Solo Marines Often Refused Entry to Some D.C. Bars

[thedrifter]

August 6, 2007
Solo Marines Often Refused Entry to Some D.C. Bars

Last month we got a letter from reader Christine, who related the follwing story and asked us to look into it.
I recently moved to Fairfax, VA to live with my parents until my marriage next month to a marine who is stationed at 8th and I Marine Barracks in SE. After their Friday evening parade, many of the guys like to grab a beer or two. This Friday, myself, my fiancee, and five others decided to grab some drinks. We decided to walk down to Pennsylvania Ave. to find a bar that didn't require a taxi ride home. The first place we found was the Hawk N Dove. Not the kind of place I normally would frequent on a Friday night, but it has a small room downstairs with a TV that they can watch sports and drink beer.

As we go in, we were informed by the gentleman checking IDs that "house rules" states that "no marines without dates are allowed in." Apparently, since our group had only two females, only two of the guys were going to be allowed in. Now, I understand that it is common practice to try to keep the male/female ratio somewhat even in a club by not allowing guys in. The Hawk N Dove is not a club. It is crap dive bar with a sketchy ass dance floor that serves disgusting hamburgers. I cannot believe that they do not let people in because of their occupation.

I was more upset that I was the only one who was taken aback by this. My fiancee's friends informed me that this happens quite often -- they are told that because they are marines, they are not allowed in, but other males are. Is this common practice in DC? Does the DCist know of some unofficial list of bars that don't allow members of the military? Should my fiancee invest in a wig to hide the crew cut so he can have a beer three blocks from the capital?

Hawk N' Dove's manager Paul Meagher confirms that this is in fact official policy of his bar, though he clarifies the policy also allows unaccompanied marines to enter if they're in uniform. Meagher said that the policy was first put in place in the 1990s, around the time of the Gulf War, due to a series of incidents inside the bar involving destruction of property at the hands of marines from the nearby Barracks.

"If they behave responsibly, they are welcome," Meagher said. "So we ask them to be in uniform or be with a date, because women seem to calm them down ... There's a boys will be boys kind of thing to the 10th power when they're just out and about. It's amazing how (the policy) works."

Meagher wasn't sure if other bars in the Marine Barracks neighborhood have similar policies, but he thought that a few others might. He also said that the policy wasn't necessarily directed only at the Marine Corps -- admitting that his staff would be hard pressed to tell the difference between marines and members of the Army -- only that with the Marine Barracks so close by, in general they are who the the policy affects.

Do you think this is a reasonable policy for a bar to adopt?

Ellie

[gwladgarwr]

Interesting post - I'm sure SOMEONE has reminded the young lady that 'Marine' is capitalized (as in 'a Marine' or 'some Marines' rather than ' a marine'.)

If this pub has publicly stated a discriminatory policy to the effect that certain individuals will be barred on the basis of their military affiliation, the pub owners are begging for a lawsuit.

Any wannabe with a buzz cut could be taken for a Marine (note the capitalization), or an Army dogface soldier, or sailor; some ignorant civilians coulnd't tell who a Marine was if he got punched in the lip by Chesty himself in his dress blue bravos.

However, any business has the right to refuse service or entry. The only part is, they don't have to give a reason. The moment the establishment singles out someone on the basis of some occupational affiliation - imagined or otherwise - the ambulance chasers will be on their way.

Additionally, they have no G-D RIGHT to ask if a potential customer is military or a Marine, and they DON'T have a right to ask for a military ID (I rarely show mine - try showing it at the 7-11 to buy cigarettes to the illiterate, English-deficient illegal at the counter and you'll see what I mean). They can ask for a valid government-issued ID (driver's license, passport), but that's it.

I've been to the Hawk 'n Dump before - in uniform, and have been there in a suit-n-tie - WITH A SEVERE HORESHOE. Hmmm, not TOO Marine-y. And that was only three years ago.

I know of some of the stunts the pretty boys down at 8th & I pull every now and then, and sometimes they get young and stupid and do some pretty sh***y stuff around that neighborhood (I live in Manassas). They've managed to p*** off some of the neighbors and local businesses over the years when they get rowdy. I hope those folks in that semi-gentrified slum full of riff-raff, crackheads, winos, homeless folks, burglars, muggers, rapists, and other shiftless no-accounts who overwhelming cause the majority of crimes in the area have been held accountable rather than scapegoating America's uniformed finest - anyone from the DC area can testify.

