American Legion Questions

[bbearmills]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to visit or call the MCL. What about the Amvets? Are they still around? My dad, a WWII vet, was in that years ago.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

The Amvets are still around, yes, but like all these groups, membership is on the decline.

I can't reccommend, highly enough, the Young Marines program. My daughter was a Young Marine in Camp Lejeune when I was stationed there and she absolutely loved it. I really wish there was a Marine Corps League post around me that was close by, I'd join in a heartbeat, but I haven't been able to locate any. If anyone knows of any in Maryland or can put me in touch with somebody, drop me a PM.

[redneck13]

I would suggest that you search any group other than the American Legion, VFW, Etc. If you like to drink and listen to war stories, these are great places. I have belonged to them, except the MCL.....I use to play music in the Legions/VFW'S.....and I heard many stories from older Vet's, that said over and over...."Them Sissy A****Nam Vet's, all they want is something for nothing." This turned me off. I asked the American Legion to represent me. They didn't even pick up my file for a year or more. I was turned onto the PVA....they are the most powerful in the Nation. However, they're not, as of last talk with my rep, there, taking anyone that isn't or doesn't have some sort of spinal cord, head, injury....Due to the Current war.....I'm still represented by them, as I have been with them since, 89.....and they get it done better/faster/and win more cases than any other Veteran org. I know these other's have good intentions, however, they just don't have the expertese, and pull like the PVA....Just my experience's, and by no means, am I trying to degrade them. The VVA, is a close second.
My 2.3c worth.

[bbearmills]

Thanks, several have said basically the same about some of the others. The MCL sounds like a good bet. I just want to find others with some of the same interests and who do good things for the community and the kids/future Marines.

[10thzodiac]

[Snippet]

Smedley Butler on the American Legion:
Proliferating veterans' groups vied with each other for the distinction of adding his name to their letterheads. He tactfully declined invitations to join, offering his view that all such groups "must be nonpolitical, and should never be heard on the floors of Congress." In June, 1923, he sent regrets to the Marine Corps Veterans Association explaining, "I have very decided views on associations, and I am not a member of any but the American Legion, and most inactive, at that-only joining it because General Lejeune requested me to do so." He considered the Legion too political and undemocratic, with leaders who used it as a mouthpiece for big-business interests.

[bbearmills]

[Snippet]

Smedley Butler on the American Legion:
Proliferating veterans' groups vied with each other for the distinction of adding his name to their letterheads. He tactfully declined invitations to join, offering his view that all such groups "must be nonpolitical, and should never be heard on the floors of Congress." In June, 1923, he sent regrets to the Marine Corps Veterans Association explaining, "I have very decided views on associations, and I am not a member of any but the American Legion, and most inactive, at that-only joining it because General Lejeune requested me to do so." He considered the Legion too political and undemocratic, with leaders who used it as a mouthpiece for big-business interests.

Yes, I had read this already while doing research on the A.L. Seeing as how that was from over 80 years ago, I wondered if anyone had insight into how it works in today's world. Thanks for the info, though.

[JinxJr]

Good Grief ! I've been a member of the American Legion most of my life...S.A.L. and as soon as I was eligible, a full member. All Posts may not operate exactly the same way but it isn't a political organization. Sure, they have lobbyists on the National level to protect the interests of Veterans just like big oil has them to protect their interests and it has to be that way with all of the military bashers that are in the Puzzle Palace. On the local level, if they're doing what they should, there are quite a few programs for youth service, community service, Veteran's Services, Americanism, scholarships and, if you have a motorcycle, there are the Legion Riders (ALR)...nothing political about any of that. You get out of anything what you put into it. You can be involved in something to make a difference in somebody's life or, sure, sit at the Bar and swap War Stories. Same song for the VFW. The bigger Posts naturally have more clout / activities in their communities. It's ALL subjective and I'm not selling one or another. I don't care what the politically eccentric Smedley Butler said, go with your gut. The Marine Corps League IMHO is as good as it gets for fraternal vet organizations for a Jarhead but it doesn't mean you won't like another.

Respectfully Rambled...

ME !!!

[maverickmarine]

Yep, Marine Corps League is the way to go. I did the VFW and the American Legion thing too at first. Had a few bad experiences with people there. It seemed that if you didn't serve in WWII, you weren't ****. Not to mention most in my local posts were Army and Navy and didn't care for Marines for some reason. So, I went to where it's all Marines and never looked back. They always send me crap to reactivate my membership but that's not happening.

