Extraordinary document from the Corps' war in Vietnam

[vannc75]

So it is VERY evident this is all a farse ... but does anyone know why/how it started? Fact is they are actually reading this and passing it as truth in the Marine Corps. I just graduated IULC and this story was read during a warriors night dinner. After a little research I quickly realized it was fake and asked one of our instructors about it. With a coy smile he told me to do a little more searching and then e-mail him with what I found - specifically about the name Blackburn and the origin of the story. Anyone know more about this Seems a little odd to me - especially since our Corps has more than our fair share of true heroics without having to make up any.

Semper Fi

[Lynn2]

So it is VERY evident this is all a farse ... Fact is they are actually reading this and passing it as truth in the Marine Corps.

Semper Fi

Not sure both of those statements can be true.


I have run across this write up before. Yes at some level it is funny. An "opposite world" where left is now right and up is now down. Everything that would be done is done in the opposite way with the opposite results.


But taking this as true as so many seem to do is an insult. Its an insult to every reconner we sent out that never came back and every Team we sent out that never came back.

For some to think that the war of the VN reconner was dozens and dozens of NVA throwing down their weapons and giving up makes a mockery of what actually happened.

An insult to what actually happened on the ground both for the reconners and those tough focks we fought.

Sad, truly sad that so many think it was this way.

[Lynn2]

"I just graduated IULC and this story was read during a warriors night dinner"

Vannc75, exactly how was this read at Warrior Night? As a joke, as a quiz for the students to see if it was real, or as the read deal?


And look I am sorry I have just read all the comments on the thread. I did not realize that so many experienced Marines would look at this and take it seriously.

I just have no idea how anyone could spend 30 days, not 30 years, in the Corps and not see this as a flaming joke.

Do people really think it was this way? Do they really think that the first thing a small Recon Team would do when sighting an overwhelming enemy force would be to turn their radio off?

This is not about 12 gage vs 16 gage BAR's vs carbines or whether a certain person can be found as having been in the Marines or not.


This is about common sense and a tiny understanding of what a real mission and a real fire fight for a Recon team is like.

Nothing like the write up that is for sure.

[DocGreek]

Lynn, and Van...PLEASE, when you get a chance...completely fill out your profiles....THANK YOU!!.....DOC

[brian0369]

This discussion (the Blackburn story) just came up with some of my Marines. As soon as I heard the conversation, I knew who they were talking about, as I first saw those documents as a young Corporal, and several times again over the years.

But, here is the Paul Harvey on it. A few years ago when I was stationed at Quantico I decided to get the full skinny and researched all the names mentioned in the documents (not too hard, since the full names, service numbers, and other information are on the documents). Not surprisingly, except for Blackburn, none of the Marines named ever existed, or at least didn't serve as Marines, including Colonel White. Alvin Blackburn, as posted by a member earlier, was an admin Marine who spent a short time in Vietnam at the Regt. and MAF level. He was discharged as an admin warrant officer in the 70's, after making unauthorized travel to the states while on leave from Okinawa, and getting in some civilian trouble while AWOL. That's a pretty interesting story too, though the outcome wasn't stated in his record, but I'm afraid I'd be violating the Privacy Act conditions of the access I had at the time to give details like that. Anyway, that's the real story. After finding out these facts, my own opinion as to the origin of this story is that Blackburn probably wrote this himself as a pure joke or for some sick self-aggrandizing joke, probably after his time in Vietnam, and it just got passed around, or was found and grew legs like so many sea stories do.

Heck, I once listened to a Marine tell a detailed story about an accident with an M2 firing off the side of an LSD, with every technical detail correct except the time frame, ship, unit and the Marines' names. How would I be the judge of that as the recipient of the story? Because it actually had happened to 3 Marines from my company, word for word as the Corporal told it. He thought it was such a good sea story that he appropriated for his own in perfect detail when he heard it and made it his own, only to be called out on it four years and a few thousand miles later. So, doesn't surprise me a bit how even fantastic stories like Blackburn somehow keep going.

Semper Fi!

[Lynn2]

Hard to believe that an admin guy without first hand experience could have done this by himself. As already stated, he got 100% of everything wrong. And I think you would have to know what teams would have really done in order to get 100% of everything wrong.

Just by accident you would think that he would have gotten one or two things correct.

My guess is that he had help. From someone with real time experience.

Someone with a clue as to how the real NVA would have fought and how a real USMC Recon team would have fought.

