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  1. #1

    Exclamation Big Bullet Blues

    Big Bullet Blues
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    February 2, 2007: Troops from the U.S. Army and Marine Corps are still complaining about the "inadequate stopping power" of the 5.56mm round used in the M-16 family of assault rifles. Last year, the army did a study of current 5.56mm M855 round, in response to complaints. Troops reported many reports where enemy fighters were hit with one or more M855 rounds and kept coming. The study confirmed that this happened, and discovered why. If the M855 bullet hits slender people at the right angle, and does not hit a bone, it goes right through. That will do some soft tissue damage, but nothing immediately incapacitating. The study examined other military and commercial 5.56mm rounds and found that none of them did the job any better. The study concluded that, if troops aimed higher, and fired two shots, they would have a better chance of dropping people right away. The report recommended more weapons training for the troops, so they will be better able to put two 5.56mm bullets where they will do enough damage to stop oncoming enemy troops. Marines got the same advice from their commanders. But infantrymen in the army and marines both continue to insist that the problem is not with their marksmanship, but with the 5.56mm bullet. Marines say they have used captured AK-47 rifles in combat, and found that the lower velocity, and larger, 7.62mm bullets fired by these weapons were more effective in taking down enemy troops.

    The army study did not address complaints about long range shots (over 100 meters), or the need for ammo that is better a blasting through doors and walls. The army had been considering a switch of a larger (6.8mm) round, and the Special Forces has been testing such a round in the field. But a switch is apparently off the table at the moment. The army report was not well received by the troops, and there is still much grumbling in the ranks over the issue.

    Ellie


  2. #2
    Marine Free Member bigdog43701's Avatar
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    Head Shots


  3. #3
    Interesting timing on this thread...
    Just three days ago, I was "doodling" on a note pad, and decided to draw the profiles of various military bullets, for comparison's sake.
    Included were, from smallest to largest,...
    .223 (5.56mm)...M-16
    .308 (7.62mm)...M-14
    .50 (50 cal. )...M-2
    1.00 (100 cal.)..Gatling gun

    Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but how much more obvious can it be?
    I can't remember how many times Vietnam veterans have told me about shooting the enemy with three, four, five rounds...and they kept coming!
    Yet, in my studies of military history, the recollections of the massive tissue damage inflicted by the .76 cal "Brown Bess"...the .58 cal Minie ball....the 45-70 "Springfield".....the .50 cal "Ma- deuce". These are flesh-ripping, bone-crushing, harbingers of death! The 'hydro-static shock' alone...of these rounds, is often enough to kill or incapacitate the enemy.
    In my humble opinion...any bullet calibre that starts with ".22" was made for shooting squirrels, gophers, and rabbits.
    drumcorpssnare


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by drumcorpssnare
    Interesting timing on this thread...
    Just three days ago, I was "doodling" on a note pad, and decided to draw the profiles of various military bullets, for comparison's sake.
    Included were, from smallest to largest,...
    .223 (5.56mm)...M-16
    .308 (7.62mm)...M-14
    .50 (50 cal. )...M-2
    1.00 (100 cal.)..Gatling gun

    Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but how much more obvious can it be?
    I can't remember how many times Vietnam veterans have told me about shooting the enemy with three, four, five rounds...and they kept coming!
    Yet, in my studies of military history, the recollections of the massive tissue damage inflicted by the .76 cal "Brown Bess"...the .58 cal Minie ball....the 45-70 "Springfield".....the .50 cal "Ma- deuce". These are flesh-ripping, bone-crushing, harbingers of death! The 'hydro-static shock' alone...of these rounds, is often enough to kill or incapacitate the enemy.
    In my humble opinion...any bullet calibre that starts with ".22" was made for shooting squirrels, gophers, and rabbits.
    drumcorpssnare
    I can read Your minds

    Ellie


  5. #5
    Marine Free Member bigdog43701's Avatar
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    the purpose of combat is to close with and DESTROY your enemy's will to fight...NOT pi#s him off. go back to 7.62 and bring back the M-14's.


  6. #6
    Maybe some of our little "diaper-headed" friends need a taste of the 106 recoilless "BEEHIVE" round. That would be SWEET!
    drumcorpssnare


  7. #7
    Marine Free Member bigdog43701's Avatar
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    snare...stop it...i'm starting to get sexually excited!!!!!


  8. #8
    Question_______________Do they still the beehive round in arty?


  9. #9
    ggyoung- Not sure. If it's not still in use, it should be. The topic brings back fond memories of when I commanded a 6-gun battery of black-powder front stuffers. We fired double canister at fifteen manequins placed 50yds. down range. We still laugh at the results, 12 yrs. later!
    However, the carnage inflicted on the Confederates (Pickett's Charge) by Union guns loaded with double canister, was no laughing matter, I'm sure.

    drumcorpssnare


  10. #10
    U.S. Marine Corps Designated Marksman Rifle

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Ma...Marksman_Rifle

    Ellie


  11. #11
    Marine Free Member Bozooka's Avatar
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    Bring back the M14 7.62 Full Metal Jacket. Best Rifle a Marine could carry!
    Accurate at 500 yards without a scope! I had an M 14 when I first got to Viet-Nam, they made me trade it in for an M16. Worst mistake I ever made.


  12. #12
    Marine Free Member bigdog43701's Avatar
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    hey snare...how about this...bring back the ONTOS. 6-106 with beehive for the "diaper heads".


  13. #13
    Marine Free Member Bozooka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdog43701
    hey snare...how about this...bring back the ONTOS. 6-106 with beehive for the "diaper heads".
    Better yet! Lets start using Napalm again . I would love to see the diapers on their heads roast.... They like blowing themselves up in
    ah la's name. well let them go out in style...


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ggyoung
    Question_______________Do they still the beehive round in arty?
    Yes they do...


  15. #15
    Marine Free Member bigdog43701's Avatar
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    bazooka...i like how you think.


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