[gwladgarwr]

I think any of these organizations are worthy of joining and all have their good points and not-so-good points.

I was 2nd vice-commander of my American Legion post for almost three years. The organization overall does some really good work on behalf of veterans, military, their families, and the local community, esp. when working with Congress (yes, Smedley was right).

Unfortunately, membership is on the decline because they have an age image to deal with - most folks, esp. the 'young'uns', think it's full of the old timers trading war stories and getting drunk. There's a lot of that, for sure. The other VSOs have the same problem. None of them have had much success in tapping into the 1.3 million active duty personnel and returning troops in the 18-35 age range, and in my opinion, they haven't been trying hard enough. They work hard to get legislation through for the military, but not enough to do things to appeal to younger vets (paintball night, video game competitions, that sort of thing.) I was the youngest new member at age 35 and youngest post officer they had since they could remember, but everything was geared toward older vets and military dependents (scholarships for high school kids, Toys For Tots, Boy Scouts, Oratorical Contest, Boys/Girls State, etc.) There wasn't much for a 19 year old soldier. All of the VSOs keep missing out on that, including the VFW, Legion, and AMVETS (I'm a member of all three - formerly an MCL member but lost interest - not because I wasn't motivated but because the old timers there couldn't be bothered to welcome a younger Marine.)

Smedley Butler was right: VSOs often get mixed up in politics for money reasons, and any organization will have its own internal politickng. I don't blame him for not joining anything! His perception that such groups are in it for themselves and not for the mission for which they were created is correct far too often than I'd like to admit. I've had fights with the membership and the Executive Committee way too many times and mostly because the old timers wouldn't budge - they tend to be set in their ways and don't want to deal with 'kids'.

And since they are military in nature, they tend to be politically conservative (though by charter and under tax laws, the Legion and VFW are supposed to be apolitical and would lose their non-profit status if they lobby or become partisan.) To say that the Legion, VFW, and other VSOs are essentially Republican mouthpieces is probably close to the truth. However, I don't see Democrats advocating on behalf of the troops anywhere as much as Republicans, so if you're Republican or conservative, you won't mind as much.

If you're a young warrior, you may find it harder to relate to the old timers and the political part - younger vets aren't really interested in politics and legislation, for the most part. They want to party and want a good time - hey, I was 19 years old once. Just take what you want or need from such organizations, and yes, research them by calling local posts or surfing the national headquarters, and see what they have to offer (and what YOU can offer since these are SERVICE organizations, not fraternal organizations.) Better yet, they LOVE a motivated hard charger, and if you volunteer to do a paintball night for the younger vets (and maybe invite some local younger vets who aren't members), you turn a social event into a recruiting event (ask the old timers how to use the event as an opportunity to recruit new, younger members.) If you have young children and are a young married couple or have a young girlfriend/boyfriend, come up with something to appeal to or to include them as well.

Just watch out and don't burn yourself out like I did - these organizations are volunteer supported, yet the majority of the members in all those organizations does not volunteer, and if you step up, they will try to get as much volunteer work out of you. That's how I ended up 2nd Vice Commander, by the way!

So, certainly join the Legion and any other groups where you rate membership (for VFW, you have to provide documentation of a campaign ribbon/medal during a qualifying period as determined by Congress; for the Legion, you must have served at least ONE day on active duty - to include boot camp if you graduated from it - during certain qualifying periods as determined by Congress, and anyone who served since August 2, 1990 to the present, you rate.

If you have a service-related disability, the PVA or DVA would be of interest to you (you don't have to have a disability or be paralyzed, but that is the focus of these two groups, and they would welcome your membership.) AMVETS is still around and does great work.

It's great for networking, mentoring, job leads, resources, college scholarships for vets, etc., but also for the social aspect: no one else can understand veterans better than other veterans, and the old timers, though of a different generation, went before all of us and went through what we go through now. The Moose or the Elks can't offer the same.

If you have any specific questions about joining any of these groups, send me a private message. I'm not a recruiter or service officer - I'm taking a break from being a Legion officer and am just another vet drinking at the bar in the social quarters! I can help with the VFW too, if you want.

Don't let anything I said turn you off to joining anything, and as I said, there are pro/cons to all of them.