The young lady may also want to remember that the CO at 8th & I also has standing agreements with many of the businesses around the barracks. Some places are off-limits to 8th & I personnel - all unit COs have that discretion. There's a gay bar and a lesbian bar that are both off-limits per the CO of 8th & I, for example (and not because they're afraid their Marines are gay, but because the owners of those bars have asked the CO to bar the barracks Marines from the premises.) All of those businesses around there know they can call up the old man, complain, and get him to issue a standing order to that effect, and some of them have.

Thing is, the idiot owner, in his pea-sized brain, sees a buzz cut, assumes the kid is one of the barracks Marines (who is barred by standing order of the barracks commander from that establishment), and is too stupid to tell the kid he's being barred because of the agreement between the barracks' commander and the pub. (That all changes, of course, if the kid shows up in his uniform since girls love a man in a uniform and that brings in more business as well as stacks the male/female ratio - as if the PFC won't start duking it out in his blues.

Maybe someone should call up the public affairs office at the barracks and ask if there is a standing order barring 8th & I Marines from the Hawk 'N Dove (you know, there are a LOT of senators and Congressmen and their aides who hang at the H & D...maybe some of them would be upset to hear that Marines are being discriminated against.)

If there is no standing order, and the bar owners are discriminating, maybe they should be boycotted and be informed WHY they are being boycotted.

[gwladgarwr]

Interesting post - I'm sure SOMEONE has reminded the young lady that 'Marine' is capitalized (as in 'a Marine' or 'some Marines' rather than 'a marine'.)

If this pub has publicly stated a discriminatory policy to the effect that certain individuals will be barred on the basis of their military affiliation, the pub owners are begging for a lawsuit.

Any wannabe with a buzz cut could be taken for a Marine (note the capitalization), or an Army dogface soldier, or sailor; some ignorant civilians coulnd't tell who a Marine was if he got punched in the lip by Chesty himself in his dress blue bravos.

However, any business has the right to refuse service or entry. The only part is, they don't have to give a reason. The moment the establishment singles out someone on the basis of some occupational affiliation - imagined or otherwise - the ambulance chasers will be on their way.

Additionally, they have no G-D RIGHT to ask if a potential customer is military or a Marine, and they DON'T have a right to ask for a military ID (I rarely show mine - try showing it at the 7-11 to buy cigarettes to the illiterate, English-deficient illegal at the counter and you'll see what I mean). They can ask for a valid government-issued ID (driver's license, passport), but that's it.

I've been to the Hawk 'n Dump before - in uniform, and have been there in a suit-n-tie - WITH A SEVERE HORESHOE. Hmmm, not TOO Marine-y. And that was only three years ago.

I know of some of the stunts the pretty boys down at 8th & I pull every now and then, and sometimes they get young and stupid and do some pretty sh***y stuff around that neighborhood (I live in Manassas). They've managed to p*** off some of the neighbors and local businesses over the years when they get rowdy. I hope those folks in that semi-gentrified slum full of riff-raff, crackheads, winos, homeless folks, burglars, muggers, rapists, and other shiftless no-accounts who overwhelming cause the majority of crimes in the area have been held accountable rather than scapegoating America's uniformed finest - anyone from the DC area can testify.

The young lady may also want to remember that the CO at 8th & I also has standing agreements with many of the businesses around the barracks. Some places are off-limits to 8th & I personnel - all unit COs have that discretion. There's a gay bar and a lesbian bar that are both off-limits per the CO of 8th & I, for example (and not because they're afraid their Marines are gay, but because the owners of those bars have asked the CO to bar the barracks Marines from the premises.) All of those businesses around there know they can call up the old man, complain, and get him to issue a standing order to that effect, and some of them have.

Thing is, the idiot owner, in his pea-sized brain, sees a buzz cut, assumes the kid is one of the barracks Marines (who is barred by standing order of the barracks commander from that establishment), and is too stupid to tell the kid he's being barred because of the agreement between the barracks' commander and the pub. (That all changes, of course, if the kid shows up in his uniform since girls love a man in a uniform and that brings in more business as well as stacks the male/female ratio - as if the PFC won't start duking it out in his blues.