Throwing up their arms and giving up to a much smaller team being a good example of how the NVA did not fight.

[USMC Recon]

I just joined this forum after a friend called my attention to this particular thread. After reading it, I'm wondering if this is someone's idea of a joke.

I was in 1st Recon is Vietnam in 67-68 and I never heard of anything like this, either while in country or at Recon reunions after. Something this "heroic" would have gotten around the Recon Associations and it would have been talked about. I know of only one Recon combat parachute drop and that was overnight 2-3 Sep 1967. On that mission, Gunny Walter Webb led Recon Team Club Car on a parachute insert into Happy Valley (my good friend, HM-2 Mike Laporte is still unaccounted for from that mission. Even on that one, it was done just to say it had been done. There were 3-4 other Recon teams already in the valley acting as pathfinders for the drop.

In late 1968, there were no BARs in Recon (or in 1967 for that matter). We didn't even have 30-06 ammo in the Marine supply chain. Only the Vietnamese used M-1s and occasionally a BAR. They didn't like it because it was so big, heavy, and hard for them to shoot.

I'm afraid that, without seeing any official and certified after action reports, casualty reports, medical logs, flight logs from the drop aircraft, or authenticated legal documents about this incident, I find it to be questionable.

Just my thoughts..............

[USMC Recon]

I forgot to add.......there is just so much wrong with what is laid out in the original "documents" that, even had I not been in Recon in Vietnam through the summer of 1968 and knew what Recon did and didn't do, I would have found the entire chain of events as related to be laughable.

Rather than go into detail on every single thing that doesn't fit, suffice it to say that nothing in it passes the sniff test.

[montana]

but they did have 30-06 ammo...in 1969 our company CO had a 30 call with the CP...and after i returned from my stay on the hospital ship repose...they had lost track of my M14...i was offerd a BAR...after hefting the thing i turned the offer down ...a cupple days later they found my 14

[CH53MetalMan]

USMC Recon

Can you recall what aircraft was used for the parachute drop you mentioned?

OV-10 Bronco perhaps?

[FistFu68]

Don't give a Fuc what Weapons Ammo or What Ev,this Sea Story write up is a Fucing LIE

[USMC Recon]

Hello Montana. How long were you a patient on the USS Repose? I'm wondering which unit you served in in 1969. Were you in Recon?

As I mentioned, by 1968, the only only 30-06 weapons I'm aware of in Vietnam were in the hands of the Vietnamese. Oops....forgot; the Australians had them as well...sorry. The Army had used them on their early helicopter gunships several years earlier as had Marine advisors but by 68, they were gone from the Marine TO&E.

Perhaps your CO got the old Browning M-1919 machine-gun from the ARVN. In 1st Recon, we were allowed only one M-14 per team and the only way we were able to justify that was because, at that time, no rifle-grenade launching cartridge was available to us for the M-16. We almost never used the rifle-grenades but it was a good excuse to be alble to carry an M-14.

Semper fi......

[USMC Recon]

USMC Recon

Can you recall what aircraft was used for the parachute drop you mentioned?

OV-10 Bronco perhaps?

No. The OV-10A Bronco didn't show up in Nam until at least late 1968. RT ClubCar jumped from an Army C-7 Caribou.

[USMC Recon]

Don't give a Fuc what Weapons Ammo or What Ev,this Sea Story write up is a Fucing LIE

Bottom line is that I believe you are spot-on with your assessment of the subject sea story.

Semper fi.....

[Lynn2]

Bottom line is that I believe you are spot-on with your assessment of the subject sea story.

Semper fi.....

The question is not is this true? It is not.

The question is not could this be true? It could not.

The question is how could any Marine or FMF Doc read this and think otherwise?

It just begs the question as to basic common sense and a little understanding of Marine history or Recon history or Vietnam history.

I realize not everyone was a VN reconner but you should not have to be to spot this funny BS at a first glance.

There was a USMC recon jump in 1966. It happened at the same time as the Howard Patrol.

In 1966 we did have a BAR or two that could be taken out on special recon missions. It rarely was. But it could have been. But not on any jump that is for sure.

HM2 Mike Laporte? Its sad how this Reconner has been treated by the Corps.

Even the suggestion that someone would wait and then vol for a jump in the deep bush of ICorps just so he could go awol is so beyond stupid that it reeks of an organization covering its azz for a jump that should have never taken place.

Don't those idiots realize he could have just walked out the front gate and hitched a ride if he wanted to go over the hill? Idiots.