Sgt gw

[gwladgarwr]

Yep, Marine Corps League is the way to go. I did the VFW and the American Legion thing too at first. Had a few bad experiences with people there. It seemed that if you didn't serve in WWII, you weren't ****. Not to mention most in my local posts were Army and Navy and didn't care for Marines for some reason. So, I went to where it's all Marines and never looked back. They always send me crap to reactivate my membership but that's not happening.

As I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, the overall mission of all of these groups is great, but when you get to the local/post level, it can get catty at times. I've had some bad experiences with members at the post level (to include getting some members banned, usually SAL members who never served), but I've gotten slighted at the VFW, too. It's usually a generation thing along the lines of "it's a NAM thing you wouldn't understand" or 'you're not a real vet if it ain't WWII/Korea'. Funny that the Vietnam-era vets were often turned away or outright banned from membership from VSOs during the '70's by the Korea/WWII vets who said Vietnam wasn't a 'real' war, and the WWII vets themselves were often turned away by the WWI vets who founded the Legion, and the WWI vets were turned away or rejected by the VFW that was founded by the Spanish-American War vets. When Desert Storm, Beirut (1982), and Grenada came along, those vets who tried to join often got the cold shoulder.

That's not the way to treat a vet. A veteran should know better. I'll be DAMNED if I get dissed by a fellow vet (and even worse by those post members who have NOT served - that's why I transferred out of my old Legion post to another.) All these groups are not [name a war] organization, unless you're VVA or KVA.

I'll tell you, though: even though my first post was named after a Marine killed in the Beirut Embassy bombing, I got a lot of hate for being a Marine, esp. if I came in wearing my blues or alphas (worn for certain events or occasions, not for daily wear, btw.) I had some old AF hater at my old post say I got my horseshoe haircut and wore my blues just to show off (replied that if he ever put his paw up in my face, he'd be pulling back a bloody stump). Wish I had my NCO sword on, dangit. Damn, sometimes jealousy does an ego good! Besides, it's hard to be humble (and hard not to appear to be showing off when you're really not) when you're a Marine.

I'd consider re-joining the MCL when I find the time; I have nothing specifically against the MCL. I don't care which branch anyone served in - it's ALL good. But it does get annoying sometimes when you feel the hate from the other non-Marine services. That's just their envy and insecurity acting up - just take it in stride and tell them that you're sorry they got scared of joining the Marines and ended up scurrying into the Navy recruiter's office.

Sgt gw

[JinxJr]

WOW ... I've never seen a Vet, especially a 'Nam Vet treated that way at either of the Legion Posts I've belonged to. They actively recruited the "younger" guys to keep up with the times and draw more members. There's a lot of parochial banter, service rivalry jokes and the like but never a cold shoulder because of when you served or who you served with. That's INTOLERABLE, not to mention contradictory to the goals of the organization. Maybe that's why some Posts don't do well ? Everybody has their 10% and I'm really sorry for anybody who's been treated that way and enraged at the pathetic personalities that would stoop to that in a VSO.

[gwladgarwr]

WOW ... I've never seen a Vet, especially a 'Nam Vet treated that way at either of the Legion Posts I've belonged to. They actively recruited the "younger" guys to keep up with the times and draw more members. There's a lot of parochial banter, service rivalry jokes and the like but never a cold shoulder because of when you served or who you served with. That's INTOLERABLE, not to mention contradictory to the goals of the organization. Maybe that's why some Posts don't do well ? Everybody has their 10% and I'm really sorry for anybody who's been treated that way and enraged at the pathetic personalities that would stoop to that in a VSO.

Good/bad treatment at the hands of other veterans is different at every post in all the VSOs. The Nam vets who now make up the majority of the membership at most VSOs have from time to time told me (I was too young during the war) how they were treated by the general public as well as by vets from previous generations. Sad to say, but it happened then, and it happens now still. You're right to say that such treatment goes against the very thing the organization is about. But, people are people, and they sometimes treat each other badly.

At my old Legion post, most of the negative (and even threatening) behavior that I got came from those who never served (SAL), though I've met true vets who were SAL members who couldn't join the Legion because of the qualifying dates. If I was ever disrespected by older vets, all I can say is that they, for whatever reason, somehow felt that it was their right to treat others - vets included - in whatever way they felt like. They may have had military discipline instilled in them way back when, but they are still human who will still fall back on human nature. Not saying it's right - just saying they gave in to their human nature.