Maybe someone should call up the public affairs office at the barracks and ask if there is a standing order barring 8th & I Marines from the Hawk 'N Dove (you know, there are a LOT of senators and Congressmen and their aides on the Hill who hang at the H & D...maybe some of them would be upset to hear that Marines are being discriminated against.)

If there is no standing order, and the bar owners are discriminating, maybe they should be boycotted and be informed WHY they are being boycotted.

Sgt gw

[ebcole]

I know I belong to the finest fighting force on this planet; (looking forward to finding out about others) We are not rich or likely to be while still on active duty. So I would galdly find a place that shows respect to the forces that allow them the right to be Butt Holes. I spend my money where I am apreciated.

[killerinstinct]

like japan and the japanese only bars..

[rheinmark187]

I shed no tears for her. 8th and I is one of the best duties to be assigned to. It's not good for your career if you are a young 0311, but it's a hell of a lot easier than what fleet Marines are going through elsewhere.

[Kirkpatrick]

I know the Hawk& Dove, and for the most part, it's a place for Capitol Hill Interns to hang out in. For the management of the pub to have this type of policy is absurd.

I own and operate two pubs in Northern VA, and believe you me, Marines are always welcome! The Colors are posted proudly.

Maybe the manager/owner of the Hawk & Dove should come out to my Haymarket location on Sept 1st, we are hosting the Wounded Marines from Bethesda and Walter Reed for a night of fun!

[Alphaonethree]

Semper Fi KirkPatrick. I would put thing into perspective. Marines can get a little wild, So what. If this terd does not want a Marines money then so be it. You should get the word out on this terd to all the Marines in Washington. Boycott his sorry but.

[LeftyCharette]

I know the Hawk& Dove, and for the most part, it's a place for Capitol Hill Interns to hang out in. For the management of the pub to have this type of policy is absurd.

I own and operate two pubs in Northern VA, and believe you me, Marines are always welcome! The Colors are posted proudly.

It wouldnt happen to be kirkpatricks would it?

[Kirkpatrick]

As a matter of fact LeftyCharette, yes it is. Since your in Leesburg, can you make it out to the event I'm hosting on Sept. 1st for the Wounded Marines at my Haymarket location? We have 25 Marines that have accepted our invitation for a night out. It will be an awesome event!!!

[Mikhaelis]

While this policyis unfair and descriminatory it is a private business who reserves the right to serve who it pleases and refuse those it doesn't. On the other hand, Marines have the right to boycott this place and let them edia and everyone else onthe street know this place refuses entry to those who safeguard their "right" to refuse them service. Hopefully they would see a large drop inbusiness if this happens, and not an upswing in business from the lefties and America haters. Then again, if the latter happens, at least you know where your enemies are so you can keep an eye on them.

[MarineWife2008]

Looks like this place is closing its doors...

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/dc/h...edium=facebook

[Mxzero]

Hm, alcohol + Marines = fights. Some people just don't want that trouble or maybe he's had too much of it and Marines started it usually. Not too surprising, there's enough places around any military installation that does the same thing.

[gwladgarwr]

Looks like this place is closing its doors...

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/dc/h...edium=facebook

What's that old '60's song, with the refrain, "Sha-na-na-na-sha-na-na-na-sha-na-na-na-goodbye..." Don't let the door hit you on the busboy on your way out the door. Discriminatory, unpatriotic, military-hating line cooks. Barring a man serving his country but allowing in a civilian male who has never served his country a day in his life, will you?

Lost his lease to another business - too bad, so sad. Guess he'll have to find a cheaper storefront elsewhere. I hear University Ave. in Berkeley has a few openings.

-gwladgarwr

[advanced]

The first time I heard of such treatment toward Marines was in the Nam. I got to go to the big PX in DaNang a couple of time, the one close to Dogpatch. At the PX they wouldn't sell me any Jack because I was a Cpl, seems you had to be a Sgt E-5 to buy anything stronger than beer. I and many other Marines had to pay these air force guys that just hung around preying on us a $ a bottle. So I give this air force E-2 my money and his 4 $ tip.

They said they wouldn't sell hard liquor to us because when Marines drink whiskey they always get drunk, start fights with whoever is around, and tear up the place. I still don't think that's a valid reason to be discriminated against. Too bad I didn't have my squad with me, those rules would have been changed real fast.