper Tiger. Disgusting!

[Fox 2/23]

You may want to study the writings of Maj.Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC. I'm sure Hannity would have called him a "left winger" too.

[Osotogary]

I drift that I got, Mr. Carey, is the opposite. No one wants war, or should I say, no one that I know wants war but if there has to be one and we are involved let's kick the livin' beejeezus out of our enemies. Let's do what it takes to win by bending, flexing, breaking the ROE. Let's fight the enemy and not ourselves. Lets not bullsh*t around. Let's fight to win.
I'd also like to see equal, or as close to equal, contibutions, whatever positive contributions they may be, made by all American citizens in this effort to win. I don't see the advertising wheels in spin as they were in WWI or WWII. I don't read, on an equal format, the good things that Ameicans have accomplished in Iran. I don't see positive win effort on a continual basis.
Mr. Carey, the Americans I know fight wars to win but these same Americans grow weary of the dilly-dallying, politically correct, decision making that is costing American lives. Of course the lives that are being lost aren't those of the decision makers and that may be the problem...on both sides. We, as Americans should all fight to win.

[Fox 2/23]

I agree with Osotogary. If this war isn't worth EVERYONE being involved, it isn't worth fighting. I will make no bones about it. I dislike Bush. I believe he made a bad call(at least bad for the people that have to fight). I believe he is wrecking the Constitution. I believe in whacking terrorists wherever you find them but I don't believe in "nation building". The motive for going to Iraq tends to keep changing. Who cares about bringing democracy to Iraq?? It isn't worth my son's life. It wouldn't last anyway. We are US Marines not the Waffen SS. We have the right to question our leaders.

[Joseph P Carey]

For Christ Sakes People, you are Marines! You have one fuction as a Corps, You enforce the policies of the United States Civilian Government.

How many Soldiers and Sailors did we lose on Normandy? How many Marines did we lose on Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, and in Korea, and in Vietnam? If you take off the 400 or 500 people that we lost to heart attacks and traffic accidents, and to suicides in Iraq, there has not been that much blood shed in Iraq when you consider it has been two years, and a Guerrilla war to boot.

My Dad told me there were islands in the South Pacific that they could not shell with Naval Guns, because the Palmolive Soap Company owned the Coconuts trees on the islands, and the company was charging the US government $75.00 a tree destroyed by US Marines and Sailors in combat (the Average Marine only made about $43.00 a month in pay, so you can figure that it was worth it to the cgovernment to kill off two Marines instead of one Coconut tree). That is just the way things are.

The Banana War's in Central America were fought for the benefit of the United Fruit Company, and Chiquita Banana in the 1930's, to keeps profits from going to the locals

We have been the arm of US Policy for our existance. Being a Marine, and being political is not compatable. You are there to fight, if that means you get out in your underwear and carry broom sticks, that is what you do. You are not the National Guard. The only thing that the Marines promise you is that you will fight the battles, and the only thing you owe the Corps is that you win those battles, no matter how restricted they are. Hell, if you do not like the Corps, get out when your enlistment is up, no one is forcing you to stay, as a rule.

Hell, I do not know if I would have made it the full 30 I was hoping for, In truth, I was kind of a S___bird in Garrison, but I was one hell of a Marine in the field. As it was, I had one of my pins knocked out from under me, and that sort of made that argument moot anyhow, but at least I knew what my job was and why I was there as a Marine, maybe you guys have forgotten what you were there for. Yours is not to question orders, but to follow them, no matter how stupid they may seem at the time.

As far as the Waffen SS remark, you had better get checked out on your Marine Corps History Sweetpea, ask any Central American what they think of the US Marines, and you may be very upset at what they think of us, but we aren't there to win any popularity contest, only battles.

Bringing democracy to the Middle east is worth much more in the way of lives than you could imagine.

[Osotogary]

Mr. Carey,
I have no qualls about enforcing the policies of the United States Government, especially if that is my job. I would hope though, that in doing my duty, that those who delegated me to perform those duties would have a winning attitude and provide me with the leadership and supplies to get the job done as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. Fight to win or don't fight at all.
By the way, Mr. Carey, I enjoy your posts. Thank you for your input.

[hrscowboy]

The buttom line is gentlemen we fight a war to win no bars held and thats what these government people need to be told.. We fight to win and win only and No One tells us how to fight it.. We fight to win thats the buttom line and if government dont want it that way then we dont need to be fighting at all... enuff said..