And you're also right about posts that don't do well in retaining or gaining members. The ones who treat members or potential members poorly lose their members. Who wants to stick around getting crapped on?

Some posts do a better job of recruiting qualifying members of all ages. Some don't even bother recruiting at all, or recruit only those that they want in their clique. So, you can't hold the entire organization accountable if things at post level don't adhere to principles at the national org. level (but then, maybe you can!)

I live right by a Guard unit that was deployed for 16 months in Afghan. At my old Legion post, another member and I raised a motion to pay the first year's membership of anyone in that unit (at $20 per.) That post was making good money yet wasting it on trivial stuff or on causes that already receive post funding (like the Scouts who get free hall rental for WEEKLY meetings plus extra money for projects.) The reasoning for offering to pay for free membership was financially sound in that, by sheer numbers, not all 175 members of the unit would take the post up on the offer, even though the post could easily afford $3500. If only twenty Guardsmen accepted, that would only be $400. Well, during that membership meeting, all I heard was that they didn't want to spend money on deserving military personnel and that they didn't want to make a small investment in raising membership. The motion was voted down. Sorry, I thought I was at a Legion hall and not a Jane Fonda antiwar protest. And the ones opposing were never regularly seen at meetings.

I left that post about six months later, btw. I'm now a member at post that actually WANTS more members, regardless of age! And I'm still a VFW member at a nice post (though the old timers still do get a little grouchy. )

A good gauge by which to measure a post's dedication to its mission is to see who and how many shows up to montly meetings and who are the benficiaries of its funding projects, not who talks the loudest at the social quarters bar. If you see fellow vets, esp. in the social quarters, mistreating each other, which I have personally seen and been the target of, unfortunately, it could be a good sign that the leadership of the post is neglecting its members/membership and not sticking to its mission. In the case of VSOs, it's for caring for the vets, their families, the community, and of course, America. When that doesn't seem to be happening, you can either try to help turn it around, or not join.

Aside from petty in-fighting in such orgs, members feeling neglected can be bad PR, and word-of-mouth spreads. That's not what VSOs with declining membership need right now. You may not want to be in the military for the rest of your life, but it would be nice to stay for a long time in a place where vets can share fellowship and comradeship in a common experience.

Sgt gw

[10thzodiac]

After release from active duty and reporting into my in-active Marine district, the Gunny there told me, "you probably want nothing to with the Marines now, but consider joining the Marine Corps League."

At one of my first slob-jobs a 164th Infantry, Guadalcanal army veteran almost got me to join the VFW until he started that raffle ticket sh!t. I was so ****** poor I didn't have a pot to pee in or a window to trow it out, I said no thank you.

My Marine "Peleliu" cousin has tried a couple of times to get me to join the American Legion.

A few years back at the "Moving Wall", there was a Marine who was the local VFW commander trying to get me to join as they were hurting for members. This Marine had bullet holes all over him and believe me he was far from being the sharpest tool in the shed.

What gets me nauseated, is anytime a president needs a receptive audience the first place they go is to these organizations who give him a standing ovation at the same time government is taking benefits away from the veterans they represent.

Smedley wasn't stupid and neither am I ! All these veterans organizations are nothing more than mouthpieces for big business and an excuse for a bunch of alcoholics to get together and wear their medals and parade around showing off. How cheap we sell ourselves.

Yeah, yeah, they do some good, but you will never see them out on the street protesting the unfairness how veterans are treated.

They should of been picketing Walter Reed !

Don't kid yourselves, they loved to control you while you were in the service and they want to control you when you are out too.

Lastly, if they really had the veterans best interest in mind, I'd be first in line to join !

I hope this didn't hurt to many brains.

[jetdawgg]

Moreover, ever notice how few African American Marines are enjoying the excitement?

Never in my life have I been approached to join regardless if the individual knew how I felt politically. I used to live less than a mile from the Legion. What a joke.

[Goose]

I was a member of the Marine Corps League for a few years. They didn't do much. I joined the American Legion and started a Sons of the American Legion Squadron in my town. I love it. I've held offices for the past 5 years, I've held District & State Offices for the SAL. Our squadron does a lot for local vets, we send them food anf visit them in nursing homes along with too many other things to mention. Some Posts are better then others. If you have any questions I would be happy to help.